Design Manager
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Does the Share Spells ability of classes like the Ranger, Paladin, Druid, or Summoner allow them to ignore any Spell Resistance their mount/companion/eidolon has?
For example, say I'm an Oracle who has been granted an animal companion by an ability like the one granted by the Lunar Mystery. I take Celestial Servant which, amongst other things, grants my companion spell resistance.
When I cast Cure Light Wounds on my companion, should I either be taking the appropriate actions to make it lower its spell resistance or rolling against its SR, or should Share Spells allow me to bypass the SR as though I were casting the spell on myself?
Reading the share spells ability it doesn't indicate in any way that you treat it as though you were casting the spell on yourself (which you can ignore your own SR when casting a spell on yourself). So to that end, it does appear you would need to deal with your companions SR.
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Design Manager
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Reading the share spells ability it doesn't indicate in any way that you treat it as though you were casting the spell on yourself (which you can ignore your own SR when casting a spell on yourself). So to that end, it does appear you would need to deal with your companions SR.
That was my reading as well. I see this come up fairly frequently in regards to the Celestial Servant feat or the SR granted to Paladin mounts; it would appear that the only way to bypass the SR when casting a spell normally subject to it on your mount would be to use a move action to Push your mount to lower its SR (a standard action for the mount).
People seem to think that since Share Spells allows you to cast spells with a target of "You" on your mount, the mount is treated as you for SR. I think that that is an assumption not supported by the RAW, though.
People seem to think that since Share Spells allows you to cast spells with a target of "You" on your mount, the mount is treated as you for SR. I think that that is an assumption not supported by the RAW, though.
I agree wholeheartedly. I see nothing to indicate it.
I would agree in regards to Share Spell.
However, I'd probably say that Improved Share Spell would allow it to affect the companion without an SR check. With ISS, it's implied that you're casting the spell on yourself and that it affects your companion as well if you so choose.
Spell Resistance (Ex): If the master is 11th level or higher, a familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master's level + 5. To affect the familiar with a spell, another spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the familiar's spell resistance.
The bolded part lets me think that the master doesn't need to beat the SR of its own familiar.
My 2 cp.
Spell Resistance (Ex): If the master is 11th level or higher, a familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master's level + 5. To affect the familiar with a spell, another spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the familiar's spell resistance.The bolded part lets me think that the master doesn't need to beat the SR of its own familiar.
My 2 cp.
Hrm, I was unaware of that text. That does seem to change things a bit. With the emphasized portion it does seem to imply that the familiar's spell resistance wouldn't affect its master's spells...
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Design Manager
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The question was in regards to Animal Companions rather than familiars; and they (Animal Companions) do not have any disclaimer like that given to familiars, nor do they have Spell Resistance built in to their progression like the familiar. If anything, I think the familiar's exception to his SR not interfering with his master's spells is a good indicator that abilities granting SR without that exception do interfere. After all, the familiar has both Share Spells, and a note in his Spell Resistance specifically exempting him from resisting his master's spells.
Similarly, the Summoner has the Share Spells feature but the Spell Resistance Evolution for the Eidolon notes that "The eidolon's spell resistance is equal to 11 + the summoner's level. This spell resistance does not apply to spells cast by the summoner."
I would think if they felt the need to indicate that the Spell Resistance does not have an affect in those circumstances, the implication would be that it would if they hadn't made the exception.
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Design Manager
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I think there may not be much interest because a lot of tables (mine included) houserule SR such that you can suppress it as a free action rather than a standard action. It's almost a liability otherwise, as seen here.
SR is pretty awkward for non-casters; still, for things like PFS this seems pretty important.
Who's ability is share spells?
(It isn't the spellcaster's)
Think about the implication there.
From Spell Resistance;
"A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
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Design Manager
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Who's ability is share spells?
(It isn't the spellcaster's)
Think about the implication there.
From Spell Resistance;
"A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Just to clarify, you're coming down on the side that Share Spells does not allow spells cast by the companion's owner to bypass SR, right?
Where is the sr comming from? If its sometging other than the class feature that gives a companion there is no reason for the caster to bypass the sr.
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Design Manager
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Where is the sr comming from? If its sometging other than the class feature that gives a companion there is no reason for the caster to bypass the sr.
Celestial Servant is the most commonly discussed source of SR when it comes to this discussion.
Just to clarify, you're coming down on the side that Share Spells does not allow spells cast by the companion's owner to bypass SR, right?Who's ability is share spells?
(It isn't the spellcaster's)
Think about the implication there.
From Spell Resistance;
"A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Heh, I read it as if he meant the opposite.
People are actually using SR for Beneficial Spells?
I thought everyone had house ruled that silly thing long ago.
As far as I am concerned, SR only works for non-beneficial spells.
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People are actually using SR for Beneficial Spells?
I thought everyone had house ruled that silly thing long ago.
As far as I am concerned, SR only works for non-beneficial spells.
Well, considering this is the Rules forum, and not the House Rules forum...
