Making conventions big again


Pathfinder Society

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5/5 5/55/55/5

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Most of the ideas here seem to be trying to make local game days worse rather than making cons better.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

I will say that Dragon's Demand is not really appropriate for a convention setting. I'm curious to see what Wardens of the Reborn Forge will look like.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Netopalis wrote:
I will say that Dragon's Demand is not really appropriate for a convention setting. I'm curious to see what Wardens of the Reborn Forge will look like.

I can't wait to get my grubby little mits on Wardens of the Reborn Forge!

...*ahem* Sorry about that. Don't know what came over me.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

BigNorseWolf wrote:
trollbill wrote:
I mean, if all online PFS players wanted was to play games online, why are they playing PFS? There are plenty of fantasy MMOs out there that would fit the bill and do a much better job of online play, including a Pathfinder MMO.

Well, the pathfinder MMO isn't out yet. But that aside playing online is NOT like an MMO. My regular online group (which by freaky coincidence i was playing with for about a month before realizing they were also a local group) does more role playing than I usually see at PFS or even some home games because we don't need to rush through the scenario before the places closes.

Playing online with a virtual tabletop is NOT like an MMO, at all. You're not level grinding, doing random quests, or gathering, and you actually get to make your character do anything you could at a tabletop, including creative solutions that computers can't handle.

So would you rather play online with these people, or play face to face with them at a Con. Assuming all other things being equal?

Quote:
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This would indicate that if Cons are a viable option for them, then they would choose that over online play.

Cons are very expensive. Even with having both ends of a train station within walking distance, I'm looking at either commuting 2 hours each way at 32 bucks a day, or paying 130 bucks a night for a hotel room. Con attendance, food, drinks, it adds up.

Well, all of that does factor into the viability.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

One of the top 10 ideas on my list when I was hired was to set up regional specials that VCs would oversee the writing and editing and distribution of. However, that is no longer on the table due to the behavior displayed by a fair number of PFS participants.

I will advise that we receive a fair amount of vitriolic feedback both here on the public message boards and in emails, about boons that are only available at conventions. I imagine if we authorized regional scenarios, specials, or events, the negative feelings (sometimes expressed in VERY hateful and threatening emails currently) would only become worse. For that reason alone, it is currently a non-starter.

It would take a GREAT DEAL of good reasons to even get me to consider opening up a dialogue for that type of convention support.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Michael Brock wrote:

One of the top 10 ideas on my list when I was hired was to set up regional specials that VCs would oversee the writing and editing and distribution of. However, that is no longer on the table due to the behavior displayed by a fair number of PFS participants.

I will advise that we receive a fair amount of vitriolic feedback both here on the public message boards and in emails, about boons that are only available at conventions. I imagine if we authorized regional scenarios, specials, or events, the negative feelings (sometimes expressed in VERY hateful and threatening emails currently) would only become worse. For that reason alone, it is currently a non-starter.

It would take a GREAT DEAL of good reasons to even get me to consider opening up a dialogue for that type of convention support.

I don't expect my thoughts to sway you, but I would like to chime in on this subject anyhow.

As far as I have seen, you and John are solid leadership for PFS. Your rulings are fair, you listen to all reasonable things we have to say, and you play and care about the game and society too. I think that what you wrote above is a cool idea. Unfortunately, you can't please everyone. Even more unfortunately, human beings like to throw a fit when things don't go their way. In my personal opinion, Americans in particular are awfully coddled these days. It's just the way things are.

Me personally? I'd say let them throw a fit and go through with your cool idea that most any reasonable adult wouldn't have a problem with. From my perspective, what your character has that mine does not cannot ruin my enjoyment. Things that can ruin my enjoyment would be GMs making unfair or biased calls (works for guy A, but not guy B), or a GM intent on providing a miserable experience for a player. As long as there was some measure of equality in the boons, I can't see why this should be a problem.

