paizo.com Recent Posts in Party Face/Social Rogue build?paizo.com Recent Posts in Party Face/Social Rogue build?2014-01-09T01:18:55Z2014-01-09T01:18:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Shifty (alias of Nik B.)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#502014-01-14T01:20:34Z2014-01-14T01:20:34Z<p>At some point we have to remember to throw out the names of the classes and just see them as a grab bag of skills and abilities.</p>
<p>I guess it comes out to asking what you want your character to actually DO and how you want them to be doing it, and then looking for the 'package' that fits best.</p>
<p>Someone might want to be a debt collector or heavy for the local Thieves guild, and whilst they might wear leather armour and occasionally simply steal stuff, they might find the best 'Package' is the one labelled Fighter.</p>
<p>That said, a lot of people are really down on the package currently labelled 'Rogue', which is a shame, as they are a flexible and diverse package of characteristics which can be tailored into a unique and highly effective set of skills for just about any campaign imaginable. They are one of the most flexible packages, however in a game where a lot of people like specialisation, they get eyed with suspicion and derision.</p>
<p>Frankly I really like that package, and have had no problems holding my own in a party when using it.</p>At some point we have to remember to throw out the names of the classes and just see them as a grab bag of skills and abilities.
I guess it comes out to asking what you want your character to actually DO and how you want them to be doing it, and then looking for the 'package' that fits best.
Someone might want to be a debt collector or heavy for the local Thieves guild, and whilst they might wear leather armour and occasionally simply steal stuff, they might find the best 'Package' is the...Shifty (alias of Nik B.)2014-01-14T01:20:34ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Riodrian (alias of Steve Cline)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#492014-01-14T01:03:12Z2014-01-14T01:03:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Eptaceros wrote:</div><blockquote> Do most consider ninjas to be better than rogues? Even though I hate the implications the name has (really doesn't fit the character personality) I do like what i've seen so far from the class. </blockquote><p>Ninja is just a word you write on your character sheet. I have played ninjas as "Spy", "Covert Agent" and "Sneaky Silver-tongues Devil"Eptaceros wrote:Do most consider ninjas to be better than rogues? Even though I hate the implications the name has (really doesn't fit the character personality) I do like what i've seen so far from the class.
Ninja is just a word you write on your character sheet. I have played ninjas as "Spy", "Covert Agent" and "Sneaky Silver-tongues Devil"Riodrian (alias of Steve Cline)2014-01-14T01:03:12ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Arch_Bishophttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#482014-01-13T12:36:36Z2014-01-13T12:36:36Z<p>Eldritch Raider and the spell like abilities you can get, can really improve your social interaction/the way you affect others. Enchantment and Illusion have a lot of spells to help you in this area, while Transmutation has many "change-your-form" spells that add to your general utility too.</p>Eldritch Raider and the spell like abilities you can get, can really improve your social interaction/the way you affect others. Enchantment and Illusion have a lot of spells to help you in this area, while Transmutation has many "change-your-form" spells that add to your general utility too.Arch_Bishop2014-01-13T12:36:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?keerawahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#472014-01-13T13:44:23Z2014-01-13T08:54:49Z<p>Unless you desperately want to sneak attack, I would go for an archaeologist bard for this concept. No singing allowed, good face skills and truly excellent knowledge, even better at perception and disable device than a rogue (your 1/2 class bonus applies to all perception, not just traps). The archaeologist's luck bonus is incredible, in or out of combat.</p>
<p>My character never identified herself as a bard, in-character. Her intro in PFS parties was, "I'm good at getting into places, and out of places, with valuable items. I know a lot about a lot of things, and I've got a little bit of magic if we need it. I'm good at talking to people, and even better at lying to them."</p>
<p>Sound good?</p>Unless you desperately want to sneak attack, I would go for an archaeologist bard for this concept. No singing allowed, good face skills and truly excellent knowledge, even better at perception and disable device than a rogue (your 1/2 class bonus applies to all perception, not just traps). The archaeologist's luck bonus is incredible, in or out of combat.
