Magus "Extra Attack" Question


Rules Questions

101 to 119 of 119 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:

Kary, Spell Combat is akin to two-weapon fighting, but with a spell as your off hand attack.

If you have a BAB of +6, you can Swing/Swing/Spell, no problem. Define the off hand attack however you want, as extra or not, but it happens.

At a BAB of +11 it would be Swing/Swing/Swing/Spell.

If such a high level character cast something like Bull's Strength as his spell, then he's only rolling a d20 to hit three times.

But, if the spell was something like Shocking Grasp, he gets to roll a d20 to hit four times.

That's how Spell Combat works.

Wrong example Nefreti, every touch range spell cast on a non friendly target require an attack roll and, if you have the spellstrike ability, can be channelled thought your weapon for a melee attack, even Bull's Strength.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I have never seen a Magus Spellstrike a Bull's Strength before...


If he wanted to cast Bull's Strength on his foe for some twisted reason, yes.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The fact of the matter is that the magus' spell combat and spellstrike abilities are already well worded; there have even been a few clarifications on them, and I believe it's mentioned in the FAQ as well. Your GM, mister OP, very likely simply does not want to contend with their ability to just suddenly annihilate something with a massive burst of damage off a weapon damage + shocking burst crit. This supposed "veteran" backing them is probably just as guilty of this. I like to give the benefit of the doubt, but all of the evidence is in your favor. The only logical conclusion to draw is that they are being deliberately obtuse for the purposes of gimping your character. I recommend that you print out the relevant faqs along with the page they made for the magus on the SRD. If being directly confronted with this evidence doesn't work then you've got little choice; reroll for find a GM that doesn't abuse his position.

Edit: I saw a magus spellstrike baleful polymorph once; turned the target into a six inch tall cow.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:
I have never seen a Magus Spellstrike a Bull's Strength before...

No reason to do that normally, but the system don't make a difference for "combat touch spells" and "non combat touch spells". They all require a touch attack.

You want a (convolute)reason to use Bull's Strength: You have no touch range spells or cantrips available and are fighting a incorporeal beings, so something that will not benefit from bull strength and you need to kill it now or never.
Fairly improbable, but possible.

Liberty's Edge

theshoveller wrote:

You've hit the nail on the head. Touch of Fatigue would be great if you could get it at level 1 or 2, but you can't. By the time you could take it (via Spell Blending, at 3rd) you have enough Frostbite uses to make getting Touch of Fatigue irrelevant.

I get quite a lot out of the non-lethal damage on my Magus, because the +level isn't capped and because demons are immune to Shocking Grasp...

So I'm gathering by this response, that the only spell you use in an adventuring day (read as encounter) is Frostbite? If so, your method here would work wonders, assuming opponents not resistant to cold. The rest of us who have to space our resources over the course of a full adventure day (read as multiple encounters) have need of other spells as appropriate to the situation, which is where Touch of Fatigue shines. Please detail exactly why Touch of Fatigue is irrelevant at 3rd level, I'd really like to understand your logic here...

Apparently you were unaware but demons (as well as daemons and devils for that matter) are ALL resistant to cold (Resist Cold 10). Since the Fatigued condition is tied directly to the cold damage, if it fails to inflict damage on them, then no Fatigue.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I've similarly never seen a Cleric roll to hit an ally with a Cure spell...

But, this is distracting from ganging up on the other guy. Pretend I used a non-touch spell as an example.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:

I've similarly never seen a Cleric roll to hit an ally with a Cure spell...

But, this is distracting from ganging up on the other guy. Pretend I used a non-touch spell as an example.

If the target is friendly you don't need to hit, if the target is unfriendly you need to hit.

Or your cleric hit automatically the undeads when using the cure spells against them?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm kind of confused as to how someone can think spell combat doesn't give you a free attack to deliver the spell you cast. How else are you going to deliver it? You choose between making the touch followed by your normal attacks accrued via BAB OR channel it through the weapon, replacing that free touch attack as part of the spell with a melee weapon attack instead. Where is the difficult part of this to understand? It's pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

Magus has two attacks per round, elects to spell combat + spell strike.

Magus suddenly attacks three times that round with his weapon, twice at full BAB with the -2 from spell combat attached due to treating it as two weapon fighting. One of those two attacks at their full BAB will run shocking grasp through your face and/or chest cavity. Again, this is very easy to interpret from both RAW and RAI perspectives.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Language barrier.

Moving on.


Kary is sort of half-correct. It's true that the Spell Combat ability itself doesn't give you an extra attack.