I appreciate that your concerns in this matter are more significant than my own, but I just thought I'd toss that out there regardless.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Mattastrophic wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
However, that is no longer on the table due to the behavior displayed by a fair number of PFS participants.

Well, that's a shame. It's unfortunate that the campaign is so negatively affected by this portion of the community, and I'm guessing it's unlikely that this progression will ever reverse without some sort of campaign reboot.

I wonder if there was a particular time when the downward trend started.

-Matt

People pitching a fit and metaphorically stamping their feet is a shame. People making threats is something else entirely.

3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
People pitching a fit and metaphorically stamping their feet is a shame. People making threats is something else entirely.

Dang. Yeah, that's a tough position to be in. It's unfortunate that the PFS community has been so far unable to purge such behavior from its culture.

However...

Does anyone on the boards with Living Greyhawk leadership experience have any behind-the-scenes perspectives on this, having gone before where Mr. Brock is hesitant about going? I only wrote three of these special events for three conventions; I was never with campaign leadership.

-Matt

3/5

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Michael Brock wrote:

One of the top 10 ideas on my list when I was hired was to set up regional specials that VCs would oversee the writing and editing and distribution of. However, that is no longer on the table due to the behavior displayed by a fair number of PFS participants.

I will advise that we receive a fair amount of vitriolic feedback both here on the public message boards and in emails, about boons that are only available at conventions. I imagine if we authorized regional scenarios, specials, or events, the negative feelings (sometimes expressed in VERY hateful and threatening emails currently) would only become worse. For that reason alone, it is currently a non-starter.

It would take a GREAT DEAL of good reasons to even get me to consider opening up a dialogue for that type of convention support.

This makes me really sad, because custom games could be really fun, and you guys don't deserve to be treated that way.

Shame on those people.

Silver Crusade 2/5

I would actually love to see some sort of regional play crop up, as long as the scenarios can eventually be run outside the region. The regional scenarios get debuted at a convention, then become open consumption in the region, and finally (say 4-6 months after they debuted at the con) they become playable nationwide. Gives a reason to go to a con, but local game days can play them as well.

Terribly sad that people get upset over some boons. And threatening is just crazy. I really hope you are able to move forward with this at some point.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Netopalis wrote:
Finally, while I never played LG, it did seem like it was much more convention-oriented. That approach will understandably lead to more convention attendance, but at the sake of less content for local groups. Personally, I would prefer to reliably get my games in weekly and have occasional conventions than to play fewer games and get a greater turnout at conventions.

There was actually a lot more content for LG overall, and at least as much for local groups. It's just that it had *more* in general, and a lot of that "more" came in the form of convention events. LG had, on a yearly basis:

~18 Core and adaptable modules (playable by anyone and everyone)
~12 Metaregional modules (playable by anyone physically in one of the regions that made up the metaregion)
12 Regional modules (playable by anyone physically in the region)

In addition, there were:

Gen-Con only Specials and Interactives.
Regional Interactives (about 4 a year per region, I think) that were con-exlusive.

With about 30 regions, LG put out something like 1,000 modules in 8 years. At 28 scenarios per year, PFS is on track to put out about 250.

Individual players, even if they never traveled to a convention or another region could expect to participate in about 40 modules a year. None of these were con-exclusive, although they were generally released at conventions and only made available for home play a month after their initial release.

The catch is that all of that content was solicited, written, edited, and developed by unpaid volunteers. There was one paid employee at WotC that oversaw the campaign, and a tiered staff of volunteers that included a representative on the Circle for each metaregion (Jason Buhlman was our rep for the Iuz Border States metaregion). Each region had a Triad responsible for developing their region. The positions in the Triads were Plots, Point of Contact, and ... Editor? Maybe.

Regardless, there were a lot more man-hours put in, and there were a lot more opportunities to play overall. That gave the campaign staff the luxury to create unique convention events.

Edit: number of PFS scenarios estimated in 8 years.