My character never identified herself as a bard, in-character. Her intro in PFS parties was, "I'm good at getting into places, and out of...keerawa2014-01-13T08:54:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Shifty (alias of Nik B.)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#462014-01-13T08:27:07Z2014-01-13T08:27:07Z<p>"I already had a backstory idea centered around an ex-spy on the run, for a lawful neutral rogue".</p>
<p>I think most of us were taking this part at face value, but as pointed out, the 'no set race/class/or anything yet' but seems to contradict.</p>"I already had a backstory idea centered around an ex-spy on the run, for a lawful neutral rogue".
I think most of us were taking this part at face value, but as pointed out, the 'no set race/class/or anything yet' but seems to contradict.Shifty (alias of Nik B.)2014-01-13T08:27:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?blackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#452014-01-13T08:20:42Z2014-01-13T08:20:42Z<p>Rogue the concept, and Rogue the class, are two different things.</p>Rogue the concept, and Rogue the class, are two different things.blackbloodtroll2014-01-13T08:20:42ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Atarlosthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#442014-01-13T04:04:30Z2014-01-13T04:04:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Lambertz wrote:</div><blockquote> <span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed some posts and replies. Please don't bring off-topic debates into advice threads like this.</span> </blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Eptaceros wrote:</div><blockquote><p>I already had a backstory idea centered around an ex-spy on the run, for a lawful neutral rogue. I figured I don't want to be totally useless outside of being a party face though.</p>
<p>It's a 20 point buy and we're starting level 1. There were a few builds I looked at focusing around knife master/scout combo or ninjas with high CHA, but I don't know. I have <b>no set race/class/or anything yet</b>, so I don't mind creative suggestions lol. Any help would be appreciated </blockquote><p>Emphasis added
<p>If this is the thread I think it is the posts weren't off topic. The OP is looking for advice on a character and is not wedded to a class. Suggesting that his character concept is better served by classes other than rogue is <b>exactly</b> the sort of advice he purports to be seeking. </p>
<p>And bard just does it better, not just mechanically, but thematically. Bard is a better fit for a lawful ex-spy than rogue because an ex-spy's most important defining character trait is his cover and actor is one that uses skills related to spying and allows him to travel. It is a natural career path for a lawful ex-spy in a way that rogue isn't.</p>Chris Lambertz wrote:Removed some posts and replies. Please don't bring off-topic debates into advice threads like this.
Eptaceros wrote:I already had a backstory idea centered around an ex-spy on the run, for a lawful neutral rogue. I figured I don't want to be totally useless outside of being a party face though.
It's a 20 point buy and we're starting level 1. There were a few builds I looked at focusing around knife master/scout combo or ninjas with high CHA, but I don't know. I have no...Atarlost2014-01-13T04:04:30ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Tangaroahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#432014-01-13T03:40:45Z2014-01-13T03:40:45Z<p>OK, finally got to play with this some more; also switched skill focus from disable to perception, as trap DCs don't get higher then 34, really.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>OK, finally got to play with this some more; also switched skill focus from disable to perception, as trap DCs don't get higher then 34, really.
[Spoiler omitted]Tangaroa2014-01-13T03:40:45ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Tangaroahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#422014-01-10T14:47:40Z2014-01-10T14:47:40Z<p>And now for something completely different!</p>
<p>If you don't mind sniping and letting others get the bulk of the combat glory, this build could work. I worked it up until level 12, but without gear</p>
<p>The build focuses on skills, social, stealth, and trap-related (I've never played RotRL, but I understand there are a fair amount)</p>
<p>At level 3, you take Eldritch Heritage (Shadow (Umbral Wildblooded) Bloodline)</p>
<p>At level 7, you can hide in the daylight using Hellcat stealth</p>
<p>Level 8, 9, 10 you pick up ranged combat feats and sniping so you can move away from melee </p>
<p>At level 11 and 12, using improved eldritch heritage you can now hide anywhere, shadow or light, see in darkness, and move people around in shadows. You pick up crippling strike to debuff baddies. Your UMD is pretty nice by this point, giving you more options.</p>
<p>You'll be doing a lot of sniping/single attacks and scouting in your career. Other folk are there to cover damage in your party, you cover a lot of other roles. Being able to get a +30 to stealth in shadows (using cloak of shadows) before items isn't too shabby.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>And now for something completely different!
