# Confirmation #5-08, Out of Tier?

### Pathfinder Society

We played 1st level Confirmation as I was the only 2nd level at the table. GM said there's no out of tier gold for Confirmation, so he gave me 1st level gold, but I'm not seeing anything on the forums saying otherwise. Another GM at an adjacent table was awarding OoT gold.

So... OoT or not to OoT?

Thanks,
-Rob

 Developer

There is no Out of Subtier gold value for this scenario because:

a) The difference between the two values is minimal (approximately 50 gp, if memory serves)
b) The scenario has atypical tiering that covers only two levels. Out of Subtier gold exists in part to bridge the gap between two larger subtiers that are three levels apart.

And to answer your question, I think you should have received gold for the subtier of your character, not the one played

John Compton wrote:

There is no Out of Subtier gold value for this scenario because:

a) The difference between the two values is minimal (approximately 50 gp, if memory serves)
b) The scenario has atypical tiering that covers only two levels. Out of Subtier gold exists in part to bridge the gap between two larger subtiers that are three levels apart.

Closer to 80. Carlos just posted after you that I should have gotten subtier 2 gold, even though the rest of the group was 1st level. I'll be GMing this before long, so I'd like to get this cleared up.

So, to be clear: Regardless of group composition, 2nd level characters always receive subtier 2, and 1st level always receive subtier 1? No OoT gold.

Correct?

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I'm not familiar with "The Confirmation" itself, but isn't it the rule that any time you play out of tier, you get out of tier gold? It doesn't matter if the difference is 1 shiny copper, the rule needs to be applied uniformly so we're not giving people an excuse to be more confused about simple math than they already are.

 Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Mystic Lemur wrote:
I'm not familiar with "The Confirmation" itself, but isn't it the rule that any time you play out of tier, you get out of tier gold? It doesn't matter if the difference is 1 shiny copper, the rule needs to be applied uniformly so we're not giving people an excuse to be more confused about simple math than they already are.

"The Confirmation" simply doesn't list out-of-subtier gold. Since it is from season 5, this means there actually isn't an out-of-subtier gold value.

Now the question is, if a player plays a level 1 character with a group playing subtier 2, or a player plays a level 2 character with a group playing subtier 1, which gold amount does he gain? The subtier he played or the subtier appropriate for his character?

I'd be interested to know this, too. I'll be running this scenario a few times soon.

 Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta

I have been giving the gold for the level that the Character is.

Andreas Forster wrote:
Mystic Lemur wrote:
I'm not familiar with "The Confirmation" itself, but isn't it the rule that any time you play out of tier, you get out of tier gold? It doesn't matter if the difference is 1 shiny copper, the rule needs to be applied uniformly so we're not giving people an excuse to be more confused about simple math than they already are.
"The Confirmation" simply doesn't list out-of-subtier gold. Since it is from season 5, this means there actually isn't an out-of-subtier gold value.

Not true. The out of tier gold is always the average of the two tiers that the character could have played. Unless specifically directed otherwise, I will calculate and award OOT gold when the character is out of tier in every scenario I run that doesn't have a listed OOT value.

To be fair, I will hold off on running the Confirmation until this is resolved.

I need to go search through the boards, but based on an earlier discussion of this I was under the assumption there was out-of-tier. I have ran this game near weekly since its release and issued multiple chronicles which had out of tier gold on it; do I need to track down all of these individuals and re-issue new chronicles? Granted in the majority of it is for a level 2 characters who played in the lower tier.

 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Warhaven wrote:
John Compton wrote:

There is no Out of Subtier gold value for this scenario because:

a) The difference between the two values is minimal (approximately 50 gp, if memory serves)
b) The scenario has atypical tiering that covers only two levels. Out of Subtier gold exists in part to bridge the gap between two larger subtiers that are three levels apart.

Closer to 80. Carlos just posted after you that I should have gotten subtier 2 gold, even though the rest of the group was 1st level. I'll be GMing this before long, so I'd like to get this cleared up.

So, to be clear: Regardless of group composition, 2nd level characters always receive subtier 2, and 1st level always receive subtier 1? No OoT gold.

Correct?

I think what John meant was that the difference between in tier and out of tier is less than 50.

The stated policy, in the GMDiscussion thread, is that there is no OoT gold in The Confirmation.

You get the gold for the tier you played.

Mystic Lemur wrote:
To be fair, I will hold off on running the Confirmation until this is resolved.

Well the post from John Compton resolves the issue. No out of tier.

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You want 40 extra gold? Get a day job you bum!

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
John Compton wrote:
There is no Out of Subtier gold value for this scenario ...

This is not explicit.

Carlos Robledo wrote:
And to answer your question, I think you should have received gold for the subtier of your character, not the one played.
FLite wrote:
You get the gold for the tier you played.

I get that adding an "out-of-subtier" reward might have seemed like overkill, but this really would have been a great place to introduce it to new players.

As it is, declaring 'no out of subtier gold' leaves it confusing. I've actually gotten it twice, once with L.2 playing down, and once with L.1 playing up.

 Developer

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Fair enough. I'm convinced.

I've placed adding an out-of-subtier value to the Chronicle sheet to my list of minor changes for this scenario; I have such a list for several scenarios that I hope to revisit once January scenarios are to the editors. In the meantime, go ahead and write in an Out of Subtier value (469 gp) for those who qualify. If you need to subtract gold based on missing rewards, use whichever subtier's notes that the PCs are playing, but naturally the PC should not earn less than 0 gp.

John, thank you for responding. I really do want my chronicles to be the best they can be. From what I am understanding, I am not needing to reissure chronicles now since I did previously Out of Tier gold on them. Is this correct.

Thank you for your time,
Ben F.

John, I want to thank you for the larger implications in this post. I think revisiting scenarios to fix the minor issues that are discovered is a great design decision that is greatly appreciated even though I know it adds to your already considerable workload. I know people have been waiting on fixes to older scenarios for so long that there really isn't much incentive left anymore to fix them, but making changes while the scenario is still popular will help keep them popular longer.

Thanks again, John.

Thank you everyone for responding. I'll let my GM know next time I meet him.

 Developer

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Benjamin F. wrote:

John, thank you for responding. I really do want my chronicles to be the best they can be. From what I am understanding, I am not needing to reissure chronicles now since I did previously Out of Tier gold on them. Is this correct.

Thank you for your time,
Ben F.

I would do what is convenient and sensible. If you already did Out of Subtier gp, you're in great shape. If you didn't do Out of Subtier gold, I have no objection to correcting the 39 gp loss; however GMs are not obligated to reissue sheets and the like over such a small matter.

Re-issuing a Chronicle sheet to someone who has played several scenarios since causes more problems than it solves (especially if it involves sending those Chronicle sheets out via email), but one might add in the extra gold to the player's latest Chronicle sheet with a note about where the extra couple dozen gp came from. Other players might just laugh it off and forgo the extra gold, knowing that in the long run 39 extra gold won't change anything.

 Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Thanks for the clarification, John. :)