4/5

Netopalis wrote:
I will say that Dragon's Demand is not really appropriate for a convention setting. I'm curious to see what Wardens of the Reborn Forge will look like.

Come to Dreamation in Jersey were running the following modules during the convention:

Pathfinder Society Module: Murder's Mark
Pathfinder Society Module: Dragon's Demand Pt 1
Pathfinder Society Module: Dragon's Demand Pt 2
Pathfinder Society Module: Dragon's Demand Pt 3
Pathfinder Society Module: Midnight Mirror
Pathfinder Society Module: We Be Goblins
Pathfinder Society Module: We Be Goblins Too!

Silver Crusade 1/5

How is your online dragon's demand going, if you dont mind my asking? I was thinking of running it, and noticed it was being run online.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

One of the charms of PFS is that apart from a very small number of exceptions (-EX scenarios), all you need to play is the right number of people (4+ for a normal session, X tables for a special). Geography doesn't enter into it.

As a teenager in the UK, I looked into getting involved in Living Greyhawk. From what I could work out, my perception was that all of the 'action' took place in a number of US regions, and places like the UK were faily peripheral. I concluded it wasn't for me, and never looked back. I'd hate for someone to have that perception of PFS due to geographical barriers.

1/5

the meaning from my short time in the society is to be inclusive, this means not shunning players and having respect towards one another. Mike, i wish to apologize for the harsh words you likely received...i am sure many of us did not know that threats were informed.

Based on the how you approached that statement, it seems like it was not one or two cases... but a great many. Scenario stagnation will always be a concern for the society, writers can only produce so quickly. Since the scenario have to fit into the same theme it gets a bit difficult to branch out authors as well.

It will take patience and support to grow the community, that means all of us. If the society needs help please let the community know what would help?

thanks for the attention

Silver Crusade 4/5

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Michael Brock wrote:
I will advise that we receive a fair amount of vitriolic feedback both here on the public message boards and in emails, about boons that are only available at conventions. I imagine if we authorized regional scenarios, specials, or events, the negative feelings (sometimes expressed in VERY hateful and threatening emails currently) would only become worse. For that reason alone, it is currently a non-starter.

Not cool guys, not cool.

4/5

samerandomhero wrote:
How is your online dragon's demand going, if you dont mind my asking? I was thinking of running it, and noticed it was being run online.

Fist part went well. 2nd part is on the 1st.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Michael Brock wrote:

One of the top 10 ideas on my list when I was hired was to set up regional specials that VCs would oversee the writing and editing and distribution of. However, that is no longer on the table due to the behavior displayed by a fair number of PFS participants.

I will advise that we receive a fair amount of vitriolic feedback both here on the public message boards and in emails, about boons that are only available at conventions. I imagine if we authorized regional scenarios, specials, or events, the negative feelings (sometimes expressed in VERY hateful and threatening emails currently) would only become worse. For that reason alone, it is currently a non-starter.

It would take a GREAT DEAL of good reasons to even get me to consider opening up a dialogue for that type of convention support.

This is a real shame.

Anonymous criticism and douche-baggery is sadly now a staple of the internet. It is unfortunately even more prevalent in niche subcultures where geek fandom can just as quickly turn into rabid attacks on anyone who doesn't 'get' the appeal of the hobby to the fan. Even when that said person is a 5-star GM and the international organizer of said hobby. Worse still, anyone in a leadership position is now able to be mercilessly and brutally criticized by anyone behind a keyboard.

I guess the real key difference is some people allow this vitriol to affect them, and influence their decision to stop doing what they are excellent at. I suppose there is a decision here to be made about con boons feedback being 'valuable feedback' or, in some cases, just plain 'whining' or 'hysterical threats.' We should safely assume anyone making actual threats regarding con boons should not be granted any power in determining the future of PFS. That would be a terrible mistake.