If you don't mind sniping and letting others get the bulk of the combat glory, this build could work. I worked it up until level 12, but without gear
The build focuses on skills, social, stealth, and trap-related (I've never played RotRL, but I understand there are a fair amount)
At level 3, you take Eldritch Heritage (Shadow (Umbral Wildblooded) Bloodline)
At level 7, you can hide in the daylight using Hellcat stealth
Level 8, 9, 10 you pick...Tangaroa2014-01-10T14:47:40ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Cevahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#402014-01-09T21:04:13Z2014-01-09T21:04:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Eptaceros wrote:</div><blockquote> Like I said, I don't envision some sort of corny, black-clad bloke crawling around and assassinating dudes. I guess I had more of a slightly laid-back jason bourne/solid snake vibe. </blockquote><p>The black-clad stereotype is from oriental theater and not real life.
<p>Some playwright wanted a ninja in a story, and to show the "invisible" nature, the ninja was clad exactly like a stagehand. All in black, to keep them mostly unseen by the audience. In real life, ninja dressed exactly like others, to blend in. It was only by their actions, that their presence became known. Later, when movies wanted ninja to be shown, they used what the public was familiar with: stagehand outfitted actors.</p>
<p>The art of invisibility is not the art of hiding a distinctive outfit, but of making others discount you because you are of no consequence. In feudal times, east or west, the lowly servants and drudges were ignored unless they got in the way. By dressing as one of these, a ninja could freely scout a castle without anyone knowing they were there. Later, people think the ninja was invisible because no one saw anyone unusual about.</p>
<p>As to assassination, I think that was actually rare. More often a ninja was sent to gather information. Yes, they are good at killing from the shadows, but it is not the only thing they do. Also, for a good assassination, you need to solo. That is hard with a party of PCs going with you all the time. Much more often the party will enter combat, and the ninja will be a melee attacker.</p>
<p>I play a ninja in PF, and find myself to be in a "face" role because of my high Cha and face skills. However, I use those skills to plant modified stories that emphasize what the other party members do over what I do, and play my role as second fiddle to the others. I am in the Skulls & Shackles AP, and another is the pirate captain. This helps focus interest in another PC, allowing me to work behind the scenes a bit more.</p>
<p>/cevah</p>Eptaceros wrote:Like I said, I don't envision some sort of corny, black-clad bloke crawling around and assassinating dudes. I guess I had more of a slightly laid-back jason bourne/solid snake vibe.
The black-clad stereotype is from oriental theater and not real life. Some playwright wanted a ninja in a story, and to show the "invisible" nature, the ninja was clad exactly like a stagehand. All in black, to keep them mostly unseen by the audience. In real life, ninja dressed exactly like...Cevah2014-01-09T21:04:13ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Thalin (alias of Anonymous User 747)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#392014-01-09T19:51:47Z2014-01-09T19:51:47Z<p>One of my favorite bards, the Arcanist, doesn't need performs at all. They are simply very knowledgable and likeable, and use their gift to point out weaknesses to their friends (granting nice AC / save / to hit bonuses). They are very good at keeping the party powered up, and make for excellent sociable characters as well. And because of their tendancy to have high int, they have lots of skill points to throw around.</p>One of my favorite bards, the Arcanist, doesn't need performs at all. They are simply very knowledgable and likeable, and use their gift to point out weaknesses to their friends (granting nice AC / save / to hit bonuses). They are very good at keeping the party powered up, and make for excellent sociable characters as well. And because of their tendancy to have high int, they have lots of skill points to throw around.Thalin (alias of Anonymous User 747)2014-01-09T19:51:47ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Black_Lanternhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#382014-01-09T19:36:50Z2014-01-09T19:36:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Eptaceros wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't think i'd choose bard because the concept of playing music and whatever seems entirely against the character personality/design i'd have in mind. The character would think that sort of business is for dandies and whatnot. Unless there's an archetype of a bard that doesn't 'perform' but then if there is, what's the point?</p>
<p>The human idea is a good point. I was thinking of something like an aasimar or possibly tiefling, but like you said, logically they would have a harder time blending into crowds/social settings. </blockquote><p>You don't have to have a bard that plays music, instead your bard could bard could whistle, rap, hum, or even do a jig to use his abilities.Eptaceros wrote:I don't think i'd choose bard because the concept of playing music and whatever seems entirely against the character personality/design i'd have in mind. The character would think that sort of business is for dandies and whatnot. Unless there's an archetype of a bard that doesn't 'perform' but then if there is, what's the point?
