Highest Charisma Score?


Advice


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

What is the highest Paizo published Charisma score on a monster or character?

I got my sorcerer to 41, am expecting to get her to 48 by 20th-level, and am wondering how that compares to other things out there.


I beleieve nothing except strength (in published stuff) goes past 40... Still, I am wondering how you got that high; as I see it:

18+2 (racial) +5 (leveling) + 5 (insight) +6 (belt) +10 (mythic) =46

Unless maybe you're starting with 22 charisma? I can see how to do it without dumping everything else... Still, curious to see how far that can go.

Note: I rechecked the beastiary 4, and the "Draikania" (CR 25 MR 10) has 41 charisma. I checked the demon lords, empyreal lords, and great old ones, and they are lower.


What?! No published monster surpasses a hyper-optimized character?!

Oh, wait. *chuckles* That isn't a surprise.

Scarab Sages

You could also boost it by another +5 inherent via Wish, +8 via Grand Cognatogen (via lvl 16 alchemist), Tieflings (that choose a +cha heritage) and Aasimars that use the Variant Abilities and Physical Features table have a 1% chance of getting +4 to cha.

That's 18 +4(racial) +5 (leveling) +6 (enhancement) +10 (mythic) + 5 (inherent via Wish) +8 (alchemical via Grand Cagnatogen) = 56

Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?

Edit: counted Wish bonus twice


Sorry, it wasn't insight I meant, but inherent (from wish of the book). So 56, which is still respectable, and enough force of personality to drive the average commoner insane at the sight of you.

Dark Archive

Demon Lords seem low to mid 30s, Angels aren't even that high, most powerful undead some to hover around the 20-30 mark. Of the unique monsters in the d20pfsrd Bestiary listing the final bad guy in the Kingmaker AP has a 36, the Eremite Overlord Kyton has a 34 but that's it, after a brief search I can't find anyone who even reaches 40 without going Mythic.

I'd be interested in a breakdown of how you will reach 48 by 20th if you're willing? I've got a Cha focused BBEG and the best I could reach was around 40 ish (and that included a profane +2 from a Succubus gift), any extras I can reasonably add to make it more of a challenge would be nice.


Timebomb wrote:
Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?

Yup, the Succubus Profane Gift gives a +2 Stat to an one ability score, it is a profane bonus.

Scarab Sages

A 58 would be a +24 to cha based skill checks, with 20 ranks, a masterwork instrument and perform as a class skill that would be a +49 (+55 if skill focus). Seeing as a DC 30 perform check says

Perform wrote:
In time, you may draw attention from distant patrons, or even from extraplanar beings.

Something tells that DC 75 will get you literally playing music for the Gods. You can outplay a Trumpet Archon without even trying. I'm pretty sure your music would be a drug it is so good.

Then someone gives you the Perfect Golden Lute and you get another +10, for +65, max DC of 85.


Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Timebomb wrote:
Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?
Yup, the Succubus Profane Gift gives a +2 Stat to an one ability score, it is a profane bonus.

The lilitu is basically the succubus' cool big sister and can grant wishes for cheaper inherent bonuses, plus her profane bonus is +4 with no telepathic bond.


Nocticula has a 40 in Charisma, while her Constitution score is 2 points higher at 42.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Timebomb wrote:
Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?
Yup, the Succubus Profane Gift gives a +2 Stat to an one ability score, it is a profane bonus.
The lilitu is basically the succubus' cool big sister and can grant wishes for cheaper inherent bonuses, plus her profane bonus is +4 with no telepathic bond.

Nocticula can take that even further with a +6 profane bonus to one score and a +4 to a second (plus seeing in darkness). Of course, she can communicate telepathically with the target, and use her SLAs through him as if he were the source, but that's limited in some senses (since she'd need to scry to see what's happening around him or be told telepathically).

Also in WotR is Arueshalae with her anarchic gift (+2 sacred bonus).

Adding that to an Aasimar who rolls for variant abilities and somehow pulls the 100 result (roll twice) followed by two rolls of 90 (+2 CHA each, and it doesn't say you can't get the same thing twice), that could be a potential +6.

Mythic gives you up to an additional +10 at base, +12 if you choose one of the universal path abilities.

So 18 (base) + 6 (race) + 3 (age) + 5 (level) + 5 (inherent from wish) + 6 (enhancement) + 6 (profane) + 8 (alchemical grand cognatogen) + 2 (sacred from anarchic gift) + 12 (mythic).

That's a total of 71 (a +30 modifier). I can't quite think how to get it any higher off the top of my head. You'd need morale, luck, or untyped bonuses.