While it is true that there are a number of PFS gamers who do not live in an area that is serviced by conventions, it is far from the truth to say that their options are completely limited. Today we have online conventions, we have the same ability to coordinate a reportable event to create a gaming tradition in an area, and there's always the option of travel, if finances allow. There are options for those that really want the benefits of a con.

So I would really love to see regional specials happen for PFS. I would hope that flexible allowances could be made for their running. Perhaps the event would only need 10 tables? Perhaps if an online event organizer originated in the region, they could offer the region special? I feel like the opportunities are very rich to come up with a regional special system that would serve everyone and allow all the individual regional societies to shine.

After all, Paizo already continues the tradition of con boon support. If Paizo is sticking to it's guns on that issue, why not stick to your guns on a brand new and exciting idea that could both revitalize the con tradition while showing off the creative power of all the PFS communities?

Dark Archive 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Most of the ideas here seem to be trying to make local game days worse rather than making cons better.

Giving something special to conventions is not taking away from game days any more than giving something special to game days detracts from going to conventions.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Todd Morgan wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Most of the ideas here seem to be trying to make local game days worse rather than making cons better.

Giving something special to conventions is not taking away from game days any more than giving something special to game days detracts from going to conventions.

Not letting game days run the new scenarios is taking away from game days.

4/5

Locally we delayed Season 5 scenarios about 3 months so our local con would have draw so we'd fill enough tables to do the season 5 special. No one was that vocal in complaining about it...

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

David: We've done that too, on a local level. However, if this were a campaign-wide policy, I feel that it would create some major issues.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Similarly, that is what I've seen EO's do here before the cons. It's not a strict "cannot run this", it's just that they choose not to. Any store is welcome to run it, they just choose to reserve it.

Dark Archive 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Most of the ideas here seem to be trying to make local game days worse rather than making cons better.

Giving something special to conventions is not taking away from game days any more than giving something special to game days detracts from going to conventions.

Not letting game days run the new scenarios is taking away from game days.

I don't believe the suggestion was to not let game days run new scenarios, it was to let conventions have the ability to run them earlier than non-convention events. Non-conventions would still have access to them.

4/5

I wasn't suggesting that it be done at a national level, I think you should do what makes sense for your game days, and local conventions, which is what we currently do! I don't think it takes away from game days to do so, and that was the part I was addressing.

Allowing society to regulate itself and releasing one special a year that requires a convention to run, and another which requires a fairly large convention to run.

I definitely think that having all of the scenarios be delayed for non-conventions would simply hurt PFS. People talk about visibility and conventions, but, I never really heard of living gray hawk, despite playing 3.5 from 2005 to 2008 very regularly. I heard about PFS at a local game shop, saw local advertisement for gamedays, and eventually (after a few years) got into it after realizing just how easy it was to go to a local game day and play PFS. I think accessibility is the greatest thing about it, and anything detracting from this is a negative.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Todd Morgan wrote:
I don't believe the suggestion was to not let game days run new scenarios, it was to let conventions have the ability to run them earlier than non-convention events. Non-conventions would still have access to them.

That's the exact same thing.

Silver Crusade 4/5 ***

I have only been playing PFS for a year, and I don't have experience with LG or RPG's since dropping out of AD&D and the Star Wars RPG ~20 years ago. I have been an avid boardgamer for decades and have been attending cons for years just to play board games with my friends and hundreds of other board game geeks.

I took a chance on PFS at a local con last year. I played First Steps Part 1 and had a BLAST. I didn't know what I was doing; I did lots of stupid things; I asked a lot of questions, but I still had a BLAST. Why? Let's see - an introductory scenario to pique the interest of new players on a gentle learning curve, a kind and patient GM (who was 1/2 my age) and two experienced players who did a great job of welcoming me and not making me feel like an idiot, and to top if off the content was interesting, fun, and challenging. After completing FS part 1, a VC helped me create a PFS-legal character. EVERYTHING about the experience was fun and welcoming.

