Knife Master Rogue Suggestions / Advice

[Daemongrave]

Hello, I am pretty much new here and friend reads the Pathfinder Books a lot (you know who you are "most likely reading this").

So far I have a level 3 Rogue, archtype Knife Master Tiefling. Suppose to be more of a pyschopath in love with knives I guess you could say to put it blunt. And I will not take offense to suggestions, in fact that is what I am looking for so any flaws in my theory or way of thinking please assist whenever possible. Main part is to get suggestions on where to go from here since I will most likely multiclass once I level up again.

I have the ability sneak stab which grants me 1d8 instead of 1d6 for using dagger related weapons. I also heard when flanking I deal sneak attack damage along with weapon damage. I am also level 3 Rogue and have dirty fighting, better yet I have two-weapon fighting, so if calculations are correct and this is part I most likely am wrong and need help. If I so happen land both attacks with daggers the damage would it be:

(2d4 + 4d8)+2

seeing how one dagger when flanking can deal:

(1d4 + 2d8)+1

If correct, that is great and would like advice and suggestions to where to proceed from here. Should I multiclass? Is there better weapons? etc.

[Hawktitan]

Yes, that is correct assuming your strength is 10.

There aren't better weapons for you, the archetype is really all about daggers.

I assume you have weapon finesse? As to where you can go from here for combat related feats - shadow strike to help against concealment so you don't hit like wet noodles when it occurs. Outflank is pretty good too if you can get a buddy. Weapon Focus if you have nothing more pressing you want.

[Daemongrave]

Hawktitan wrote:

Yes, that is correct assuming your strength is 10.

There aren't better weapons for you, the archetype is really all about daggers.

I assume you have weapon finesse? As to where you can go from here for combat related feats - shadow strike to help against concealment so you don't hit like wet noodles when it occurs. Outflank is pretty good too if you can get a buddy. Weapon Focus if you have nothing more pressing you want.

I'll check those out, thank you.

[Squeakmaan]

Knifemaster is one of my favorite archetypes, so i'm happy to lend whatever suggestions i might have. Bleeding sneak attack might be a decent rogue trick to pick up.

[Squeakmaan]

Depending on how much you want to work with things like bluff and diplomacy, there's a series of feats in Ultimate Combat I think that allow you to do extra damage after altering someone's attitude using diplomacy.

[Joey Virtue]

I would suggest you take levels in Vivisectionist for the rest of your levels. Because you get everything you need from the rogue plus all kinds of great alchemist stuff

[shaxberd]

Quote:

River Rat (Marsh or River)

Benefits: You gain a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls with a dagger and a +1 trait bonus on Swim checks. Swim is always a class skill for you.

This trait should be pretty good for you. It only applies to daggers, but you get the bonus all the time instead of just when you're flanking. Of course, it only works with daggers, not kukris or the like.

Beyond that, just get +1 Agile Daggers as soon as you can. Agile will allow you to apply your DEX modifier for damage instead of STR.

[Drannor Hawksley]

I believe this has been noted, but if you can use Ultimate Combat, you can pick up levels in the Fighter archetype, Brawler.

Punch daggers qualify for close weapon group for fighter, and for your 1d8 dagger sneak attacks from knifemaster.

Couple it with fighter feats, and you can pump up your to hit and base damage pretty well, making those flanking dual wielding attacks hurt quite a bit more.

This is all supposing you want to be a combat rogue though, and it seems that you have a 10 strength, so other options may be more beneficial.

[Lune]

Take 3-4 levels of Weapon Master Fighter. 3rd gives you 2 feats and Weapon Training. 4th gives you 3 feats, weapon training and ability to take Weapon Specialization. I would recommend 4th.

I would also recommend taking Piranha Strike for one of those feats.

[Daemongrave]

Squeakmaan wrote:

Depending on how much you want to work with things like bluff and diplomacy, there's a series of feats in Ultimate Combat I think that allow you to do extra damage after altering someone's attitude using diplomacy.

Well, I joined the thieves guild so his sleight of hand is 10 and I would have to check again since I think my bluff and diplomacy are around 2 or 4.

[Daemongrave]

Joey Virtue wrote:

I would suggest you take levels in Vivisectionist for the rest of your levels. Because you get everything you need from the rogue plus all kinds of great alchemist stuff

I must look at that then, when not using daggers I am quite fond of alchemist fires, tanglefoot bags, and my new love of the pellet grenade.

[Daemongrave]

Drannor Hawksley wrote:

I believe this has been noted, but if you can use Ultimate Combat, you can pick up levels in the Fighter archetype, Brawler.

