New-ish GM looking for advice on an end boss

[Rachel Carter]

Hello there! I have been running a game for a little less than a year now and was running into problems designing an enemy for my 'end boss' for the next part of my game. Here is a quick synopsis of what I was looking to do:

The PCs are hired to participate in a maze/competition. The winning team/team patron gets to rule the city for the next 5 years. Originally it was supposed to promote unity and teamwork, but in the last century it has become more sinister and dangerous until it turned from almost everyone gets out alive to only one team surviving and thus winning.

My ideas were that something sinister get into the maze, which is its own self evolving/semi sentient plane, got to its 'brain' or 'heart' so to speak, and is controlling it to be more dangerous and to turn people against each other, and is stacking the odds in the favour of the team he wants to win. My hopes are that the party will discover this, and will defeat him.

My original thoughts on the enemy was for it to be a vampire as the vampire and undead guild have been in control of the city for the last century and maybe he could be feeding on the maze, or those he kept alive to feed on were linked to the maze and it was sending their memories to adventurers it thought could help in the forms of dreams.

Then I thought a lich would be cool, I liked the idea of the phylactery and thought that destroying it could lead to the party to the next part of the game.

Then I thought vampire lich, but I wasn't sure if this was even possible to apply both templates to the same creature, and if it s, how do you kill is, destroy the phylactery then do the whole vampire killing ritual by staking, beheading and burning it? THEN I thought maybe I was missing something, and maybe there was a better end boss that had nothing to do with either. One thing I really do want though is for him to be somehow influencing and controlling the maze.

The party is starting at level 10. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

[Count Coltello]

Will there be other maze contestants for them to battle as well or will big gods guy be last and only thing

[Rachel Carter]

Count Coltello wrote:

Will there be other maze contestants for them to battle as well or will big gods guy be last and only thing

There will be other teams, and puzzles for them to do, some intellectual, some riddles, and some physical.

The other teams will be mixed in alignment, so some they will want to fight, and others, like half celestials might be harder for them to justify fighting and perhaps they might want to approach them diplomatically

[rorek55]

I've always like the mini boss lead up battle to the bbeg. Make it hard. Make it fun. Make it memorable. Honestly I would say go knight of the sepulcher anti paladin archetype and have then others be under his control

[Kadrion]

I think its a great idea with the brain and heart line of thinking. you could set it up as having vital spots of this maze located in different places and have effects in the maze that are linked to different vital spots. when the players destroy a vital point remove said linked effect from the maze. you could run an amazing adventure with this line of thinking and just have the maze itself be the "boss" as it were.
great idea I like the ingenuity.

[Judgeohno]

I don`t know if this helps, but I occasionally let the End Boss be a bit easier than they expect. If there is a ideal opportunity for one of his henchmen or even Boss to escape and fight another day can help build plot and future story arc. Also, it might sucker them into thinking the next End boss is easy and he/she isn`t. Hope this helps :)

[Duiker]

Lich. The maze itself is its phylactery. You have to destroy the maze to kill the lich. Problem: the maze is under the city, so destroying it destroys the city.

[rorek55]

Duiker wrote:

Lich. The maze itself is its phylactery. You have to destroy the maze to kill the lich. Problem: the maze is under the city, so destroying it destroys the city.

This problem may be solved with ample application of lvl 20, paladin smiteing evil. Lol

[Rachel Carter]

Thanks for the suggestions! I appreciate the help!

[Rachel Carter]

Kadrion wrote:

I think its a great idea with the brain and heart line of thinking. you could set it up as having vital spots of this maze located in different places and have effects in the maze that are linked to different vital spots. when the players destroy a vital point remove said linked effect from the maze. you could run an amazing adventure with this line of thinking and just have the maze itself be the "boss" as it were.

great idea I like the ingenuity.

I like this idea. As they defeat the vital points, the maze could react harsher to them, would you have it fight back, or other things guarding the vital points? When they defeat a vital point, like the heart or brain, or eyes, or whatever, how should that change the environment? If it had Blindsence just say and they destroy the senses would the maze not be able to see whats going on inside it and thus acts accordingly?

[Rachel Carter]

Duiker wrote:

Lich. The maze itself is its phylactery. You have to destroy the maze to kill the lich. Problem: the maze is under the city, so destroying it destroys the city.

Very interesting moral dilemma for the party too, because doing this would kill a lot of innocent people.

[Rachel Carter]

rorek55 wrote:

I would say go knight of the sepulcher anti paladin archetype and have then others be under his control

What would you put under his control to make it a challenging but do-able fight?