I was and still am impressed with the quality of the VC's, VL's and GM's, not just as people who know the rules and can run adventures, but more importantly as the face of the company. Maybe my experience is unique, but I have had the pleasure and honor of playing at tables run by Mr. Miles, Mr. Brock, and three other notable VC's and VL's (all at cons of course). I have been amazed by not only their mastery of the game mechanics, but more importantly, their ability to create/maintain a fun and challenging game and make everyone at the table feel at home and just as important as anyone else at the table, including themselves.

While I got involved with the PFS group at my LGS shortly after my first taste of Pathfinder, I never would have even tested the waters if I couldn't try it at a local convention. I think the boons are great, even when I don't get any myself.

I love cons for the interaction with so many other people who have the same passion for games that I do. I embrace the opportunity to take a couple days away from work and home to drop a couple hundred bucks and play the hell out of games for 3 or 4 days straight. I feel sorry for the people who don't have the means to play at cons, because in most cases, they are really missing out on some great experiences. I am blessed to be in a place financially and geographically where attending a handful of cons each year is possible, and I know that not everyone is.

+1 for boons at cons
+1 for con specials
+1 for pre-releasing new materials at cons
+1 for ideas on getting LGS to promote Pathfinder as well as the cons do

Mr. Miles, I hope to get seated at one of your tables at BashCon again this February. Thanks for opening up this discussion.

5/5

Until you try something how can you possibly judge it?

Dark Archive 4/5

Michael Brock wrote:
It would take a GREAT DEAL of good reasons to even get me to consider opening up a dialogue for that type of convention support.
Andrei Buters wrote:
After all, Paizo already continues the tradition of con boon support. If Paizo is sticking to it's guns on that issue, why not stick to your guns on a brand new and exciting idea that could both revitalize the con tradition while showing off the creative power of all the PFS communities?

Whereas I find it completely disgusting that the campaign management is receiving threats over the boon issue, and can't fault anyone for taking threats seriously, I do have to second the above comment. I'd like to add, though, that the venture-officer network is getting more and more comprehensive by the week. If regional scenarios were assigned to local authors by venture-officers and every region of the world had access to the scenarios assigned by their closest VO, who could complain? The complaint over boons is one of access, right? If every region of the world has access to regional scenarios through their closest VO, how would this exacerbate threats?

I guess I'm taking for granted that these regional scenarios wouldn't be convention exclusives because they wouldn't need to be exclusive in order to be a boon for conventions. Conventions in nearby regions would still benefit from more out-of-town traffic by virtue of being able to offer a higher volume of regional scenarios.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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How do you ensure quality control over regionally written scenarios? If a new player is driven off by a scenario Paizo puts out, we can bear the brunt of the heat. If a fan created regional scenario drives off a new player, that is a different problem altogether.

How do you maintain sensibility over what is offered on a Chronicle sheet?

What happens if a crazy boon slips through the cracks? Do You revoke it for everyone who received that boon? If you revoke it, how do you think that is going to go over with that group of players (and it can be as high as 100-125 players in a region)? If you don't revoke it, how do you think players in other regions that never get the opportunity to earn it are going to react to that?

How do you handle a situation where, a VO who is an unpaid volunteer, doesn't have the time to oversee a regional special on top of all the other organizing going on?

What if you have a region not covered by a VO? Is it fair to the players in that region to not be offered anything? Let's put Korea and Japan in that category. We have games reported as being played there. However, there is currently no VO support. Is it fair that the players in those two countries don't receive a regional special?

What if a small region has no one who wants to volunteer to write a scenario for their region?

For that matter, do you place a limit on how small a region is before they are granted the "rights" to create a regional special? I have seen a few people from Maine who have advised they can't generate enough interest to get 15 tables in a weekend. They also don't have a VO. Is it fair to say that the players we have in Maine don't get to have a local special? Before you advise the Boston Or Vermont VOs could travel there, is it unfair to put extra responsibilities on them that they didn't sign up for?

