Acid Arrow criting?

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

When you critical on a acid splash spell, do you do 4d4 damage for each round, or only on the first round?

[Bill Dunn]

I would only apply the critical increase to the first round's damage.

[blahpers]

First round. The later rounds require no attack roll, so they do not gain the benefit of a critical hit.

[Ilja]

Not sure i agree with the above. Afaik, critting with bleeding damage doubles the damage each round, why should this be different?

[blahpers]

I've never heard of critting with bleeding damage multiplying bleed, much less continuing the multiplied effect for later rounds. Bleed is usually a rider effect. There's probably a monster I'm forgetting that does bleed damage directly, but I'm having trouble finding one--it's usually "bite +9 (4d6+3 plus bleed)" and then later "bleed (1d6)" or some such.

[The Beard]

Mostly because critting with bleed damage doesn't actually double the bleed damage. Unless there is some monster I'm not aware of that directly deals bleed damage, it isn't multiplied. It gets treated a lot like precision damage for those purposes. If the tacked on damage got doubled, the combination of bleeding critical and a nodachi (or falcata, especially a falcata) would be hilariously powerful.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

Oops in the actual post I said acid splash not acid arrow.

So the consensus is only the first round of acid damage is doubled?

[Ilja]

Sorry for that dont know what i was thinking really. Yes youre right of course xD

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

What about a sorcerer of the shaitan bloodline that gets extra damage on acid spells? Does the extra damage carry over on subsequent rounds?

[Majuba]

Shaitan bloodline does not add damage, Black/Copper/Green draconic bloodline does, and that would add each time the spell dealt damage (and be doubled on the crit). Increased crit damage does not occur each subsequent round.

[Bizbag]

This is a fair question! I'd probably rule that the persistent damage is also doubled, as it is part of the whole spell effect. It's what you get for its higher spell slot and attack roll over, say, Magic Missile. Baseline, MM can do 5d4+5 automatically, while Acid Arrow can do 2d4 a round, and requires an attack roll, and is higher level.

It's similar to bleeds but not the same, so I don't feel beholden to the same rules. Especially since the spell doesn't do a big initial hit and then a small bleed - it has full effect every round.

I wouldn't fight very hard against a ruling the other way, though.

[Fomsie]

I was originally going to say that it is a definitive "No", the repeated damage would not be modified by a crit.

However, I then considered the total damage potential 2d4 + 2d4 per round for up to 6 rounds at level 18, so 14d4 damage (Avg 35) (*that is removable if the target has means to remove the acid). With a crit we would be looking at a total of 28d4 damage (Avg 70).

I looked for a comparable level spell, Scorching Ray doing 4d6 with up to 3 rays at level 11, so 12d6 damage (Avg 42). With crits we would be looking at 16d6 (avg 56) for a single crit, 20d6 (avg 70) if 2 crit, and 24d6 (avg 84) if all 3 crit.

Now obviously it is far less likely that a caster would get 3 crits with one ray iteration, however, if we compare just one Ray crit at level 12 so we have 3 rays, we have 16d6 (avg 56) damage vs Acid Arrow crit at level 12 doing 20d4 (avg 50), then the damage range of two touch based spells of the same caster level come out fairly evenly if the progressive damage is allowed to be multiplied by a critical hit.

Of course there are variables involved:

The ray has to have 3 successful ranged touch attacks.

The Acid arrow has to remain on the target for 4 added rounds (in the level 12 to 12 comparison) to do full damage.

The rays would face potential fire resistance with damage bursts of 8d6 (28), 4d6 (14) and 4d6 (14).

The Acid Arrow would face potential acid resistance with damage pulses of 4d4 (10).

I mean, I understand that it is not an exact match... more like comparing oranges and tangerines though than apples and oranges. Still, broken down like that, I don't see it being over powered to allow the progressive pulse damage to be multiplied by the crit.

All told, I don't know, I can see the argument for either side now, and I don't see it as being over powered if the critical mechanic is allowed.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

Fomsie, Iowa's thinking along those lines, just not as well thought out.