Investigators and Spell Trigger items

Rules Questions

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

With the playtest forums closed, not sure where to ask this, so doing so here...

Did the powers that be make a decision on whether Investigators could use spell trigger items (ie: wands) of spells on their formula list like their parent Alchemist class can?

The language was missing from the Investigator version of the Alchemy class ability, so am not sure if they added it in or not.

I was told it was intentional that they cannot use them. But that may have since changed.

Ah, well that's unfortunate.

Thanks Cheapy.

Hey, it means you're off happy-stick duty :)

Grand Lodge

*Raise Thread*
I would also like to know if Investigators can use wands. I thought they couldn't, but the PFS Investigator Pregen implies that they can.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Having the wands and implying they can use it may not be the best assumption. Doesn't the fighter have a wand?


James Risner wrote:
Having the wands and implying they can use it may not be the best assumption. Doesn't the fighter have a wand?

Valeros only has potions, I think, but I agree with you. Lots of PFS characters carry around wands they can't use. As for Quinn and his wand of scorching ray, maybe he's depending on his +11 in Use Magic Device (at 7th level) to activate it?

Not that I understand the rules for UMD all that well myself. The wand rules state the use of UMD allowing wand activation "allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list." Quinn doesn't have a class spell list, technically, and in any case, scorching ray isn't on the Alchemist/Investigator formulae list.

So he would instead have to make a UMD check to "emulate a class feature" (that being a Wizard's "Spells" class feature), right? At DC 20. But my question has always been whether he would then also have to make the "use wand" check as well. I know some uses of UMD require multiple checks--for example emulating a class feature and emulating an ability score (if there's even an item that meets that criteria, but you see my point)--just not sure if this particular case would require such.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

UMD has a Use a wand DC 20 activation. So with +11 he needs a 9 to succeed.

Grand Lodge

Ascalaphus wrote:

I feel like there's some text in the Alchemist that accidentally got cut in the transition to the Investigator.

Alchemist wrote:
Extracts are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the alchemist's level as the caster level. Unlike potions, though, extracts can have powerful effects and duplicate spells that a potion normally could not.
Investigator wrote:
Like an alchemist, an investigator prepares his spells by mixing ingredients and a tiny fraction of his own magical power into a number of extracts, and then effectively casts the spell by drinking the extract. These extracts have powerful effects, but they are also bound to their creator. Extracts behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by dispel magic and similar effects, using the investigator's level as the caster level.

Notice that some text got added to the Investigator in comparison to the Alchemist. Where did it come from?

Alchemist wrote:
Although the alchemist doesn't actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what extracts he can create. An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so). An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist. An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard action. The alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.
This entry is missing from the Investigator. My theory is that the last sentence was copied to the Investigator paragraph above. However, some important bits (the blue ones) got lost in the process....

Grand Lodge

The sentence "An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard action" also appears to missing from the Investigator. Does this mean an Investigator has to draw an extract as a move action before drinking it as a standard?

Or is this and the wand use issue covered by the words in the Investigator Alchemy description "Like an alchemist..."?

Also Quinn at 7th level has two wands - one of Scorching Ray, which has text to say he needs to make a UMD check, and one of See Invisibility, which has no mention of a UMD check. Granted, Pregens contain mistakes.

Given the general poor editing of the ACG I think the RAW and RAI of Investigator wand use is currently unclear.

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