We don't have an interest in dividing the real world into Golarion equivalent regions. It creates unnecessary divisiveness in the player base. How do you decide what region gets what special?

If a VO of one region visits another region, would he be able to carry his regional special with him? If so, is that fair to regions like South Africa, China, Russia, or Croatia, where they most likely are not going to get a visiting VO anytime in the foreseeable future. Most people who are asking for this are thinking in terms of the U.S. and not how it would work globally.

Are these regional specials available to only be run at conventions? If so, a fair share of store owners are going to rightfully complain they don't have access. If they are available to stores, the regional conventions are going to rightfully complain that they don't have anything special to offer at the con. How do you remedy those complaints?

Is there a limit to the number of regional specials that could be written and offered in one year? If no, is it fair that larger regions may get 8 regional specials a year, while a smaller region may only get one per year. If you sign off on that, it does nothing but foster resentment in smaller regions and drives players away.

Btw, I am aware of two times were it has been tried to allow the local VC to run a regional special event. Both regions are extremely active areas in the US. And both instances were a disaster. Even in other OPs, where it was pointed out that regional specials were well received, there were a good many complaints that some regions just flopped, and it was an injustice to the dedicated players in that region.

Those are immediate concerns just off the top of my head. I have a list at work that has about 30 concerns on it.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

What about offering something like double XP or the option to start characters at level 3 or something if brought to the con with 0XP?

Something that can be achieved (albeit less efficiently) outside of a con setting, but is still a considerable enough reward to warrant coming.

(Obviously, I'm just brainstorming ideas. Adjustments can (and probably should) be considered).

Silver Crusade 2/5

Create a panel of 10 venture officers, RPG Superstar contestants, and 4/5 star GMs. Ask them to review a scenario to see if it falls into paizo guidelines for content and editing standards. They would further double check the chronicle for any abnormal boons or gold received. If the Decimvirate gives its collective thumbs up (7/10?), the scenario is first released at local cons, then to the nation at large after a delay.

Rough draft, but I think there are members of the community who would happily take a stab at it. Just because it hasn't been done well yet does not mean it cannot be done well at all.

3/5

*cracks his knuckles*

Michael Brock wrote:
How do you ensure quality control over regionally written scenarios?

By trusting your regional communities, and the Venture-Officers behind them. If you don't have trust, then you might as well stop here. Your campaign has bigger problems if you can't trust your regional leaders.

Also, you accept that there will be some variance in quality. But that's already true of centrally-produced scenarios.

Michael Brock wrote:
How do you maintain sensibility over what is offered on a Chronicle sheet?

By deciding centrally what can and cannot be offered, and distributing this information in an adventure template.

Michael Brock wrote:
What happens if a crazy boon slips through the cracks?

If you lay down the expectations of what can and can't go on the Chronicle, this is not a problem.

A regionally-designed adventure does not need to have regionally-designed rewards.

Michael Brock wrote:
How do you handle a situation where, a VO who is an unpaid volunteer, doesn't have the time to oversee a regional special on top of all the other organizing going on?

You trust that your local VO can hand the reins to a capable local coordinator.

Michael Brock wrote:
What if you have a region not covered by a VO?

You just let these uncovered regions "borrow" from covered regions. If someone from, say, Japan wants to run a convention, it's not hard to let the VO community work with the con coordinator choose an appropriate regional adventure to hand to them.

Michael Brock wrote:
What if a small region has no one who wants to volunteer to write a scenario for their region?

See above.

Michael Brock wrote:
We don't have an interest in dividing the real world into Golarion equivalent regions. It creates unnecessary divisiveness in the player base. How do you decide what region gets what special?

Does it matter? Trust your Venture-Officers to answer this question if/when it comes up.

