[SGG] The Present state of DungeonADay.com


Product Discussion


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At the prompting Owen Stephens, I thought it might be good to make a thread discussing the present state of DAD and it's content and kickstarter and such. The things the current members want to happen, what past members think, and what people who don't have access or haven't heard about the massive megadungeon started by Monte Cook think and desire of the product.

I don't intend this to be a thread to be continually negative towards current and past staff of DAD. Yes, some criticism is warranted and should be aired, but let's try to keep it constructive and look towards creating a discussion of what we want to happen to DAD now and in the future.

My disappointment: My main reason for supporting the DAD kickstarter was keeping the lights on. The delay of new content has never been a big issue, though I have certainly always had confidence that it would arrive eventually. However I pledged at the level that provided the additional benefit of all SGG products released during the subscription time. Admittedly, by now we have passed the point where the subscription should've run out, and it would be fair that the releases should've stopped anyway. But SGG continued with them, just as they continued with access to the site, until they could fulfill all backer rewards. That is, until the Schism of RGG, and since then it seems that SGG hasn't really released anything, and some of the products I most enjoyed are now continued at RGG instead. Admittedly, Owen Stephens has been amazing in this regard, and has started up a list of DAD backers who have received the old product that is now RGG property, and promised to send them coupons for updates. But there is still a disappointment that I'm not getting these anymore.

My worries: That the site shuts down, and all that awesome content is lost save as PDFs owned by old members who have kept them. My biggest concern is less about getting what I paid for, and more the lost legacy of Monte's Masterpiece. At the very least though, I would miss the website, I much preferred running it from the web format than the pdfs which, are not necessarily the best laid out of pdf products.

My hope: I really want DAD to function in a way that keeps it alive, keeps the current content available, and opens it up to spread to more people. I would love to see more content added. Even more so I would love to see the pathfinder update completed. One of the things that strikes me about a website dungeon is that it should be very easy to update and fill in errata and such. A dungeon that could evolve and update as new material becomes available. That wizard who was an 'alchemist' can now be fully restatted as a alchemist class. And such. But more than that, I do want the dungeon to become free, or somehow at least open to new people. It's too awesome of content to be limited to 200+ people.
Also, if i'm putting wishes here, I know it's a massive word count, but a hard copy of Dragon's Delve...Would be a dream book. Or dream volumes. It would sit proudly beside Ptolus, WLD, the complete Tome of Horrors, Slumbering Tsar and Rappan Athuk and other such massive tomes.

Anyway, hoping to open up some discussion on this, clear the air a bit. Owen seems to be very eager to reply about DAD, and while he's not involved perhaps he can shed some light on some issues, and hopefully even Hyrum stops by and at least can see what the current opinion of DAD is.

Scarab Sages Contributor

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Since not everyone will read the DaD forums, here's a short form of what I actually posted there a few days ago:

"I don't have a lot to say, but having responded to several emails in the past few days it occurred to me this might be a better way to get out what information I do have.
Sadly I don't have answers for anyone. When I last spoke to Hyrum (which was October), he said his plan was to finish all the goals himself, which he certainly has the skills to do. However I have had no communication with him since I was bought out of SGG, and he isn't responding to my emails either.
The Player's Guide is done, I even got it laid out before I left SGG, and I don't know why it hasn't been released. I don't have any updates on any other backer goals beyond the "keeping the lights on" main goal which has been fulfilled (so far).
I did receive the rights to a number of SGG pdfs as part of my buyout, and am selling them through Rogue Genius Games. I have updated one of those (The Talented Monk), and may update others as I get time. If anyone who was involved in the Kickstarter would like free copies of those updates (from DriveThruRPG, via a code sent by email) just send me an email to OStephens@aol.com, and I'll send you Talented Monk and put you on the list for any future updates.
Owen K.C. Stephens"

And Hyrum recently posted an update, which I have copied below. I haven't spoken to him recently so this is all the info I have on his current plans:
"A number of you have had your membership expire recently and for that I apologize. I'm in the process of going through each expired membership and extending it. Since it's now just me doing the work it may take a couple of days.
And speaking of just me, given the recent changes with Super Genius I'm also faced with having to reexamine how to complete the last few deliverables and the timeline needed to finish them. I'll post an update in the next couple of weeks to specifically address that situation and what exactly is impacted.
Hyrum."

