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A fellow player is interested in building a PC completely focused on Knowledge checks. Basically, highest knowledge bonus possible, for all knowledge checks.
For this:
20 Point Buy.
Any Pathfinder race, without racial hit die(so no Ogre).
All books, and playtest classes available.
4th Level.
Any suggestions?
Well, bard immediately comes to mind...
I thought alchemist might be a better way to go (more skill points) but they don't get the class skills.
You're probably best off going straight wizard. Pump Int as high as you can (18+2) and go human for the extra skill. That gives you 8 skills at a +9 bonus at level 1. Focus on upping int to fill in those last couple of knowledges and increasing the modifier for all of them. This has the side effect if making a very powerful wizard, so he'll be effective in battle too.
EDIT: oh, 4th level. Well, wealth by level says 6000 gold, so a +2 Int item is assumed. That's 10 skills at +13. You can start throwing in traits and skill focus feats to enhance but I haven't been able to find anything that gives a bonus to all knowledge checks at once.
I've been playing an Oracle of Lore, and he's pretty much blown every knowledge check out of the water.
Is there anything that will allow him to take 10 at anytime?
I believe the inquisitor can with one of its abilities.
EDIT: investigator, not inquisitor.
The final step in the path does, but only when using knowledge to identify creatures. So 4 feats (imp unarmed strike prereq) and you get it at level 12 (knowledge arcana 12 prereq).
The 5th level Bard ability Lore Master lets you take 10 on any Knowledge check at any time. Elves have a racial Intelligence bonus and can take a feat called Breadth of Experience, which gives a +2 Bonus on all Knowledge and Profession checks, so an Elf Bard would probably serve well.
True, Bard would be the way to go if he didn't mind being nothing but a walking library. My concern is: what's he do in a fight?
Are there any bard archetypes that get int as a casting and performance stat?
Bard. Use INT as a secondary stat, ie CHA, INT, CON and who cares afterwards.
What does a Bard do in a Fight? Ever play a bard or have a good one in party? Bards don't succeed in fights so much as make fights a cakewalk for everyone else. If the fights are balanced, the Bard makes them easy, if the fights are hard, the bard makes them balanced. [redacted snippy comments before publication]
1) Bards get +1/2 Level to Knowledge Checks
2) Bards get all Knowledges as Class Skills
3) Bards get 6+INT Skills per level. (So, a INT 12 Bard gets as many Skill Points as a INT 20 Wizzy)
In addition, look at the Feat Breadth of Experience (+2 to all Knowledge and Craft rolls.)
A Catfolk bard’s favored class bonus is what you really want. Add +1/2 to the bard's bardic knowledge bonus. This essentially gives you +1 per level to all knowledge skills.
Take the feat Noble Scion of Lore: You gain a +1 bonus on all Knowledge skills in which you have at least 1 rank
Also pick up Heroism as a second level spell. The +2 bonus also applies to skills.
If your spells are mainly buff and utility then you don’t need a sky high CHA. This will allow you to put more into INT for more skill points.
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Human will net you a bonus feat and an extra skill rank/level, which is why human is seen as the strongest pathfinder class. Archaeologist has their luck ability to skill checks, but I'd stray away from it because it doesn't buff as well. At first level, Noble Scion of Lore, as already mentioned, grants a +1, and the Scion of Peace get CHA to Initiative letting you go quicker and tell the party what it is. Human can also take Focused Study alt. racial trait and get Skill Focus as a bonus feat 3 times throughout your career if you know what knowledge will be best.
I dunno, since Investigator is open he may give the Bard a run for his money.
He's already Int based, so it's likely to be one of his higher stats.
He can also make Knowledge checks untrained at 3rd level.
At 11th level he can take Eidetic Recollection, which lets him Take 10 even while distracted, etc. AND ALSO Take 20 by spending Inspiration (so more potential uses of Lore Master, basically, but with the drawback that it comes later).
As long as he has ranks in all Knowledges, he can add 1d6 (or 1d8 later) to every check he makes, from 1st level, as a Free action, even when he Takes 10 or 20.
He also has 6 skill ranks a level.
Now, he comes together a bit later, but I think once you hit 11 and have the Bard's main advantage, Investigator is the better option for super Knowledge guy.
Now, for general party benefit, along with still amazing Knowledge checks, Bard is still miles better. The Investigator brings little to the table combat wise, either in buffing or attacking.
Race-wise? In either case, probably Human with Focused Study. Can't beat multiple free Skill Focuses for boosting your Knowledge monkey.
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Bard Skill Monkey. Not particularly impressive, but I think what you want.
Edit: Hilarious - my girlfriend and I are going snowboarding this weekend, and she is looking into lesson (if we can get up there with the storm). I'm on her laptop so I goes I copy/paste failed. Well, its corrected now!
Bard Skill Monkey. Not particularly impressive, but I think what you want.