Michael Brock wrote:
If a VO of one region visits another region, would he be able to carry his regional special with him? If so, is that fair to regions like South Africa, China, Russia, or Croatia, where they most likely are not going to get a visiting VO anytime in the foreseeable future. Most people who are asking for this are thinking in terms of the U.S. and not how it would work globally.

If you keep obsessing over fairness of availability, you'll get nowhere. Also... where did the idea come up of needing a Venture-Officer to run the convention Special?

Michael Brock wrote:
Are these regional specials available to only be run at conventions? If so, a fair share of store owners are going to rightfully complain they don't have access. If they are available to stores, the regional conventions are going to rightfully complain that they don't have anything special to offer at the con. How do you remedy those complaints?

You answer this question by letting the Venture-Officers decide what is best for their own communities. If the Venture-Officers want to keep their own regions' special events exclusive to cons, let them. If they want to have giant gamedays and offer the specials, let them.

Michael Brock wrote:
Is there a limit to the number of regional specials that could be written and offered in one year?

That's up to you. However, if a particular guy can manage to author and run eight specials a year, and have them all be awesome... this is guy who obviously should be brought into the fold as a scenario author. Just saying, there are other benefits to success.

Michael Brock wrote:
If no, is it fair that larger regions may get 8 regional specials a year, while a smaller region may only get one per year. If you sign off on that, it does nothing but foster resentment in smaller regions and drives players away.

If this is a genuine issue, then set a limit.

Michael Brock wrote:
Btw, I am aware of two times were it has been tried to allow the local VC to run a regional special event. Both regions are extremely active areas in the US. And both instances were a disaster. Even in other OPs, where it was pointed out that regional specials were well received, there were a good many complaints that some regions just flopped, and it was an injustice to the dedicated players in that region.

Perhaps it would be best to do a solid investigation of those Organized-Play campaigns before speaking of injustice. Get a full picture.

Anyways, it sounds like the key word here is trust. Trusting your local leadership, trusting their ability to produce good special events, trusting that they will follow your clearly-given expectations of what can go on the Chronicle sheet, and trusting that they will solve issues as they come up.

-Matt

5/5

Mattastrophic wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
How do you ensure quality control over regionally written scenarios?

By trusting your regional communities, and the Venture-Officers behind them. If you don't have trust, then you might as well stop here. Your campaign has bigger problems if you can't trust your regional leaders.

Also, you accept that there will be some variance in quality. But that's already true of centrally-produced scenarios.

Trust isn't the same as ensuring quality. VO's are not writers, editors, or publishers.*

*unless they are. ;-)

3/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
Trust isn't the same as ensuring quality. VO's are not writers, editors, or publishers.

Unfortunately, the natural solution, central quality control, has been indicated to be impossible. At some point, central leadership just has to let go of the reins. If they can't do that, then regionally-produced specials just can't happen.

-Matt

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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It's interesting you mention that. For about a year, we had a secret Collaborator message board up. It consisted of VCs and VLs, 4/5 star GMs, and a few RPG susperstar competitors. The purpose was to update Season 0 scenarios to PFRPG rules, as well as update faction missions to fit the current season. The requirement was that each submissions had to be reviewed and critiqued by three different people. Out of the 100+ scenarios, only two were reviewed by three different people. And that is over a year's time. Simply put, they weren't reviewed three times because the volunteers working in the secret message board didn't have time to do so. If our most interested volunteers didn't have time to review revamped faction missions and update Season 0 scenarios, all of which were already written, how likely is it going to happen that full fledged scenarios are written, reviewed, edited, and formatted by volunteers?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Mattastrophic wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Trust isn't the same as ensuring quality. VO's are not writers, editors, or publishers.

Unfortunately, the natural solution, central quality control, has been indicated to be impossible. At some point, central leadership just has to let go of the reins. If they can't do that, then regionally-produced specials just can't happen.

-Matt

Why, as a company that sets it's goals to produce high quality products that our name is attached to, would we want to give up control of quality of products that are going to have our company name and logos attached to it?