Also bear in mind that this is purely theoretical mechanics, and doesn't touch on any roleplay aspect. I'll leave justifying that sort of thing to others.


I can't find stats for Nocticula or Arueshalae.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
I can't find stats for Nocticula or Arueshalae.

Arueshalae is in the third book of WotR. Nocticula is in the fourth.


Ah, thanks. Nethys doesn't seem to have those yet, and d20pfsrd is equally blank. I'll take your word for it at the moment.


Lol a cha of 71 would murder someone for a bard or antipaladin (only ones I can currently think of with class about cha)


I was wondering where RD was the past couple weeks. Glad to see he's back and in rare form.

I have to wonder what a Charisma of 48 is like. Flipping through the old 3.0 Deities & Demigods (just to get an idea), I find Zeus has a Charisma of 28, while Aphrodite comes in at a hair-raising 47!!

So I can only imagine that those mere mortals unlucky enough to catch a glimpse of RD's sorcerer as she struts down the boardwalk are likely to burst into Divine Flames of Hawtness.

Liberty's Edge

Count Coltello wrote:
Lol a cha of 71 would murder someone for a bard or antipaladin (only ones I can currently think of with class about cha)

An oracle with one of the three Mysteries granting a Cha for Dex bonus to AC, Taking the Noble Scion: War for Cha to initiative, at least 2 levels of Paladin for Cha to all saves...


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I can't believe you guys left out the ENHANCED ABILITY Universal Path ability. Your numbers could be AT LEAST two points higher!

As fun as theory-crafting is, I'm looking for published creatures and characters with high Charisma, such as from the Bestiaries or an adventure module.


The record would seem to be Nocticula's 40. I know Pazuzu and Sifkesh have 36.


Like I said before, the best published is the Drakainia ( Linky) with CHA 41. Even the demon lords & empyreal lords dont reach that, much less the great old ones.


One could get another +2 by taking the Nemesis Story Feat.

Also don't forget that the the Monsters could theoretically get boosted much higher with the right equipment.


Ravingdork wrote:
I can't believe you guys left out the ENHANCED ABILITY Universal Path ability. Your numbers could be AT LEAST two points higher!

Actually, I factored that in. It's why my note on the mythic increase over 10 tiers is +12 rather than +10. (By the by, are you the same Ravingdork from the WotC SAGA boards?)

As far as published creatures, Nocticula's +15 off her 40 total (which she hasn't boosted with items, so she could easily sit on a 46, or even 48-50 depending on whether she decided to take profane boosts from other succubi/nascent lords during "personal time") is the highest modifier I can recall offhand, though the Drakainia's 41 score is ever-so-slightly higher (same modifier, but).


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Alleran wrote:
By the by, are you the same Ravingdork from the WotC SAGA boards?

The one and only! Broke my heart when WotC abandoned Star Wars Saga... ಥ_ಥ

It was in every way what 4E should have been.

Scarab Sages

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Ipslore the Red wrote:
Ah, thanks. Nethys doesn't seem to have those yet, and d20pfsrd is equally blank. I'll take your word for it at the moment.

Yeah, holidays wreck me a little. :) I just added the AP, working on Magical Marketplace and the Inner Sea NPC Codex now. I did some queries though on 'highest ability modifier' to see what kind of results I'd get though. Keep in mind that this doesn't include all the NPCs from the main story of an AP, just bestiary monsters and NPCs from official "Codexes" and such (except the most recent one, sadly).

Monsters (Non-Mythic)
Highest STR: 56 - Cthulhu
Highest DEX: 43 - Hastur
Highest CON: 46 - Achaekek, the Mantis God
Highest INT: 36 - Erotundee, Keeper of the Risen Light
Highest WIS: 36 - Charnel Colossus and Cthulhu
Highest CHA: 40 - Agmazar the Star Titan and Nocticula

Monsters (Mythic)
Highest STR: 51 - Iron Colossus
Highest DEX: 33 - Elder Air Elemental (Mythic)
Highest CON: 46 - Drakainia
Highest INT: 46 - Baba Yaga
Highest WIS: 32 - Kortash Khain
Highest CHA: 41 - Drakainia

NPCs
Highest STR: 30 - Death Dealer (Barbarian) or Refined Reaver (Barbarian)
Highest DEX: 26 - Darkstar (Rogue)
Highest CON: 34 - Scarred Wanderer (Barbarian)
Highest INT: 28 - Master Universalist (Wizard)
Highest WIS: 26 - Rage Flame (Druid)
Highest CHA: 27 - Arisen Sorcerer (Sorcerer)


Who has the highest non-mythic Con after Mantis God.