Looking to take up snowboarding by chance, broken zenith?
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In my mind your standard Bard is your best option, for all the reasons already mentioned.In addition to taking 10 on all knowledge checks Lore Master also lets you take 20 on once/day at level 5 and up to three times at lvl 17. And at level 1 Bards can make any Knowledge check untrained.
I'll plug the Bard again because you can have fantastic knowledge checks without needing to sacrifice utility in other areas.
If you plan around Versatile Performance abilities properly the Bard is probably the best skill monkey in the game. A Performance skill + two others all for the cost of raising one skill is nothing to sneeze at.
As far as combat goes, a good Bard just makes the party ever so much more so. Combat utility comes first in that you are making all those rolls that would have barely missed, now hit, and every attack does just a little bit more damage. Later when you can stack with things like Good Hope and Haste it's just gravy on your biscuit train.
I would also recommend at least one performance that does not involve an instrument so you can still contribute with a bow or a sword, but this is a secondary contribution to the performance and buff/control spells.
Cha is your main stat so Bards are also great talkers, so you can party face if you need to. (Perform Oratory lets you be fantastic at sense motive too.)
Most of the bard archetypes focus on specializing some other aspect of the Bard or combat ability by sacrificing bardic knowledge, so not too much there.
The Oracle of Lore has some great revelations that help, and is probably a good second choice, but as you can see I just love Bards.
True, Bard would be the way to go if he didn't mind being nothing but a walking library. My concern is: what's he do in a fight?
Are there any bard archetypes that get int as a casting and performance stat?
Bear in mind that most bardic performances don't actually require a roll, so you don't usually need to even put any ranks in Perform.
Sounds like the "Cartographer" NPC my players hired to do all the boring stuff so they can hack and slash...
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Well, as I said, archaeologist bard can get luck bonuses to skill checks, but I think that swaps out versatile performance, and I know it swaps out bardic performance, and is a melee archetype. Core probably is the best, or sound striker since that gives up a situational ability for a combat ability.
I had not considered core Bard.
Is that really the best, for this "walking library"?
Class Skills
The bard's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Bardic Knowledge (Ex): A bard adds half his class level (minimum 1) on all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained
Bardic Performance: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired.
Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action.
Inspire Competence (Su): A bard of 3rd level or higher can use his performance to help an ally succeed at a task. That ally must be within 30 feet and be able to hear the bard. The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as she continues to hear the bard's performance. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the bard has attained beyond 3rd (+3 at 7th, +4 at 11th, +5 at 15th, and +6 at 19th). Certain uses of this ability are infeasible, such as Stealth, and may be disallowed at the GM's discretion. A bard can't inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence relies on audible components.
Lore Master (Ex): At 5th level, the bard becomes a master of lore and can take 10 on any Knowledge skill check that he has ranks in. A bard can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally. In addition, once per day, the bard can take 20 on any Knowledge skill check as a standard action. He can use this ability one additional time per day for every six levels he possesses beyond 5th, to a maximum of three times per day at 17th level.
Coupled with feats and traits this an is incredibly good option for knowledge
So...
Feat
1. Breadth of Experience
Although still young for your kind, you have a lifetime of knowledge and training.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, elf, or gnome; 100+ years old.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Knowledge and Profession skill checks, and can make checks with those skills untrained.
2. Scholar
Benefit: Pick any two Knowledge skills. You gain a +2 bonus on these two skills. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these Knowledge skills, the bonus increases to +4 for that skill.
Traits
can take...
secret knowledge (religion trait) +2 trait bonusto a knowledge skill you choose upon 1st roll
scholar of great beyond (regional): +1 trait bonus to history and planes
shackles seafarer +1 trait to nature and geography
mathematical prodigy +1 triat bonus to arcana and engineering
etc.
at 4th level
4 (ranks) +3 (class skill) +2 (breadth of experience) +2 (1/2 bard level)
That is +11 to all knowledge skills without adding in intelligence
Inspire competence adds another +2
There would be a possible +2 to two more knowledge skills from scholar
There could be another +1 trait bonus to up to four more knowledge skills (possibly overlapping with scholar)
So, +13 to all, +14 to two and +16 (perhaps +17 to one instead of 16 to two if secret knowledge is taken) to two more without even factoring in intelligence. Of course, intelligence can be aided by magic items and spells available to a 4th level bard.
Note that you can't use Inspire Competence on yourself.
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This PC is going to be a 5th, or rather, 6th wheel, so being not so great in combat, is somewhat okay.
The larger the party the better the value for mileage you get out of the bards performance. It's worth keeping this in mind. There may be some other specialized cases where a class or archtype can surpass the bard for knowledge, and in a small party they might be the better choice depending on the other characters, but with 5 other characters, I would think that the standard bard is your best choice.
Note that you can't use Inspire Competence on yourself.
Ha, well I look pretty stupid now.