At this point, I still have hope that DaD supporters will get everything they were promised by SGG.


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I supported the KS to keep the lights on; The SGG-files were a cool bonus, though not the reason for me. I wanted the PFRPG-conversion and yes, I'd consider a cleaned up pdf-version of Dragon's Delve with art etc. a dream-book, if only because I think the dungeon suffers from its presentation, though I understand the limits of the format. In the end, I liked the content, but honestly...was I blown away? No. It's a very good, huge dungeon with a lot of cool stuff going on, but site and presentation (and the fractured nature of the pdfs) detracted from its appeal, at least for me.

I never used the homepage for anything other than to download the pdfs because it is a terrible hassle to navigate and having to log in again after clicking on any link just annoyed me to heck - actually to the point where I was shouting at the screen. Adventureaweek.com has shown how the website-concept can work sans all those annoying login-glitches and I actually check that site MUCH more often. Plus: AaW's bonus content rocks.

Just my 2 cents, mind you!


I admit, things don't seem to be as smooth on the site, for some reason, as from before the kickstarter. I never recall any login issues and was able to use a 'stay logged in' setting that worked fairly well for me. But yeah, it is a bit rougher now.

Material wise, While I do support Adventure-a-week and have even given them a lot of money to get the Rise of the Drow compilation, Nothing I've seen from them has blown me away like the well handled nature of Dragon's delve. Every encounter is interesting and well handled and makes something of the traditional dungeon crawl of repetitive battles and empty rooms into a most wonderful experience. Add in proper integration of the Brindenford material, and it's a megadungeon that can really work as a a setting in itself.

While it could benefit from a modern re-do, ala Adventure-a-week, the material is still some of the best dungeon writing I've had the pleasure of purchasing.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Wait? Some people actually received the SGG pdfs promised as part of the Kickstarter? I never did -- and sent an email to Hyrum at one point asking about them. I eventually shrugged my shoulders and decided that at least I'd kept the lights on for DaD. I just assumed that no one received the pdfs.

The bad thing, though, is that I stopped buying SGG titles because I wasn't sure if I'd ever receive the promised free ones, and I didn't want to purchase what might end up being duplicates.

I'll email Owen at the email address listed above and let him know my situation.

I haven't done a lot with Adventureaweek.com, though I did pledge the Rise of the Drow kickstarter. I would love to see some kind of compiled PDF with bookmarks for DaD -- doesn't even need to be a hardcover, just everything in one place. If I could get it, I'd love for it to be updated to Pathfinder completely and linked to d20pfsrd.


aatea wrote:

Wait? Some people actually received the SGG pdfs promised as part of the Kickstarter? I never did -- and sent an email to Hyrum at one point asking about them. I eventually shrugged my shoulders and decided that at least I'd kept the lights on for DaD. I just assumed that no one received the pdfs.

The bad thing, though, is that I stopped buying SGG titles because I wasn't sure if I'd ever receive the promised free ones, and I didn't want to purchase what might end up being duplicates.

I'll email Owen at the email address listed above and let him know my situation.

I haven't done a lot with Adventureaweek.com, though I did pledge the Rise of the Drow kickstarter. I would love to see some kind of compiled PDF with bookmarks for DaD -- doesn't even need to be a hardcover, just everything in one place. If I could get it, I'd love for it to be updated to Pathfinder completely and linked to d20pfsrd.

Ah, if you joined at the kickstarter and hadn't received guidance, I could understand how you might not know where to find the SGG .pdfs.

They SHOULD be in the store. Below the free Dragon's Delve pdfs for members, above the actual store/add-to-cart area. There should be a number of links to each SGG product. If these links don't lead to a summary of the product and a download link, then i am sorry and yes, you should get in contact with Hyrum.

Shadow Lodge

Carter Lockhart wrote:
They SHOULD be in the store. Below the free Dragon's Delve pdfs for members, above the actual store/add-to-cart area. There should be a number of links to each SGG product. If these links don't lead to a summary of the product and a download link, then i am sorry and yes, you should get in contact with Hyrum.

It is rather dificult to access them when the website logs you out when you try to follow the link 9 times out of 10.

I'll be blunt...I'm beyond caring about Dungeon-A-Day anymore. If they somehow manage to get the Player's Guide finished before my account re-expires for the third or fourth time, I might download it again. Maybe I'll even be able to get it within the first four or five attempts of following a link and then logging back into the site.