It does, however, enable you to cast a spell while still taking all of your iteratives, and if that spell is a touch spell then you can utilize Spellstrike to deliver the spell via your weapon. Without Spell Combat, you could not attack and cast a spell in the same round, and without Spellstrike you could not deliver the touch spell via a weapon.

So in the common Magus scenario, those two abilities enable you to make better use of the touch attack granted by the casting.


Xaratherus wrote:

Kary is sort of half-correct. It's true that the Spell Combat ability itself doesn't give you an extra attack.

It does, however, enable you to cast a spell while still taking all of your iteratives, and if that spell is a touch spell then you can utilize Spellstrike to deliver the spell via your weapon. Without Spell Combat, you could not attack and cast a spell in the same round, and without Spellstrike you could not deliver the touch spell via a weapon.

So in the common Magus scenario, those two abilities enable you to make better use of the touch attack granted by the casting.

That's called "being pedantic".


Loving the Magus discussion. Learning so much :D. Wanted to let you all know this matter seems to have finally been resolved in my favor. Will keep updated with any other rules questions.


@PrinceofVisigon: Happy it worked out for you :)
People here are usually really helpful.


PrinceofVisigon wrote:
Loving the Magus discussion. Learning so much :D. Wanted to let you all know this matter seems to have finally been resolved in my favor. Will keep updated with any other rules questions.

Good to hear. I'm always thrilled when logic and good sense win out over ignorance.


Very glad to hear that it worked out in your favor and per the rules, PrinceofVisigon. And I have to echo what Zark said: Despite the fact that we (as a community) sometimes get sidetracked and bogged down in pedantry and wanting to be "right", I've found many helpful answers on the community.


Hey, had 2 quick questions. 1. You only get the "Extra" attack when you combine Spell Strike and Spell Combat (IE can take a full round action) Correct? 2. How many attacks do you get if you have Speed active on your blade? (Level 10. 'Touch Attack', 2 Base Attacks AND Speed attack?)


Here's a full breakdown:

2 iterative attacks.

Spell Combat with a non-touch spell:
Spell/Attack_1/Attack_2
-or-
Attack_1/Attack_2/Spell

Spell Combat with haste/speed:
Spell/Attack_1/Attack_2/Attack_Haste
Spell/Attack_1/Attack_Haste/Attack_2
Spell/Attack_Haste/Attack_1/Attack_2
-or-
Attack_1/Attack_2/Attack_Haste/Spell
Attack_1/Attack_Haste/Attack_2/Spell
Attack_Haste/Attack_1/Attack_2/Spell

Spell combat with a touch spell:
Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)/Attack_1/Atack_2
-or-
Attack_1/Attack_2/Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)

Spell combat with touch spell and haste/speed:
Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)/Attack_1/Attack_2/Attack_Haste
Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)/Attack_1/Attack_Haste/Attack_2
Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)/Attack_Haste/Attack_1/Attack_2
-or-
Attack_1/Attack_2/Attack_Haste/Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)
Attack_1/Attack_Haste/Attack_2/Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)
Attack_Haste/Attack_1/Attack_2/Spell/Attack_Spell(touch or w/ weapon)

The "extra" attack is built into touch spells. You get that extra attack even if you're not using spellstrike, it's just that it's a touch attack just to deliver the spell (like anyone casting a touch spell would get). Spellstrike just means that you have the option that, whenever you'd normally use a touch attack to deliver a touch spell (within certain stated limits; it must be on the Magus list, a touch spell, and must be actually cast and not invoked by scroll, wand, etc barring specific overrides to those requirements), you're making a normal weapon attack that benefits from any attack bonuses that would apply to your weapon (ie. Weapon Focus("your weapon")), you deal the weapon's damage in addition to the touch spell's damage, and the touch spell will crit if the weapon crits.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Kazaan explains it well as usual. I'm baffled why this discussion has lasted this long considering how well these mechanics were clarified by FAQs with support from the core rulebook.

Nefreet wrote:

I've similarly never seen a Cleric roll to hit an ally with a Cure spell...

But, this is distracting from ganging up on the other guy. Pretend I used a non-touch spell as an example.

You don't need to roll for willing targets just as it's assumed willing targets choose to autmatically fail their save against harmless spells. You're still spending a free action to touch your friend. Note that you have a chance to miss if your ally has concealment. If this happens, you hold the cure spell charge and have to spend a standard action to deliver it again.

To reiterate, these are the core rules for touch spells.

101 to 119 of 119 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Magus "Extra Attack" Question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.