The human idea is a good point. I was thinking of something like an aasimar or possibly tiefling, but like you said, logically they would have a...Black_Lantern2014-01-09T19:36:50ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Thalin (alias of Anonymous User 747)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#372014-01-09T18:47:45Z2014-01-09T18:47:45Z<p>Switch hitter is Viable; but not as viable (or necessary) as it used to be. The reality is that, at the time of the Treatmonk guide, there weren't enough feats to make a "straight" two-handed ranger or bow ranger.</p>
<p>Times have changed, and rangers have improved (to be one of the best classes, they actually used to be pretty bad Core-only). There are actually feat lines that can remove you from provoking while shooting a bow (and even let you threaten to boot); and the ability to get around DR (a la cluster shot) and such. Bow rangers are extrodinarily good these days, and will never run out of feats to take.</p>
<p>As more splat books have come out, specializing in one "style" has become much, much better. Having said that, you can still pull off the "Switch Hitter" ranger; just don't be too suprised if you never find it a good idea to not use one of the two styles every time.</p>Switch hitter is Viable; but not as viable (or necessary) as it used to be. The reality is that, at the time of the Treatmonk guide, there weren't enough feats to make a "straight" two-handed ranger or bow ranger.
Times have changed, and rangers have improved (to be one of the best classes, they actually used to be pretty bad Core-only). There are actually feat lines that can remove you from provoking while shooting a bow (and even let you threaten to boot); and the ability to get around DR...Thalin (alias of Anonymous User 747)2014-01-09T18:47:45ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Reynard_the_foxhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#362014-01-09T18:31:34Z2014-01-09T18:31:34Z<p>Switch Hitter is <i>very</i> viable - between having full BAB, bonus feats, and Favored Enemy, you're going to be dealing much more damage much more consistently than a Rogue. You won't have quite as many class skills or skill ranks to throw around, but with traits to pick up your favorite social skill, you'll be fine. </p>
<p>Skirmisher is a perfectly reasonable archetype, especially with a few casters already in the party. Losing Instant Enemy hurts, but the good tricks are certainly on-par with spells and often don't require you to use up your actions casting them.</p>Switch Hitter is very viable - between having full BAB, bonus feats, and Favored Enemy, you're going to be dealing much more damage much more consistently than a Rogue. You won't have quite as many class skills or skill ranks to throw around, but with traits to pick up your favorite social skill, you'll be fine.
Skirmisher is a perfectly reasonable archetype, especially with a few casters already in the party. Losing Instant Enemy hurts, but the good tricks are certainly on-par with spells...Reynard_the_fox2014-01-09T18:31:34ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Chris Lambertzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#352014-01-09T18:18:41Z2014-01-09T18:18:41Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed some posts and replies. Please don't bring off-topic debates into advice threads like this.</span></p>Removed some posts and replies. Please don't bring off-topic debates into advice threads like this.Chris Lambertz2014-01-09T18:18:41ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Eptaceroshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#342014-01-09T02:05:27Z2014-01-09T02:05:27Z<p>I read the treantmonk guide about Rangers and was interested in doing the switch hitter ranger. The character design would be more around 'ex-bounty hunter/scout on the run" or whatever, but same personality and whatnot.</p>
<p>Is the switch hitter build still considered good or at least viable? I think someone else is going to do the party face character now so I'm putting rogue on the backburner. </p>
<p>I was also considering doing the 'skirmisher' rogue as it fits the character more to rely on craftiness and 'tricks' rather than divine magic or whatnot. Is the archetype okay to use? We already have two casters and I feel like the extra buffing/weak healing i'd get from basic rangers would have diminished usefulness.</p>I read the treantmonk guide about Rangers and was interested in doing the switch hitter ranger. The character design would be more around 'ex-bounty hunter/scout on the run" or whatever, but same personality and whatnot.
