A problem player


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talbanus wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
talbanus wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Netopalis wrote:

Heh, Beardy is one of my players. It's all joking between friends. :P

And I'm not scary. At least, not until the scenario gives me an elder lightning elemental. Then...well, let's just say that there were 4 BOL scrolls used and one Raise Dead spell used at the end of the scenario.

Hey you were scary waking me up from a nap at Gencon!!!!!!

No, YOU were the scary one! I walked into my hotel room and there was somebody I didn't know (or actually did, but didn't know who it was) asleep in my bed! I'd say that'd give anybody a start.

Let me get this straight? You were scared a female was in your bed?
If he's married, engaged, or has a long time significant other of some type, he damn well better have been scared! Those are the types of happenings that get a guy dismembered!
hehe ... nothing out of the ordinary happened.. and it was alll innocent
Yeah, so many of my ex's would have believed that coming from the mouth of 'the other woman'. XD

doesn't understand why you speak this way ... for she is an innocent bunny

Liberty's Edge

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:


doesn't understand why you speak this way ... for she is an innocent bunny

<Strongly suspects there is more than meets the eye to this innocent bunny>

Also, sadly, in the Court of Jealous Significant Others, I find one is almost always 'guilty until proven innocent'. XD

In other news, this thread has good suggestions for dealing with a particular type of problem player. Our local community has one of these, and the venture officers have taken some very good steps to alleviate the issues. Hopefully as the individual matures, there'll be an 'epiphany moment'.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

We've had a longtime member of our community who exhibits many symptoms suggestive of a spectrum diagnosis that I am not qualified to make.

Sometimes very active management of a player's interaction with their table can help things a lot. Just try not to be That Jerk while you do it. Catch me at a con some year and ask me about how terrible it is to feel like being That Jerk That Time actually created a net beneficial outcome.

Liberty's Edge

I think everyone has dealt with this type of situation in PFS. It's going to happen, and it cannot be avoided. That doesn't mean it can't be changed.

OP, attempt to work with the player in question (talking in person tends to yield more results as the people interacting can pick up on a tone where as just a bunch of text you can't or are led to assume). After that, try and give them a little time to adjust and try to be aware of the issues.

If nothing seems to change, and you are hosting the event.. if you had to choose between losing many, or one, which would you choose? Ultimately that may be the decision that has to be made.

Grand Lodge

The Human Diversion wrote:
3) He "mysteriously" gets over 20 on his initiative check on a highly regular basis. (anecdotal, I know)

I got a bit lost in this thread, so am unsure if this has already been addressed, but here's what I have to offer.

I've GM'd numerous groups and have had occasion to deal with at least one particularly consistent and aggressive cheater. This individual exhibited many of the same behaviours as your player. In my opinion they stem from a severe unconscious lack of self-esteem mixed with a very concious over-inflated ego designed to cover their own feelings of inadequacy, and the cheating is a major symptom. They have to be successful in their own eyes and the eyes of the group or their false sense of ego is destroyed. Also, by ensuring that they always go first, they work to retain the spotlight and have the greatest chance of being the one to 'win' every battle (especially if they also cheat on their attack and damage rolls).

Trying to speak directly with a player of this nature should always be attempted, as per rules and social good grace, but don't expect it to work as they will lie about what they are doing.

Accordingly the next step is to figure out how they are cheating. Usually this will be done by rolling unobserved, covering the result with their hand, or rolling then quickly scooping up the result before it can be noticed. Feel free to enlist other players you trust in monitoring this, as then you have more opinions to rely on than your own. Players like this will also exploit times when your attention is elsewhere, so extra pairs of eyes will catch them quicker.

Once you have identified the method, stop it. Clearly indicate that rolls must be made visibly, the dice should not be covered by the hand, and that the dice should be left lie in the open until verified. Indicate that any deviation from this will require a re-roll. If the player then begins to exploit that as a way to get free re-rolls (and they probably will) ask them to leave the game for repeatedly violating the stated rules (or just say that from then on any violations will be counted as a 1 result, rather than a reroll - they will hate that).

Usually a player of this nature will get in a huff, and knowing they are caught, and likely start to avoid your table in future, seeking other GMs who aren't on to their tricks. By sharing information with other PFS GMs in your area you can all be on alert, and likely, knowing they can't "play the way they like" (someone who considers cheating moral, usually has well developed denial mechanisms) will stop showing up to PFS events, effectively banning themselves.