Scarab Sages Contributor

aatea wrote:
I'll email Owen at the email address listed above and let him know my situation.

Message received, response (and a lot of free pdf codes) sent.

I also added you to my list of DaD folks who'll get copies of any updates I do of those products.

Scarab Sages Contributor

Kthulhu wrote:
It is rather dificult to access them when the website logs you out when you try to follow the link 9 times out of 10.

While there is absolutely nothing I can do about the website functionality (which was a problem when we got it, and seemed to get worse, and I never understood why nor did any of the people we asked to help us fix it ever figure out what was going on), I do now own the rights to a lot of the pdfs. As with aatea if you can't access them online and still want them let me know and I'll make arrangements to get them to you.

Same with anyone else who backed the DaD Kickstarter and never got their pdfs. Send a note to OStephens@aol.com and I'll work it out.

Note that there are a few pdfs from this timeframe I didn't get the rights to, so I can't forward them to anyone, but it's not many.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
It is rather dificult to access them when the website logs you out when you try to follow the link 9 times out of 10.

I was having this issue too. I decided to download the PDFs of the levels that I didn't have. The site made me log in again (grr). Once I'd downloaded those levels, I tried to download the SGG products again -- and it worked! I didn't get that weird "you have to log in" message every time I clicked on the link. I'm using Firefox 26.0 -- hopefully this will help you too!


Oddly enough, I really haven't had these huge login issues myself.

Scarab Sages Contributor

Some people did, and some people didn't. Some folks did when we first took over the site, and it seems like the number increased over time. No one working with SGG ever had the problem or could recreate it (one big reason, I suspect, no one could ever help us solve it back then), but lots of users clearly did.


I found that I had the problem of repeated logins required if I went to the main page, logged in there, and then went to the store page. If I went to the store page before logging in, and logged in from there, I did not have the repeated requests to login.

I'm not sure that helps at this point, but there it is.


For whatever difference this makes, it appears to be based upon the way cookies are handled in browsers interacting badly with how the dungeonaday.com domain operates.

I think that if you log into http://dungeonaday.live.subhub.com/, things "just work," but if you log in any other place, you get seemingly random prompts to log back in.

Technical analysis:
Logins are handled via a cookie set in the browser. Cookies can't be set for other domains, so a cookie set on "dungeonaday.com" will only be sent to other dungeonaday.com URIs. Most of the DungeonADay content is eventually linked through to dungeonaday.live.subhub.com (or sometimes dungeonaday.ssl.subhub.com), which is not permitted to see "dungeonaday.com" cookies. At the same time, "dungeonaday.com" cannot set any cookies for any "subhub.com" domains. Once you're properly logged in on any subhub.com domain, which includes both "dungeonaday.live.subhub.com" and "dungeonaday.ssl.subhub.com," the cookies will be sent to the other subhub.com URIs, and you'll stay logged in (until the cookie expires or the webserver forgets about the cookie or something else, all of which can mysteriously complicate the situation).

This could be averted, but it would need some technical help from SubHub, who doesn't seem to quite understand the problem, as far as I can tell.

Urath DM said wrote:
I'm not sure that helps at this point, but there it is.

As it were.


bstern-
Your analysis is well thought out, however, it does not match reality on the site. Perhaps, as is often the case with difficult bugs, it is more than one issue which is confusing the technicians in their attempt to fix it. For example, when the technicians attempt to recreate the bug, they have been unsuccessful. Once they were logged in, they had no problems. While I have had difficulties myself, some difficulties sort of made sense, but others were just random. There was no pattern to why I was suddenly asked to resign in again. Now before you completely discount my ramblings, please be aware that I too am a technician and quite often I am able to make a coherent bug report that makes enough sense for the other end to identify the problem and fix it if it were possible. Unfortunately, I know nothing about the domain naming scheme, permissions, authentication method, or IP scheme of the dungeon a day site. I find it difficult to provide my own pet theory without the additional info (and probably more). Right now, I classify it as "it just does not work".


Thedmstrikes,

Since I can't log in at all right now, I think it's moot. It's definitely a complex problem, and one that I don't have the tools to solve.

Hopefully subscriber access will get restored, even with buggy logins.


I'd make sure you've e-mailed Hyrum if you're still having trouble. I e-mailed right away and I've had my connection restored almost from the time of the Kickstarter update post.