Scarab Sages

45 = Cthulhu
44 = Hastur
43 = Hekatonkheires
42 = Bokrug, Nocticula, Pazuzu, Sifkesh
41 = Agyra, Mogaru, Thanatotic Titan


On a side-y note, highest strength on a sorcerer(draconic)15/ alchemist(vivectionist) 1/ DD5 with eldrich heritage(abyssal):
18 base + 2 racial + 5 level + 6 inherent from EH +6 enhancement + 4 DD + 6 profane + 4 alchemical = 51 constant, optional + 10 from FotD III and + 12 from mythic for a grand total of 73 strength, + 31. you'll notice you're beating cthulhu by quite the mileage, and with intimidating prowess and 20 ranks in intimidate, skill focus and bonus from huge, it's a 61 + cha intimidate. nocticula is screaming to mummy. Linky for the original build(thanx williamoak for this word, imma start abusing it).


Someone should at least mention the naure oracle...


Wasum wrote:
Someone should at least mention the naure oracle...

If you mean the "(feeblemind + awaken)* 6 bajillion times", I think it has been ruled not to work as ability damage doesnt actually reslt in a new ability score.


oh nevermind, it's official

Quote:

Benefit: You can choose not to allow spells and effects to effect you if they would not be capable of affecting both your original creature type and the animal creature type.

You can allow spells and effects that affect animals, animal companions, and special mounts to affect you, even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of your type. For example, you could cast animal growth or reduce animal on yourself, even though those spells normally affect only animals. An ally could cast raise animal companion on you to bring you back from the dead. An opponent could not cast charm animal or dominate animal on you unless you chose to allow the spell to affect you as if you were an animal.


What about the spell Genius Avaricious, which can add up to a +5 untyped bonus to charisma? Kabriri's third boon from her demonic obedience feat also grants a profane +4 bonus to charisma if you are already undead.


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I feel someone needs to point out the necromancy ...


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I feel someone needs to point out the necromancy ...

High Charisma is critical for undead creatures.


Reduxist wrote:
What about the spell Genius Avaricious, which can add up to a +5 untyped bonus to charisma? Kabriri's third boon from her demonic obedience feat also grants a profane +4 bonus to charisma if you are already undead.

We already have a +6 profane from nocticula. Where is genius avaricious from?


Genius Avaricious is an obscure spell from the Council of Thieves adventure module. Essentially, you eat a coin and it can give you one of many special effects. One of these effects grants you a scaling bonus to charisma. However, it doesn't specify which type of bonus it is, although judging by the evil spell descriptor, it would be easy to assume it is profane. With RAW, however, you can also make the argument that it is untyped.


Oh, and Luthier's Rapier grants a +4 sacred bonus to charisma once per day.


Great, I was about to mention both Genius Avaricious AND Luthier's Rapier. I hope you're happy.

At any rate, with those bonuses, venerable age and some Profane bonuses, it's possible to reach at least 50 (+20 mod) CHA.

With that, just be a Level 20 Cyclopean Seer Oracle and win at Pathfinder by having a free natural 20 on demand once every round.


Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Timebomb wrote:
Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?
Yup, the Succubus Profane Gift gives a +2 Stat to an one ability score, it is a profane bonus.

Cut a deal with Noticula, she can grant a +6 profane bonus. Also: bragging rights for getting intimate with the first succubus.

Noticula has a 40 charisma and could raise it through items or magic should she so choose.


Just note that Luthier's Rapier is a Holy weapon, so it will give a negative level to any non-good character that wields it. It lasts for 10 minutes per day, so for the rest of the day, you're dealing with a -1 instead of a net +1 gain.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Timebomb wrote:
Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?
Yup, the Succubus Profane Gift gives a +2 Stat to an one ability score, it is a profane bonus.

Cut a deal with Noticula, she can grant a +6 profane bonus. Also: bragging rights for getting intimate with the first succubus.

Noticula has a 40 charisma and could raise it through items or magic should she so choose.

so let's give nocticula 20 levels of cyclopian oracel shall we?


Potato disciple wrote:
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Timebomb wrote:
Anyone know how to get a buff to Cha via Luck, Moral, Sacred, or Profane bonuses?
Yup, the Succubus Profane Gift gives a +2 Stat to an one ability score, it is a profane bonus.

Cut a deal with Noticula, she can grant a +6 profane bonus. Also: bragging rights for getting intimate with the first succubus.

Noticula has a 40 charisma and could raise it through items or magic should she so choose.

so let's give nocticula 20 levels of cyclopian oracel shall we?

And make her undead, and give her noble scion (war), and make sure she has a revelation that changes her ac and reflex saves to charisma...

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