[Duiker]

Rachel Carter wrote:

rorek55 wrote:

I would say go knight of the sepulcher anti paladin archetype and have then others be under his control

What would you put under his control to make it a challenging but do-able fight?

There are multiple parties competing, right? So, everyone from other parties in the dungeon that your PCs kill, get raised and have the appropriate undead template tacked onto them as if the antipaladin was a high level necromancer.

This gets to the heart of the moral quandry. The more you simply took the easy way out and killed the competition, the harder the fight is. Sprinkle hints and such throughout, don't just make it a hidden calculation.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Bunch of 10th level PCs, you want a final poss around CR 14, which would be a 13th level lich.

But here's a thought. You know who likes mazes? Baphomet, the Demon Lord of Minotaurs. He lives in the Endless Maze, and he is -- I quote -- "the embodiment of savagery, an insidious force that worms its way into the heart of his followers to deceive them into embracing brutality". YMMV, but that sounds like a pretty good fit to me. Oh, and bonus points: it's canon that Baphomet has a secret cult on Golarion, the Templars of the Ivory Labyrinth.

So the Bad Thing at the center of the maze is something that worships Baphomet. That could be a demon, or a half-fiend, or (my favorite) one or more demon cultists. The demoniac PrC is rather neglected; this could be a chance to take it out for a spin...

Doug M.

[Rachel Carter]

Duiker wrote:

Rachel Carter wrote:

rorek55 wrote:

I would say go knight of the sepulcher anti paladin archetype and have then others be under his control

What would you put under his control to make it a challenging but do-able fight?

There are multiple parties competing, right? So, everyone from other parties in the dungeon that your PCs kill, get raised and have the appropriate undead template tacked onto them as if the antipaladin was a high level necromancer.

This gets to the heart of the moral quandry. The more you simply took the easy way out and killed the competition, the harder the fight is. Sprinkle hints and such throughout, don't just make it a hidden calculation.

I like this, is there a way to make an anti paladin a necromancer too, or make the anti paladin a lich combining your idea in it too where the maze could be the phylactery? Or would that be getting to complicated for my players? I really do like the moral problem though and the consequences

[Rachel Carter]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Bunch of 10th level PCs, you want a final poss around CR 14, which would be a 13th level lich.

But here's a thought. You know who likes mazes? Baphomet, the Demon Lord of Minotaurs. He lives in the Endless Maze, and he is -- I quote -- "the embodiment of savagery, an insidious force that worms its way into the heart of his followers to deceive them into embracing brutality". YMMV, but that sounds like a pretty good fit to me. Oh, and bonus points: it's canon that Baphomet has a secret cult on Golarion, the Templars of the Ivory Labyrinth.

So the Bad Thing at the center of the maze is something that worships Baphomet. That could be a demon, or a half-fiend, or (my favorite) one or more demon cultists. The demoniac PrC is rather neglected; this could be a chance to take it out for a spin...

Doug M.

I was also thinking about having a bunch of minotaurs in it and using the savage species guide from 3.5 to make some different minotaurs and have them wandering the maze. I didn't think of Baphomet though, thats a good thing to think about, thanks!

[Nipin]

How about having an intelligent item with a proclivity (word of the day) toward chaos as the end boss. The item has taken control of past contestants who now enact its will. This leads to a series of combats as you have to take out each of the items wielders to finally take control of the item yourself. With each successfully defeated wielder (which does not require death just that you wrest them from the control of the item), the item teleports itself to the next wielder. I would have the final wielder be a fallen paladin who has fallen due to the chaotic (not evil) influence of the item. This means a group who wants epic and diverse combats can get them and a group who wants more noncombat solutions can get them. The final battle is more a battle for redemption than a battle to the death. I would make the paladin much higher level than the group, but have him regain control occasionally giving the group the chance to see his true nature and to decide if they should grant him a merciful death or try to free him from the item.

Sorry that ended up a bit long winded. The basic idea is the BBEG is a chaotic intelligent item which is simply controlling random participants to further the chaos of his realm (the maze) and the maze has now become a twisted path where the very laws of our reality may even be beginning to breakdown (this becomes more true nearer to the heart of the maze).

[Rachel Carter]

Nipin wrote:

How about having an intelligent item with a proclivity (word of the day) toward chaos as the end boss. The item has taken control of past contestants who now enact its will. This leads to a series of combats as you have to take out each of the items wielders to finally take control of the item yourself. With each successfully defeated wielder (which does not require death just that you wrest them from the control of the item), the item teleports itself to the next wielder. I would have the final wielder be a fallen paladin who has fallen due to the chaotic (not evil) influence of the item. This means a group who wants epic and diverse combats can get them and a group who wants more noncombat solutions can get them. The final battle is more a battle for redemption than a battle to the death. I would make the paladin much higher level than the group, but have him regain control occasionally giving the group the chance to see his true nature and to decide if they should grant him a merciful death or try to free him from the item.

cool idea, how do you make an intelligent item? how does it change the weilder?