:)
Personally I think of a Loremaster.
Lots of skill points per level if you go wizard first for the high Int.
Not based in skills for a 2 for 1 ranking but "True Lore (Ex)
At 10th level, a loremaster's knowledge becomes vast indeed. Once per day a loremaster can use his knowledge to gain the effect of a legend lore spell or an analyze dweomer spell. If used to create a legend lore effect, this ability has a casting time of 1 minute, regardless of how much information is already known about the subject in question."
Legend Lore
School divination; Level bard 4, inquisitor 6, sorcerer/wizard 6, witch 6; Domain knowledge 7
CASTING
Casting Time see text
Components V, S, M (incense worth 250 gp), F (four pieces of ivory worth 50 gp each)
EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration see text
DESCRIPTION
Legend lore brings to your mind legends about an important person, place, or thing. If the person or thing is at hand, or if you are in the place in question, the casting time is only 1d4 x 10 minutes. If you have only detailed information on the person, place, or thing, the casting time is 1d10 days, and the resulting lore is less complete and specific (though it often provides enough information to help you find the person, place, or thing, thus allowing a better legend lore result next time). If you know only rumors, the casting time is 2d6 weeks, and the resulting lore is vague and incomplete (though it often directs you to more detailed information, thus allowing a better legend lore result next time).
During the casting, you cannot engage in other than routine activities: eating, sleeping, and so forth. When completed, the divination brings legends (if any) about the person, place, or things to your mind. These may be legends that are still current, legends that have been forgotten, or even information that has never been generally known. If the person, place, or thing is not of legendary importance, you gain no information. As a rule of thumb, characters who are 11th level and higher are "legendary," as are the sorts of creatures they contend with, the major magic items they wield, and the places where they perform their key deeds.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/loremaster
Goddang Know-it-all!
You called?
In all seriousness, I would consider a Mindchemist as well. That, however, is just my opinion.
Cloistered Cleric would be interesting. All knowledge skills, Breadth of Knowledge and you can assist other players on their rolls.
catfolk bard. bardic knowledge at +1/level (racial FCB) is crazy good.
An intersting and very useful concept. I think i'll stat a fiew up as NPC's and leadership feat fodder.
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Pageant of the Peacock is hands down the best way to become a knowledge monkey... and it also applies to any Intelligence based skill or check. That's all you really need and it has a very limited investment.
Go one of the Tiefling alternatives that gives a plus to Cha (like Rakshasa) and take the alternate racial that gives you a +4 to Bluff and take Skill Focus: Bluff if you want to as well.
Pageant of the Peacock is hands down the best way to become a knowledge monkey... and it also applies to any Intelligence based skill or check. That's all you really need and it has a very limited investment.
Go one of the Tiefling alternatives that gives a plus to Cha (like Rakshasa) and take the alternate racial that gives you a +4 to Bluff and take Skill Focus: Bluff if you want to as well.
cutting through the gordian knot there, arent ya?
Lore Warden 1/Ki Mystic Monk 4/Lore Warden 1
Lore Warden gives you all knowledge skills as class skills
Ki Mystic gives a +2 to all knowledge skills and you can spend a ki point to get another +4 on top of that.
So starting with a int of 16 you are looking at +12 for knowledge skills you maxed out, and can boost that to a +16 at level 4.
Pageant of the Peacock is hands down the best way to become a knowledge monkey... and it also applies to any Intelligence based skill or check. That's all you really need and it has a very limited investment.
Go one of the Tiefling alternatives that gives a plus to Cha (like Rakshasa) and take the alternate racial that gives you a +4 to Bluff and take Skill Focus: Bluff if you want to as well.
Yep. This'll do it.
Master of Many Styles/2, Mindchemist/2
With kirin style and a crossbow with focus shot makes you very effective in combat
you're getting int to damage 3 times (2 from kirin, 1 from focused shot), which is a nice bonus, but limited to a single attack per turn, and eating your action economy, no?
it also doesnt seem to scale unless you increase your int further.
I was under the impression that the bonuses from Kirin Strike and Focused Shot don't stack since they're both untyped bonuses from the same source (Int modifier).
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Pageant of the Peacock sounds nice, but doesn't seem to lend itself to reactive Knowledge checks, like identifying creatures in combat.
Maybe I missed something.
Master of Many Styles/Mindchemist sounds interesting, but not sure what race would work with it.
Catfolk Bard(with maybe a Urban Ranger dip) sounds fun, but wouldn't a Lore Oracle dip work better than the Ranger dip?
Cloistered Cleric is interesting, but seems it would work better if there was a way to use wisdom for knowledge checks.
By the way, are there any of the ACG Playtest classes that lend themselves to this build?
not to mention going off of your bluff for int skill checks would basically equate to BSing your way through the need of info, and making folks believe you know what you're talking about--you'd be making up your monster info on the spot, and it might be nowhere even close to true.