Is the switch hitter build still considered good or at least viable? I think someone else is going to do the party face character now so I'm putting rogue on the backburner.
I was also considering doing the 'skirmisher' rogue as it fits the character more to rely on...Eptaceros2014-01-09T02:05:27ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?MrSinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#332014-01-09T01:22:21Z2014-01-09T01:22:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Swashbucklersdc wrote:</div><blockquote> I play a human rogue Charlatan/Scout in RotRL; he has been the most fun of any character I have played! </blockquote><p>Rogue Advice: Don't take Charlatan. Rumermonger is just downright awful, its only useful if your GM won't let you spread rumors in the first place, and natural born liar has iffy wording and a +2 isn't really worth it, much less one that's situational.
<p>Scout isn't so bad. I've been told you can make a scary looking scout with a 2 handed weapon. Not that that's everyone's goal, but I've been told you can do it.</p>Swashbucklersdc wrote:I play a human rogue Charlatan/Scout in RotRL; he has been the most fun of any character I have played!
Rogue Advice: Don't take Charlatan. Rumermonger is just downright awful, its only useful if your GM won't let you spread rumors in the first place, and natural born liar has iffy wording and a +2 isn't really worth it, much less one that's situational. Scout isn't so bad. I've been told you can make a scary looking scout with a 2 handed weapon. Not that that's...MrSin2014-01-09T01:22:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Wiggzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#302014-01-08T23:49:04Z2014-01-08T23:49:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Eptaceros wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hey, so we're starting a new game in Rise of the runelords. it's a six man group, and while a few people haven't communicated what they're going to play yet, we have an Oracle, a summoner, and potentially my rogue so far. I have never played a rogue yet or been the 'party face' before I figured it was time.</p>
<p>I already had a backstory idea centered around an ex-spy on the run, for a lawful neutral rogue. I figured I don't want to be totally useless outside of being a party face though.</p>
<p>It's a 20 point buy and we're starting level 1. There were a few builds I looked at focusing around knife master/scout combo or ninjas with high CHA, but I don't know. I have no set race/class/or anything yet, so I don't mind creative suggestions lol. Any help would be appreciated </blockquote><p>I didn't check to see if it was recommended yet, but I really encourage you to check out the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo—-bard-archetypes/archaeologist" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><b>Archeologist Bard</b></a>... no singing, lot's of Rogue-type skills.Eptaceros wrote:Hey, so we're starting a new game in Rise of the runelords. it's a six man group, and while a few people haven't communicated what they're going to play yet, we have an Oracle, a summoner, and potentially my rogue so far. I have never played a rogue yet or been the 'party face' before I figured it was time.
I already had a backstory idea centered around an ex-spy on the run, for a lawful neutral rogue. I figured I don't want to be totally useless outside of being a party face...Wiggz2014-01-08T23:49:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Swashbucklersdchttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#292014-01-08T23:31:51Z2014-01-08T23:31:51Z<p>I play a human rogue Charlatan/Scout in RotRL; he has been the most fun of any character I have played!</p>
<p>I took 2 level of Lore Warden to get some better combat potential and also Noble Scion levels; I also have Eldritch Hertiage, Arcane, for the familiar (started with a monkey pilferer then switched over to a Faerie Dragon pilferer once I got Improved Familiar) and Leadership, chosing a pseudo-dragon ranger/rogue as my cohort.</p>
<p>The familiar/cohort team aid my combat abilities so i still contribute in combat; I flank with the pseudo-dragon and she has slept a few opponents with her tail, including a named giant (which allowed the raging barbarian to coup-de-grace said baddie).</p>
<p>If you are thinking of going Skill Focus at some point (which you need to do if you are going Eldritch Heritage anyways), take Focused Study as an alternate racial ability. You get Skill Focus at 1st, but then again twice over your career! One feat turns into three!</p>
<p>Like i said, I am having a blast with him; as the party's faceman, he has a Diplomacy of 38 at 11th level (Charlatan/Scout Rogue 6, Lorewarden Fighter 2, Noble Scion 3) and a Bluff of 31 (for Improved Feint).</p>I play a human rogue Charlatan/Scout in RotRL; he has been the most fun of any character I have played!
