Can you make a kick a$$ bard?


Advice


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I have a gnome bard built in a 15 point buy, and skill I want.

But can a bard be made to actually do damage?


Yes, be an archer and take all the archery feats.


Do you want build suggestions, or do you want us to improve upon your character concept?


It's difficult.
Step one is to die because gnomes are only good for casters and cavaliers. Doing 1d4-1 or 1d4-2 damage with a shortbow sucks.

Step two is to get reincarnation not resurrection. Hope for bugbear, gnoll, or orc, but anything except troglodyte that gets rid of the strength penalty will make you a better archer.

Melee pretty much requires a strength build with power attack, which you probably won't be able to do even with the 6 point strength increase going to bugbear, gnoll, or orc would give you unless you have the sort of stat array I can't imagine someone using on a non-cavalier gnome unless they picked their race off a dartboard after setting their stats.

Silver Crusade

Bard damage? Dawn flower dervish or dervish dancer. Or possible arcane duelist. For ranged go normal then arcane Archer


rorek55 wrote:
Bard damage? Dawn flower dervish or dervish dancer. Or possible arcane duelist. For ranged go normal then arcane Archer

He's got a pre-existing character to fix so all of that is out. Except arcane archer, but arcane archer stops his inspire courage progression, slows his spell progression, and slows his caster level which impacts arcane strike. Arcane Archer doesn't deliver for bards.


No. No. All of you guys are fine I wanted to use gnome but me being stupid finally clicked the advice character guide. So I built the Elf Archer bard. it seems good. I mean I still get some spells and damage during combat, I also get most of the skills I want. We have not started yet, The game starts next Wednesday the campaign is second darkness.

Str 14
dex 17
con 10
int 12
wis 7
cha 14

feats Point-blank shot.

Traits: We are required one second darkness trait, so I went with looking for work perform (string instrument) just cause I like the Idea of a violin playing bard. second trait rich parents

Weapons:I bought a Composite long bow +2.


Arcane Strike bonuses increase with your character level, not caster level.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rayhan wrote:

No. No. All of you guys are fine I wanted to use gnome but me being stupid finally clicked the advice character guide. So I built the Elf Archer bard. it seems good. I mean I still get some spells and damage during combat, I also get most of the skills I want. We have not started yet, The game starts next Wednesday the campaign is second darkness.

Str 14
dex 17
con 10
int 12
wis 7
cha 14

feats Point-blank shot.

Traits: We are required one second darkness trait, so I went with looking for work perform (string instrument) just cause I like the Idea of a violin playing bard. second trait rich parents

Weapons:I bought a Composite long bow +2.

If you haven't started the game this is indeed a way to go. You'd be better off human for the bonus feat to get precise shot at level 1. Being two levels ahead on the feat chain is better than the difference between a composite longbow and a composite shortbow. Rich Parents is a terrible trap since it does nothing in the long term and you're better off struggling through level 1 with a normal longbow (or shortbow as a human) and buying the composite +2 with wealth you earn in game. The Arcane Duelist archetype is also a good idea to save a feat on arcane strike. Your perform should be Oratory or Sing so you can eventually qualify for Discordant Voice, which is a very strong feat.

Warrior of Old or Reactionary are good traits for +2 init to start performing sooner and probably the best thing you can get from a trait, though armor expert can mean +1 AC from the difference in max dex between elven chain and a mithril breastplate.

I'd suggest a human plan of
1 PBS, Precise Shot
3 Rapid Shot
5 arcane strike
7 deadly aim
9 manyshot
11 discordant voice
13 clustered shots
15 improved precise shot

Arcane Duelist can free up a feat and I suggest moving deadly aim up and maybe using level 7 for weapon focus or great fortitude.

An non-human isn't going to fit everything in without arcane duelist.

Javaed wrote:
Arcane Strike bonuses increase with your character level, not caster level.

This is only true if you have a racial arcane SLA. Which I suppose gnome does, but AA is still a terrible deal and by saying that without caveat you're potentially misleading people using forum search in the future.

AA loses out on performance. It gains a little BAB, but misses the damage boosts, increased accuracy and damage for your allies and their summons, and the reductions in activation action. Your actual spell progression and caster level are still delayed.

Entering a caster PrC with a non-full casting base class is almost never a good idea and this is no exception.

Shadow Lodge

Javaed wrote:
Arcane Strike bonuses increase with your character level, not caster level.

I beg to differ:
Arcane Strike (Combat)

You draw upon your arcane power to enhance your weapons with magical energy.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.

Benefit: As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.


Being a 3/4 bab class, bards need all the bonuses to hit they can get, so weapon focus seems a good idea for a human arcane duelist.