Punch daggers qualify for close weapon group for fighter, and for your 1d8 dagger sneak attacks from knifemaster.

Couple it with fighter feats, and you can pump up your to hit and base damage pretty well, making those flanking dual wielding attacks hurt quite a bit more.

This is all supposing you want to be a combat rogue though, and it seems that you have a 10 strength, so other options may be more beneficial.

If it gives a me a better chance to hit I check that out as well.

[Dread Knight]

His friend here and since I don't think he'll have time to post at the moment. His character is for PFS and already has two traits so if he gets more it'll take a feat.

His stats are STR10 DEX17 CON17 INT13 WIS13 CHA8 and he is CN

He has Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse from the rouge talent, and TWF. His traits are Dirty Fighter and Child of the streets.

We have access to most of the hardcover books(Advanced, Ultimates,ISWG) along with Dragon Empires Primer, Blood of Angels, Demon Hunters Handbook, PFS Field Guide, and IS Magic but the last probably won't help.

Looking through the books I saw the Two Weapon Warrior archetype and it look like it might be good but what do the rest of you think?

[XMorsX]

Tieflings have an SLA that will let you qualify for Arcane Strike. 4 lvls of Weapon master fighter will give you a major bonus, especially when you couple weapon training with gloves of dueling. If you do this, change your weapons to kukris. Brawler is a better choice, if you can buy a custom equivalent of gloves of dueling for the attack bonus you desperately need.

Vivisectionist is flat-out better than rogue, to the point that makes the Rogue obsolete. From an optimization standpoint the best thing to do is continue with VIvisectionist and never look back, but this is not the kind of advice I believe that it should be given when someone wants to make a stronger Rogue.

Piranha Strike is only good when you cannot sneak attack, so I am hesitant to suggest it.

[XMorsX]

Two weapon warrior is a great archetype for someone who wants to play a TWF fighter. It is not really good as a dip though, as its main perk is its ninth lvl ability.

If he has Combat Expertise, taking Improved Trip, Fury's Fall and Greater Trip is a must.

Other than that, Arcane Strike is a good choice, as is Piranha Strike only after he has gloves of dueling and an adequete attack bonus to support it.

Combat Expertise also opens the road to two weapon feint and improved two weapon feint, which is a nice way to get sneak attacks when you cannot flank.

He has the Scout archetype right? If he has not and it is not PFS, talk with your GM in order to add it. It stacks with Knife Master.

So to sum up:
Two weapon feint
Improved two weapon feint
Improved Trip
Fury's Fall
Greater Trip
Shadow Strike
Arcane Strike
Weapon Specialization
Improved Critical
Piranha Strike
Iron Will

With 4 lvls of weapon master fighter you can have up to Greater Trip from the above recommendations.

The first lvl of fighter will give martial weapon proficiency. Make kukri your weapon of choice. Make them agile asap.

From the rogue talents, I like offensive defence and weapon training (kukri). Do not forget combat trick and underhanded. You can even take Ninja Trick: Feat. This and combat trick will be really useful as all the above feats I mentioned (except improved critical, piranha strike and iron will) should be obtained asap. Resiliency is also pretty nice.

From the advanced rogue talents, you cannot go wrong with Crippling Strike and Opportunist. Before them though you need Skill Mastery for Bluff and feint. UMD, Acrobatics and Stealth are nice additions. Other good advanced talents include Hunter’s Surprise, Hard to Fool and of course Feat.

[Joey Virtue]

Nevermind on my advice Vivisectionist is banned in PFS

[Hawktitan]

Dread Knight wrote:

His friend here and since I don't think he'll have time to post at the moment. His character is for PFS and already has two traits so if he gets more it'll take a feat.

His stats are STR10 DEX17 CON17 INT13 WIS13 CHA8 and he is CN

He has Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse from the rouge talent, and TWF. His traits are Dirty Fighter and Child of the streets.

We have access to most of the hardcover books(Advanced, Ultimates,ISWG) along with Dragon Empires Primer, Blood of Angels, Demon Hunters Handbook, PFS Field Guide, and IS Magic but the last probably won't help.

Looking through the books I saw the Two Weapon Warrior archetype and it look like it might be good but what do the rest of you think?

I think most people are recommending that you only get at most 4 levels of fighter, picking up an archetype that essentially gives you weapon training and you can pick up weapon specialization, then going back into rogue. Two weapon warrior makes you wait until level 5 for weapon training, so you are basically looking at Weapon Master or Brawler archetypes. Also note that weapon training opens up Gloves of Dueling.

Unless he wants to switch to Fighter for the rest of his PFS career in which case Doublestrike from Two Weapon Warrior makes a nice capstone ability.