Honestly (and this is an actual rule in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying) making open rolling, no hand covers, and leaving the dice out until verified, is just a good blanket rule for any table, and declaring it consistently can sometimes head off cheaters before they get a chance to test you.

Ultimately, don't expect to be able to change this player, just work to stop them from being able to cheat.

There are also some good online guides for cheating styles (good from GMs to be aware of) and handling it. Here's one: http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=491#tips

Players like this should be pitied, as they believe roleplaying is something you 'win' at, violating every principle of the hobby. But at the sametime, their willful breaching of the rules for their own pleasure destroys everyone else's good time, so it's our duty as GMs to shut them down and, if they won't change, get them out of the game.

Oh, as an added note, definitely take the time to audit this player's character sheet. In my experience they will have also fudged the math to improve their character and are counting on no one checking.

Grand Lodge

Mike Brock has made it clear that event organizers have the right to ban problem players from their events. Cheaters, physically threatening, mentally abusive, and those who drive other players away from your event are all types of problem players.

Give the player a chance to correct their behaviour, of course. Involve the local venture officer if you want. But don't let one player cost you others.

Mike has also made it clear that a venture officer does not have the right to ban a player from their (sub)region. It is up to each event organizer to determine for their venue.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
talbanus wrote:

Beard, Morph,HOW IS:

Well, boss fights do sometimes tend to end in the round that I get to act. *whistles innocently*

Hey, it's okay. My Magus occasionally rolls a 1. You might get a turn.

FUN FOR THE REST OF THE TABLE?

I think for the most part take some of that with a grain of sand ... I've noticed that attitudes and actions are a LOT bigger online.

I know it's been a long time since I posted this, but I felt like I should amend that yes, this was facetious. My Magus isn't that powerful. Yes, she does more damage than anybody else at her tables, but that's her job, the same way that the wizard's job is to mess them up with magic, the fighter's job is to take hits, and the cleric's job is to reattach my limbs and/our soul after I crit the boss for 40% of his hp and he decides to full-attack the squishy in melee range... :)

I've never had people complain that I'm stealing the spotlight. I try very hard to make sure I'm a team member, not a one-man-band.

Dark Archive

I wish I could say the same about it not miffing other people. I've been pretty much asked never to play my barbarian again due to its habit of red misting everything it touches.


The Beard wrote:
I wish I could say the same about it not miffing other people. I've been pretty much asked never to play my barbarian again due to its habit of red misting everything it touches.

You could just sit out the first round or two of combat. "No, no, Mongo not feeling the moment. Mongo must contemplate past transgressions first." <twelve seconds pass> "Okay, Mongo ready to be angry now."

Grand Lodge 4/5

The Morphling wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
talbanus wrote:

Beard, Morph,HOW IS:

Well, boss fights do sometimes tend to end in the round that I get to act. *whistles innocently*

Hey, it's okay. My Magus occasionally rolls a 1. You might get a turn.

FUN FOR THE REST OF THE TABLE?

I think for the most part take some of that with a grain of sand ... I've noticed that attitudes and actions are a LOT bigger online.

I know it's been a long time since I posted this, but I felt like I should amend that yes, this was facetious. My Magus isn't that powerful. Yes, she does more damage than anybody else at her tables, but that's her job, the same way that the wizard's job is to mess them up with magic, the fighter's job is to take hits, and the cleric's job is to reattach my limbs and/our soul after I crit the boss for 40% of his hp and he decides to full-attack the squishy in melee range... :)

I've never had people complain that I'm stealing the spotlight. I try very hard to make sure I'm a team member, not a one-man-band.

It's quite amazing how that turns the combat. You, a magus, sticks someone for a ton of damage (typically leaving a pair of smoking boots) and suddenly you're the most popular guy in the room. :D

I know my magus is a nasty hitter (though I wish I had more options than shocking grasp for truly nasty touch attacks) but I also know I'm squishy.

Of course my 'hard hitters' are uberoptimized though. I try to fulfill more than one role, which limits some of the more nasty builds out there. :D

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

what lack of options? There's shocking grasp, empowered shocking grasp, energy admixture: lightning shocking grasp, energy admixture acid shocking grasp....