[Douglas Muir 406]

A glabrezu demon is a tempter, right? Put a glabrezu (maybe polymorphed into something harmless looking) in the middle of this maze. If your PCs are powerful for their level, or very experienced, make it advanced or give it some levels of something.

Now, the glabrezu picks a favored party early on. But it tries to set things up so that the path to victory requires them to make evil choice -- corruption, betrayal, brutal violence that goes beyond simple combat. It may contact the PCs and offer them deals. If the PCs are mostly good-aligned, that's fine; it'll tell them lies and try to get them to commit evil acts. Note that the rival parties should be a mix of good and evil, so the glabrezu can convincingly argue that if the PCs don't win, the bad guys will instead. Of course, it's making the same argument to the others...

The maze is a demiplane; it's unclear whether it was created by Baphomet or stolen by his followers from somewhere else. The maze's alignment is CN and it radiates faint chaos throughout. It can be magically attuned to a controller who is sufficiently powerful. The controller must be a nonlawful creature with 6 or more HD. Only one creature can attune at a time, of course... details TBD, but if the PCs get all the way through and kill the glabrezu, getting their own demiplane could be an interesting bonus reward. Of course, Baphomet may not appreciate a bunch of upstart adventurers snitching one of his entertainment centers, so this is a pretty good way to ensure that he has people coming after you down the line.

Anyway: whoever is attuned to the maze has all sorts of powers inside it. They can see whatever is happening, project their voice and image (or false images), speak to individuals telepathically, move the walls of the maze around, and the like. There are probably some nasty monsters and traps in the maze that can be moved towards a particularly troublesome group of intruders. And finally, while inside the maze, the controller gets some minor but useful bonuses to stuff like AC, SR, and initiative (as if the maze is somehow looking after him) -- I'd say roughly equivalent to a CR +1 template, but season to taste.

What else... well, the Cult of the Ivory Labyrinth should have infiltrated one or more of the candidate groups. Cultists believe they'll come through safely no matter what happens. (This may or may not be true, basically depending on whether the glabrezu is feeling whimsical today.) If the cultists can't get an NPC on the PC's team, they might alternatively try to sabotage equipment, remove spell component pouches, dose PCs (or their animal companions or familiars) with slow acting poisons, and the like. So, what seems like a straightforward competition between teams could quickly degenerate into complete spiralling paranoia, if that's the way you want to take it.

Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

Doug M.

[MagusJanus]

For making the boss memorable...

Have you seen the Pirates of the Caribbean movies? Specifically, Captain Barbosa and how he hams it up?

Make your BBEG like that. Have him overact, have him dancing in the middle of combat while launching spells at people, have him laughing maniacally... Your players will remember him. You can even justify his actions by suggesting that, maybe, being in the maze this entire time has made him just a bit crazy...

[rorek55]

Rachel Carter wrote:

Nipin wrote:

How about having an intelligent item with a proclivity (word of the day) toward chaos as the end boss. The item has taken control of past contestants who now enact its will. This leads to a series of combats as you have to take out each of the items wielders to finally take control of the item yourself. With each successfully defeated wielder (which does not require death just that you wrest them from the control of the item), the item teleports itself to the next wielder. I would have the final wielder be a fallen paladin who has fallen due to the chaotic (not evil) influence of the item. This means a group who wants epic and diverse combats can get them and a group who wants more noncombat solutions can get them. The final battle is more a battle for redemption than a battle to the death. I would make the paladin much higher level than the group, but have him regain control occasionally giving the group the chance to see his true nature and to decide if they should grant him a merciful death or try to free him from the item.

cool idea, how do you make an intelligent item? how does it change the wielder?

look at the end section of the magic items sections of the CRB. (before cursed items section) has it all there.

anti paladins gain control undead via spells IIRC, (animate dead) the channel feat control undead. and item enhancements with control undead. Also, you could take levels of cleric but eh. you can hand waive the KotS has animate dead or the like if he doesn't to make a more powerful boss. I am running a game similar, where there are 3 main villains and one BBEG (anti-paladin) they work for. the 3 villains level up with the party and show up several times each. one was a undead raising cleric, a necromancer wizard, and an undead sorcerer. They eventually are killed by the party and then raised as vampires via the anti-paladin for the final boss fight. (social options and good rolls/RP can have them actually turn, well the sorcerer at least, so the boss fight is easier)

some of the my most memorable boss fights as a player are the ones where we almost lost, but, (whether GM fudging or no) we pulled off some epic come from behind victory.