3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
If our most interested volunteers didn't have time to review revamped faction missions and update Season 0 scenarios, all of which were already written, how likely is it going to happen that full fledged scenarios are written, reviewed, edited, and formatted by volunteers?

Well, if you're certain of the concept's failure, then... don't do it. Fortunately, the concept of regionally-produced scenarios, if none actually get produced... well, that's no big deal, right?

Consider that a regionally-produced scenario lets its authors and editors really own the project and put passion into it.

-Matt

3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Why, as a company that sets it's goals to produce high quality products that our name is attached to, would we want to give up control of quality of products that are going to have our company name and logos attached to it?

Because you want more of them to be produced, and you can't do that any other way. If you can't let go of the reins, then this idea is dead on arrival.

-Matt, tellin' it like it is.

5/5

Mattastrophic wrote:
Consider that a regionally-produced scenario lets its authors and editors really own the project and put passion into it.

That's a bit insulting to existing and aspiring PFS writers and editors.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Mattastrophic wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Why, as a company that sets it's goals to produce high quality products that our name is attached to, would we want to give up control of quality of products that are going to have our company name and logos attached to it?

Because you want more of them to be produced, and you can't do that any other way. If you can't let go of the reins, then this idea is dead on arrival.

-Matt, tellin' it like it is.

I think it is safe to say we aren't going to sacrifice quality for quantity.

3/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
That's a bit insulting to existing and aspiring PFS writers and editors.

That's a false conclusion you're coming to there. There is enough passion to go around.

-Matt

3/5

Michael Brock wrote:
I think it is safe to say we aren't going to sacrifice quality for quantity.

Message received. Thank you for giving me a place to present ideas and answer your questions.

-Matt

1/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—Texarkana

GM Derek W wrote:

EDIT: Ninja'd big-time. I'll just say that at this point I'd be interested why you're missing the cons so much. Please understand that my perspective is that of someone who's never attended a gaming convention and has never felt much interest in doing so.

Maybe you guys will convince me that they are worth the trouble after all!

DragonCon...For me a Con offers a family experience. There is something for everyone. At DragonCon the basement of the Hilton has gaming that holds the attention of my youngest son ALL DAY long. Bring him something to eat and drink several times a day and I am assured I will find him in the basement any time I check in on him.

Also in the Hilton on the second floor I can get my fill of PFS. Then there are the costumes I wear and the ones I watch. Panels galore on gaming, costuming, my favorite sci-fi/fantasy shows, and the walk of fame where I get to meet my favorite actors. Flash mobs, elevator games, you name it I find it at the Con.

OH and did I mention everyone you meet is nice?

1/5 Venture-Captain, Texas—Texarkana

Oh the experience of getting to get the local flavor of other GMs and players is an added plus as well.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

Or what about replay priveleges? Again, something you could earn (less efficiently) outside of a con setting, but catchy enough to stil be a reward.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Or what about replay privileges? Again, something you could earn (less efficiently) outside of a con setting, but catchy enough to stil be a reward.

Would you be able to replay at the cons? or would it be like a star system where you play X number of games at the con you earn a replay?

Replaying at cons would hit the arguments against replay-namely that replay locks out new players.

A star like system would be hard to track and require implementation I don't think they can swing.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Or what about replay priveleges? Again, something you could earn (less efficiently) outside of a con setting, but catchy enough to stil be a reward.

We already have replay privileges tied to GM stars and Tier 1 play. Opening up carte Blanche replay for everyone is not healthy for the campaign and isn't going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Or what about replay priveleges? Again, something you could earn (less efficiently) outside of a con setting, but catchy enough to stil be a reward.

We already have replay privileges tied to GM stars and Tier 1 play. Opening up carte Blanche replay for everyone is not healthy for the campaign and isn't going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

That's fair.

I think to really spur attendance, you'd need to offer something flashy along those lines. Race boons certainly qualify, but there's sort of a exclusionary undertone to them.

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