Grand Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
what lack of options? There's shocking grasp, empowered shocking grasp, energy admixture: lightning shocking grasp, energy admixture acid shocking grasp....

Really? You're doing that? BNW .. be nice. :-P

I am being honest.. I look for options. Elemental Touch is awesome (multiple options there) I don't understand how Corrosive Touch can be so nerfed compared to it. (An acid conjuration spell that requires a save and does LESS damage without even the bonus to hit metallic armor)

The reason I dislike the 'one spell trick' is the first time I saw a magus in action.. she died because of the 'one trick attack spell' (Temple of Ephemeral Enlightenment)

And you left out: Intensified SG, Intensified/Empowered SG, Quicked SQ, Max SQ, and so on. :)

Silver Crusade

Elemental touch doesn't function with spellstrike. So it's kind of a fail.

My magus is actually support/defense, and I get laughed at for it sometimes. No one ever turns down the haste or the bonus to hit for enemies I trip, though.

Grand Lodge 4/5

David Bowles wrote:

Elemental touch doesn't function with spellstrike. So it's kind of a fail.

My magus is actually support/defense, and I get laughed at for it sometimes. No one ever turns down the haste or the bonus to hit for enemies I trip, though.

True but it has some nice side effects and keeps me from SGing everything in sight. And no, they don't complain about hastes (my first 3rd level spell) or any of the other buffs I keep on hand.

5/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Here's a spin on the topic. What happens if the problem person is usually a GM?

Dark Archive

Soluzar wrote:
Here's a spin on the topic. What happens if the problem person is usually a GM?

Report them to the store owner or coordinator. If not that, toss an email to any of your local venture officers.


Soluzar wrote:
Here's a spin on the topic. What happens if the problem person is usually a GM?

Just get a new DM. You are allowing him to be a jerk by not replacing him.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
talbanus wrote:


PFCGB,

Americans and their acronyms [roll eyes+

Care to explain the meaning, as I am unable to find it in the net?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Diego Rossi wrote:
talbanus wrote:


PFCGB,

Americans and their acronyms [roll eyes+

Care to explain the meaning, as I am unable to find it in the net?

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome (one of the other posters on this thread)

Dark Archive

Also known as the stealer of beds, apparently.


bah, she is just a cute little bunny... omgz! what huge teeth!


<.< >.>

Sovereign Court

Don Walker wrote:

Mike Brock has made it clear that event organizers have the right to ban problem players from their events. Cheaters, physically threatening, mentally abusive, and those who drive other players away from your event are all types of problem players.

Give the player a chance to correct their behaviour, of course. Involve the local venture officer if you want. But don't let one player cost you others.

Mike has also made it clear that a venture officer does not have the right to ban a player from their (sub)region. It is up to each event organizer to determine for their venue.

Hi, original poster here, and I'm the event coordinator for the venue in question.

Unfortunately there's been a second incident and I'm going to be giving a final warning with threat of a 6 month ban if there is even a hint of anything else from this problem player. This time there have been two separate reports of verbal abuse, and I just won't stand for that.

Thank you all for the solid advice and wonderful anecdotes.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

you are far more generous than I would be. At second incident and two more reports of verbal abuse, I would already be banning the player, at least for a month, with a warning of a six month ban when they come back if the behavior resumes.

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FLite wrote:
you are far more generous than I would be. At second incident and two more reports of verbal abuse, I would already be banning the player, at least for a month, with a warning of a six month ban when they come back if the behavior resumes.

I'm with FLite. Time to let this person go. Now.

Grand Lodge

The Human Diversion wrote:

Hi, original poster here, and I'm the event coordinator for the venue in question.

Unfortunately there's been a second incident and I'm going to be giving a final warning with threat of a 6 month ban if there is even a hint of anything else from this problem player. This time there have been two separate reports of verbal abuse, and I just won't stand for that.

Thank you all for the solid advice and wonderful anecdotes.

Hope it works out well for you. It's always annoying when a bad apple surfaces and needs to be dealt with.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Another update ... the gaming store in question has asked him not to come back, at least for quite some time. I'd feel bad if the person in question hadn't ignored three separate e-mail attempts to discuss the situation (and I know this person regularly checks that account since they respond to other folks).

Result? PFS game night attendance has gone up. We're back up to two full tables twice a week with the occasional third table.

5/5

Yeah, that shows just how poisonous this person was to your community.

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