I took 2 level of Lore Warden to get some better combat potential and also Noble Scion levels; I also have Eldritch Hertiage, Arcane, for the familiar (started with a monkey pilferer then switched over to a Faerie Dragon pilferer once I got Improved Familiar) and Leadership, chosing a pseudo-dragon ranger/rogue as my cohort.
The familiar/cohort team aid my combat abilities so i still...Swashbucklersdc2014-01-08T23:31:51ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?EWHMhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#282014-01-08T23:00:49Z2014-01-08T23:00:49Z<p>Diplomacy/bluff/intimidate has so much table variation that it is insane, almost like enchantments, divinations, and illusions. Find out how your GM rolls insofar as your area is concerned. Then find out how much of skills X,Y, and Z you need to get the results in his game that you're after. If that amount is too rich for your blood consider the next tiers down.
<br />
Most of the time, at most tables, you can get by with nothing but a charisma of 12 or so, full ranks, and a minor emphasis on skill enhancing magic items. Another secret is this:
<br />
If you're not playing in my games, or games run by seriously hard core simulationists
<br />
VERY RARELY will you fail an adventure, or even a major objective solely because of a skill roll. Few GMs are willing to let an adventure hang on (or an adventure to not even start because of) what amounts to a single die roll. You'll find in practice that whatever you allocate, as long as it is a plausible investment (e.g., maxing that skill's ranks or even just having +5 or so more than the next best party member), it'll be enough. This is, in fact, one of the major problems of the rogue class. I'm willing for a group of characters to NOT learn of plot X because their intelligence network and gather information weren't up to the task. What happens then is that plot X proceeds without intervention by the PCs. Very few GMs are like this. Know your GM.</p>Diplomacy/bluff/intimidate has so much table variation that it is insane, almost like enchantments, divinations, and illusions. Find out how your GM rolls insofar as your area is concerned. Then find out how much of skills X,Y, and Z you need to get the results in his game that you're after. If that amount is too rich for your blood consider the next tiers down.
Most of the time, at most tables, you can get by with nothing but a charisma of 12 or so, full ranks, and a minor emphasis on skill...EWHM2014-01-08T23:00:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?blackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#272014-01-08T22:48:07Z2014-01-08T22:48:07Z<p>There is the Trapper/Freebooter Ranger combo.</p>
<p>Basically, the better Rogue.</p>There is the Trapper/Freebooter Ranger combo.
Basically, the better Rogue.blackbloodtroll2014-01-08T22:48:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?MrSinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#262014-01-08T22:21:03Z2014-01-08T22:21:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Eptaceros wrote:</div><blockquote> Do most consider ninjas to be better than rogues? Even though I hate the implications the name has (really doesn't fit the character personality) I do like what i've seen so far from the class. </blockquote><p>Ninjas are usually considered better. Ninjas aren't super amazing, but they can achieve sneak attack more reliably. The name really doesn't mean much, you don't have to wear black pajamas or be from an Asian culture to play a ninja anymore than a barbarian has to speak foreign tongues or come from a tribe.Eptaceros wrote:Do most consider ninjas to be better than rogues? Even though I hate the implications the name has (really doesn't fit the character personality) I do like what i've seen so far from the class.
Ninjas are usually considered better. Ninjas aren't super amazing, but they can achieve sneak attack more reliably. The name really doesn't mean much, you don't have to wear black pajamas or be from an Asian culture to play a ninja anymore than a barbarian has to speak foreign tongues...MrSin2014-01-08T22:21:03ZRe: Forums: Advice: Party Face/Social Rogue build?Eptaceroshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjrx?Party-FaceSocial-Rogue-build#252014-01-08T21:59:26Z2014-01-08T21:59:26Z<p>Thanks. I think I'm going to make two character templates so far, one for either a rogue or ninja with decent CHA if I have to be the party face. I'm also going to make a ranger I think, in case I can focus more on the exploration/combat aspects.</p>Thanks. I think I'm going to make two character templates so far, one for either a rogue or ninja with decent CHA if I have to be the party face. I'm also going to make a ranger I think, in case I can focus more on the exploration/combat aspects.Eptaceros2014-01-08T21:59:26Z