[Sir Culer]

If you are looking for a BBEG with a little more of a unique flavor, I'd go for a Veiled Master. These creepy aberrations have direct ties to Aboleth who have long desired mastery over mankind. Having a bunch of Symbol spells and escape options like teleport and dimension door along with a detailed understanding of the maze and Fast Healing would be really rough for a party to track down in a place like this.

[Duiker]

Rachel Carter wrote:

Duiker wrote:

Rachel Carter wrote:

rorek55 wrote:

I would say go knight of the sepulcher anti paladin archetype and have then others be under his control

What would you put under his control to make it a challenging but do-able fight?

There are multiple parties competing, right? So, everyone from other parties in the dungeon that your PCs kill, get raised and have the appropriate undead template tacked onto them as if the antipaladin was a high level necromancer.

This gets to the heart of the moral quandry. The more you simply took the easy way out and killed the competition, the harder the fight is. Sprinkle hints and such throughout, don't just make it a hidden calculation.

I like this, is there a way to make an anti paladin a necromancer too, or make the anti paladin a lich combining your idea in it too where the maze could be the phylactery? Or would that be getting to complicated for my players? I really do like the moral problem though and the consequences

I think that's a fantastic idea. Take the appropriate level lich for your party to be facing, and make them a necromancer. I haven't played one, but I know there are rules for numbers of hit dice you can control, and what sort of undead template gets applied to the raised creature (i.e. skeletal, bleeding skeleton, etc.).

Use the NPC Codex to stat out easily the complete roster of each of the competing parties, and create the undead versions of each in advance.

[Nipin]

Rachel Carter wrote:

Nipin wrote:

How about having an intelligent item with a proclivity (word of the day) toward chaos as the end boss. The item has taken control of past contestants who now enact its will. This leads to a series of combats as you have to take out each of the items wielders to finally take control of the item yourself. With each successfully defeated wielder (which does not require death just that you wrest them from the control of the item), the item teleports itself to the next wielder. I would have the final wielder be a fallen paladin who has fallen due to the chaotic (not evil) influence of the item. This means a group who wants epic and diverse combats can get them and a group who wants more noncombat solutions can get them. The final battle is more a battle for redemption than a battle to the death. I would make the paladin much higher level than the group, but have him regain control occasionally giving the group the chance to see his true nature and to decide if they should grant him a merciful death or try to free him from the item.

cool idea, how do you make an intelligent item? how does it change the weilder?

Here is a sample intelligent item (roughly put together). Which has the power to dominate at will as well as an exceedingly high ego (meaning a difficult will save to control the item). This is nearly an artifact level item, but a lesser item wouldn't fit the bill (imo). I wouldn't be too concerned of the party using the item since it can gain control over the wielder which makes this as much of a liability as an asset.

The item has a special purpose which is "defeat all", I interpret this to be that the item is seeking to dominate other to further its cause of spreading chaos.

Weapon of Chaos:

Weapon of Chaos
Cost: 198,600gp
Ego: 30
Base Item: +2 Anarchic Longsword (32,300gp base price, +4 ego)
Intelligent Item Modifiers:

• Intelligent item (+500 gp)
  
• Senses (120 ft.) (+1,000 gp )
  
• Blindsense (+5,000 gp, +1 ego)
  
• Telepathy (+1,000 gp and +1 ego)
  
• 20 int/wis/cha (+24,000gp and +15 ego)
  
• Item can change into one other form (shortspear) of the same size (+10,000 gp, +2 ego)
  
• Item can cast 1st level spell (charm monster) 3/day (+1,200 gp, +1 ego)
  
• Item can cast 4th level spell 3/day (dimension door) (+33,600 gp, +2 ego)

special purpose: defeat all, item attempts to gain control of all others and use them to generate chaos (+2 ego)
special purpose power: item can use 5th level spell (dominate person) at will (+90,000 gp and +2 ego)

[TwoSai]

Going along with what others have been saying. Rooms with themes? Each gives the bbeg an extra power and if u destroy the power source the bbeg gets weaker. The players have to get some info beforehand or while in the maze from another team about this effect. Then they have to figure out what the totem to destroy in each room is biased off of context clues of what the room is and the possible power being granted. the more they find on the way the easier the bbeg will be. Have some traps so they can't just go destroying everything in the room.

edit* kinda ninjaed. didn't refresh after leaving the computer open for a while before posting.