Share Spells is listed as an ability of the Animal Companion. Spell Resistance isn't meant to interfere with ones own abilities. Ergo, I wouldn't expect Spell Resistance to apply.
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Design Manager
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Well, considering this is the Rules forum, and not the House Rules forum...
Share Spells is listed as an ability of the Animal Companion. Spell Resistance isn't meant to interfere with ones own abilities. Ergo, I wouldn't expect Spell Resistance to apply.
Ummmm.... This doesn't address the argument. Share Spells does not grant Spell Resistance, and few of the spells granted by Share Spells are subject to SR anyway.
I have a druid. They have an Animal Companion and the Celestial Servant feat, which grants the Animal Companion Spell Resistance. My druid casts Cure Light Wounds on my Animal Companion, a spell that has nothing to do with Share Spells because it doesn't have a target of "You" and doesn't target only particular types of creatures. Do I have to roll against my AC's SR or spend the necessary actions to force it to lower its SR? If not, what about the Animal Companion's Share Spells ability leads you to this conclusion?
Where is the sr comming from? If its sometging other than the class feature that gives a companion there is no reason for the caster to bypass the sr.Celestial Servant is the most commonly discussed source of SR when it comes to this discussion.
Given the AC has sr from a source other than the class feature that orovides tge ac there is no reason to assume the sr can be ignored. The only case providing an example f sr veing ignored is famiiars. However famiiars provide the sr from the same class feature.
Well, considering this is the Rules forum, and not the House Rules forum...
Share Spells is listed as an ability of the Animal Companion. Spell Resistance isn't meant to interfere with ones own abilities. Ergo, I wouldn't expect Spell Resistance to apply.
Ummmm.... This doesn't address the argument. Share Spells does not grant Spell Resistance, and few of the spells granted by Share Spells are subject to SR anyway.
I have a druid. They have an Animal Companion and the Celestial Servant feat, which grants the Animal Companion Spell Resistance. My druid casts Cure Light Wounds on my Animal Companion, a spell that has nothing to do with Share Spells because it doesn't have a target of "You" and doesn't target only particular types of creatures. Do I have to roll against my AC's SR or spend the necessary actions to force it to lower its SR? If not, what about the Animal Companion's Share Spells ability leads you to this conclusion?
The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself.
Are you not a valid target of cure light wounds?
The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself.
Are you not a valid target of cure light wounds?
This is completely twisting the rule.
"target: you" is a thing.
The rule let's you change the target for these spells (and the range/affected creature type to facilitate such targeting).Share Spells is never invoked in this case because CLW can already target the AC normally without changing anything.
So invoke it anyway...
If Share Spells allows you to bypass the AC's SR, which it should, then any spells you could cast on yourself can be used via share spells to cast it on the AC and bypass its SR.
You should be able to cast spell on your AC, it is clearly RAI, and sketchy RAW. Go with it.
Share Spells does what it says. Since it does not mention bypassing SR, then it does not bypass it.
Funny enough, Spell Resistance says why Share Spells would bypass it.
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Design Manager
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Share Spells does what it says. Since it does not mention bypassing SR, then it does not bypass it.Funny enough, Spell Resistance says why Share Spells would bypass it.
Except it doesn't. Spells with a target of "You" are spells like Shield, which has a target of you, not spells which can incidentally also target you, which typically have a target of "Creature Touched".
Except it doesn't. Spells with a target of "You" are spells like Shield, which has a target of you, not spells which can incidentally also target you, which typically have a target of "Creature Touched".Share Spells does what it says. Since it does not mention bypassing SR, then it does not bypass it.Funny enough, Spell Resistance says why Share Spells would bypass it.
Yup. Share Spells is for the purposes of where the spell says "Target: You".
I think for the purposes of a familiar who has the Spell Resistance feature (as quoted above), the answer is that RAW allows you to bypass SR without a check.
That's probably enough to assume that the RAI for other, similar companions - like ACs and mounts - would be that you can do so without a CL check to bypass SR, but I haven't yet found anything specifically stating that.
I disagree. Familiars have that exclusion because familiars get sr as parr of the famikiar class feature. Ac do not inherently have sr ero there is no reason to assume shared spells which makes no mention of sr allows you to bypass it.
Familiars are often considered a part of the master (see teleport for example). Animal Companions are not.
Share Spells won't help with any spell, Target: "You" or not. The spell being cast on the animal companion is not one of the animal companion's abilities, regardless of whether it's Share Spells ability is allowing it to be cast on them or not.
Familiars are often considered a part of the master (see teleport for example). Animal Companions are not.
Share Spells won't help with any spell, Target: "You" or not. The spell being cast on the animal companion is not one of the animal companion's abilities, regardless of whether it's Share Spells ability is allowing it to be cast on them or not.
This is false.
From Spell Resistance; "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Share Spells is the creature's ability.
This means an animal companion’s SR never interferes with Share Spells ability.
Ever.
So what is it that can never be interfered with? "The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
SR can never stop this text from happening. This text supersedes SR in every way. Why? Because SR says it does.