Regarding arcane duelist, I'm not super keen on arcane bond for a bard because the weapon must be wielded to cast any spells. Personally I'd train out of that ability, but it might still be useful depending on your GM.


You could go 1-5 Gunslinger and use a rifle/pistol. You could devote more points into CHA, and pretty much always hit vs. touch ac.

Shadow Lodge

i wouldnt go Arcane Archer, the only real reason to choose it as a class is for shooting targets with antimagic fields. other then that its not a great PrC (cool art though)

a PrC that could work well for you is an EK, if you wanted to focus on gishing and losing out on some of your spell casting. gain feats, fighter only access, as well as the holy grail of a free swift action cast at level 10.


Cubic Prism wrote:
You could go 1-5 Gunslinger and use a rifle/pistol. You could devote more points into CHA, and pretty much always hit vs. touch ac.

This is a fun way to go, actually. I saw a character in a game I played in that was a Dawnflower Dervish who danced between firing a pistol and dropping it with a weapon cord and using a scimitar. She was a Bard/Gunslinger/Magus, though the player did say he'd drop the Magus if he rebuilt.


Daelen wrote:
Cubic Prism wrote:
You could go 1-5 Gunslinger and use a rifle/pistol. You could devote more points into CHA, and pretty much always hit vs. touch ac.
This is a fun way to go, actually. I saw a character in a game I played in that was a Dawnflower Dervish who danced between firing a pistol and dropping it with a weapon cord and using a scimitar. She was a Bard/Gunslinger/Magus, though the player did say he'd drop the Magus if he rebuilt.

How do you build a bard gunslinger? also are guns and ammo even in Second darkness?


TheSideKick wrote:

i wouldnt go Arcane Archer, the only real reason to choose it as a class is for shooting targets with antimagic fields. other then that its not a great PrC (cool art though)

a PrC that could work well for you is an EK, if you wanted to focus on gishing and losing out on some of your spell casting. gain feats, fighter only access, as well as the holy grail of a free swift action cast at level 10.

No. EK is bad for bards. You lose nearly as much in inspire courage bonuses as you'd gain from the change in BAB and you also lose the damage boost, the increased benefits to your allies and their summons, and slow down your casting by two levels


Go duelist as you get some great anti-caster free feats. Also in the long run you'll want to use the greater invisibility plus cloak of dreams - sleep - couple de grace combo.

Virtuoso Performance and then Shadow Bard will allow you to have 2 performances running so you can courage everyone plus blade thirst yourself too.

Get a +2 weapon and use bladethirst to pump it to +4 and use the courageous weapon property to turn your heroism/good hope buffs from +2 to +4 can-this works for all moral bonuses.

Pump UMD (+ circlet of persuasion) and use scrolls of Form of the Dragon to turn into a killing machine.


One other thing to consider is the size of the party. If you've only got 4 then an Archer build is a little inconsiderate as it may force others into more combat than they may be bargaining for and standing at the back isn't good for basic performance ranges either. Just a thought.


Rayhan wrote:
Daelen wrote:
Cubic Prism wrote:
You could go 1-5 Gunslinger and use a rifle/pistol. You could devote more points into CHA, and pretty much always hit vs. touch ac.
This is a fun way to go, actually. I saw a character in a game I played in that was a Dawnflower Dervish who danced between firing a pistol and dropping it with a weapon cord and using a scimitar. She was a Bard/Gunslinger/Magus, though the player did say he'd drop the Magus if he rebuilt.

How do you build a bard gunslinger? also are guns and ammo even in Second darkness?

I can't speak on Second Darkness, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, there are no guns in that one. However, to answer your first question, you take the Mysterious Stranger archetype for the Gunslinger and you only need 1 or 2 levels in the class. The rest can be Bard, and you focus on Dex and Charisma.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

A gnome bard would have worked fine if you have an Agile weapon. Unfortunately bows are Str based, so if you want an archer bard, don't be a gnome.
Remember that using Arcane Strike takes a swift action. Can be important in later levels.
Bards excel at buffing themselves. If you are a Finesse fighter, you can get by just fine with a low str score, it won't penalize you much, and when you get an Agile weapon, it becomes irrelevant.
Make it even better, pick up Butterfly Sting and hand your crits away to the guy with the Greataxe.

Just remember that you aren't a melee tank, but can buff to that level if given time, and you'll be fine.

==Aelryinth


The human bard archer has been suggested and I agree. Here is a detailed build of a bard archer I would suggest. Optimized Bard Archer


Also, the soundtriker and dawnflower dervish was mentioned. Why not play both at the same time? Optimized Soundstriker/Dawnflower Dervish

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