(I posted this earlier, but it got eaten over the weekend).

Carter Lockhart wrote:
I'd make sure you've e-mailed Hyrum if you're still having trouble. I e-mailed right away and I've had my connection restored almost from the time of the Kickstarter update post.

I tried emailing Hyrum directly at supergeniusgames.com, but it bounced, which is not especially reassuring. I also left a message via the DungeonADay "contact us" page, so we'll see if that does anything.

Still expired as of now.


Still expired too. No word despite communication attempts via email, FB, DaD, etc.

Really a shame... I was fully prepared to keep supporting the site after the initial year, and it sucks that I'm missing a few pdf's that I've forgotten to download. :(

I'll be reporting the project to Kickstarter on Feb 1 -- Have had enough of the empty promises


I have been trying to contact Hyrum, since 12-29, every three days via the 'contact us'. So far no response.

Everything else I have tried has bounced back.

Scarab Sages Contributor

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Zithal wrote:
it sucks that I'm missing a few pdf's that I've forgotten to download. :(

Zithal there's nothing I can do about the DaD access issues since I am not with SGG anymore, but if you'll pm with with an email and what pdfs you are missing, if they are things I got the rights to from SGG during the buyout, I can send you codes for free copies of those.


I'm sad to hear of the problems, and hope they get fixed. I missed the kickstarter, but have always been interested in DaD, and was glad to see it come back up, as I'd still like to grab a membership as some point and run my players through it. (Just, that point isn't right now, because life events.)


Murph. wrote:
I'm sad to hear of the problems, and hope they get fixed. I missed the kickstarter, but have always been interested in DaD, and was glad to see it come back up, as I'd still like to grab a membership as some point and run my players through it.

Given that existing accounts don't seem to be getting reactivated in a timely fashion (mine isn't reactivated yet, for example), I would not be confident in giving the site money at this point.


Yup. No updates on the website or social media. No responses on the regular contact links. Hyrum seems to be MIA which does not bode well for DaD which is a real shame.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I am in the process of running Dragons Delve and in going through my files figured out I have some issues with corrupted files (the entire level 7 pdf most notably) and that somehow i missed downloading all of the maps without labels because i had assumed those were incorporated into the 'level' pdfs.

Has anyone heard where the state of the site is at currently? Or wheb the kickstarter rewards will be delivered?


Basically the present state is that there will be no delivery on the promised KS updates. The site still will operate for subscriptions for access. Don't know about any downloads available.

Unless the site has gone offline...I haven't really checke into it since I choose not to sign up for additional site access.

I hope my files aren't corrupted.


I wish I had news on this, but I haven't heard an thing since I left SGG.


A quick peek around the site shows it does appear still functional on a fairly reduced subscription access model ($5/month, $50/year). I have my doubts about site functionality though as just from browsing the non-member links has lead to some dead links that lead to the now defunct www.dungeonaday.com domain instead of dungeonaday.live.subhub.com

It's a bit sad really. Dragon's delve is certainly a great Mega-Dungeon. Still, can always hope it'll pull a Razor Coast one of these days. It has some prime spots for greater pathfinder conversion, especially mythic integration in very obvious points.

Owen, unsure if you're able to answer this, but was there a legal hindrance to re-formatting Monte's original work in .pdf or book form that prevents Dragon's Delve from being widely available outside the website subscription format? Aside from SGG apparently not wanting to do much with it and RGG obviously not having an ownership stake in it anymore. Just a purely personal curiosity if the hypothetical Dragon's Delve Mega-Book would be even theoretically possible.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I took a chance and resubscribed (only $5!). I was surprised the site let me do it but after a few hours of poking around and deciphering how to get past broken links I was able to download almost everything I was missing and replace the stuff I already had that was corrupted.

It is a shame that the site is in such bad shape and the Kickstarter rewards were never delivered, but it is a great dungeon and even though I paid a lot for it with my original subscription I am happy to have the missing pieces filled in for another $5.


I love this dungeon, and subscribed for the first two or so years of its existence (long enough to see it completed), and I also lost parts to corruption after a hard drive crash (levels 17-20, in my case). If it's still possible to re-subscribe for a short period of time and replace what was lost, I may take that route.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

You can sign up with a monthly subscription for $5/month. Just cancel before the month is up and it will only be $5.

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