The Share spells ability explicitly allows the druid to cast spells on the companion, and SR can never interfere with it.
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Design Manager
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This is false.From Spell Resistance; "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Share Spells is the creature's ability.
This means an animal companion’s SR never interferes with Share Spells ability.
Ever.
So what is it that can never be interfered with? "The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
SR can never stop this text from happening. This text supersedes SR in every way. Why? Because SR says it does.
The Share spells ability explicitly allows the druid to cast spells on the companion, and SR can never interfere with it.
Which makes absolutely no difference at all if the spell being cast does not have a target of "You". And since spells with a target of "You" are never subject to SR anyways, it makes no difference. So while SR doesn't interfere with spells with a target of "You", which it wouldn't anyway, Share Spells still does not interact with any other spell, like Cure Light Wounds, Magic Fang, etc. and all of those spells are still subject to the companion's SR.
Which makes absolutely no difference at all if the spell being cast does not have a target of "You". And since spells with a target of "You" are never subject to SR anyways, it makes no difference. So while SR doesn't interfere with spells with a target of "You", which it wouldn't anyway, Share Spells still does not interact with any other spell, like Cure Light Wounds, Magic Fang, etc. and all of those spells are still subject to the companion's SR.
This is false.From Spell Resistance; "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Share Spells is the creature's ability.
This means an animal companion’s SR never interferes with Share Spells ability.
Ever.
So what is it that can never be interfered with? "The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
SR can never stop this text from happening. This text supersedes SR in every way. Why? Because SR says it does.
The Share spells ability explicitly allows the druid to cast spells on the companion, and SR can never interfere with it.
"A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type"
That should allow some spells to bypass the SR.
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"A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type"That should allow some spells to bypass the SR.
Why? What matter for that phrase is the Type (a game characteristic defined in the Bestiary) of the target creature against the Type that the spell will normally affect.
It has noting to do with Spell resistance.- * -
"This adapter allow you to use a American power socket with a UE power cord" don't mean "This adapter will turn the 110 volts power from an American power socket to the 220 voltage used by UE power tools."
As your AC trusts you unequivocally to cast spells with the "you" descriptor, so to would your companion trust you to cast any spell upon it. Even for the sake of argument the AC is still leery of certain spells being cast upon it, at that point your "link" ability allows for a free action to handle their ally and therefore receives the spell with know SR roll needed.
Link (Ex): A druid can handle her animal companion
as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she
doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The
druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy
checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an
animal companion.
"A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type"That should allow some spells to bypass the SR.
Why? What matter for that phrase is the Type (a game characteristic defined in the Bestiary) of the target creature against the Type that the spell will normally affect.
It has noting to do with Spell resistance.
Of course it has everything to do with spell resistance. Spell resistance says that a spell resistance can never interfere with a creature's ability.
If you cast Enlarge Person on your AC, and you try to apply SR, then that would be a case where SR is interfering with the creature's ability. And SR can never do that.
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"A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type"That should allow some spells to bypass the SR.
Why? What matter for that phrase is the Type (a game characteristic defined in the Bestiary) of the target creature against the Type that the spell will normally affect.
It has noting to do with Spell resistance.Of course it has everything to do with spell resistance. Spell resistance says that a spell resistance can never interfere with a creature's ability.
If you cast Enlarge Person on your AC, and you try to apply SR, then that would be a case where SR is interfering with the creature's ability. And SR can never do that.
Not what the ability say. From the Animal companion ability:
"Share Spells (Ex): The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
1) " The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on herself."
I.e. you can cast spells that normally have a range of you as touch spells on your animal companion.
2) "A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)."
I.e.. you can cast spells that target a person or outside on the AC.
3) "Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion."
You must use spells from the Druid list
4) "This ability does not allow the animal to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
And only spells.
Nothing under animal companion about SR.
So you would use the normal SR rules:
Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. Some spells also grant spell resistance.
To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature's spell resistance. The defender's spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn't affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate.Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not. A creature can have some abilities that are subject to spell resistance and some that are not. Even some spells ignore spell resistance; see When Spell Resistance Applies, below.
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature's next turn. At the beginning of the creature's next turn, the creature's spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.
A creature with spell resistance cannot impart this power to others by touching them or standing in their midst. Only the rarest of creatures and a few magic items have the ability to bestow spell resistance upon another.
Spell resistance does not stack, but rather overlaps.
"A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Who is casting the shared spells? The druid or the AC? The druid.
So that piece of text doesn't apply.
"A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities."
Bolded the right part for ya.
Share spells is the animal companion's ability. The animal companion's spell resistance will never interfere with share spells.
If share spells says something happens/works etc... then spell resistance will never interfere with that.
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Actually, from the text of Share Spells, the druid may still cast the spells. SR does not interfere with this at all.
Regrettably, when the druid casts the spell (ie, after the "may cast" step), SR does apply on the spell (ie, the druid's ability).
Share Spells does not make the casting of the spells an automatic success. For example, it still allows a companion to make a save against a spell cast by the druid if the companion wants to.