Arcane Bloodline+Eldritch Knight= More spells known than is first apparent?


Rules Questions


I recently made an Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight that has the Arcane Bloodline.
I was looking at how a character would gain spells known from the prestige class. The entry reads thus:
"At the indicated levels, an Eldritch Knight gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting."

Normally, when advancing the spellcasting of a spontaneous-casting EK (or Arcane Archer or other PrC that advances spellcasting), this is interpreted to mean that the character receives the bonus spells granted from their bloodline--but they would not receive any bloodline powers. Here's what I'm getting at: One of the boons granted from the Arcane Bloodline is "Extra Arcana", which grants additional spells at specific levels. Based on how an Eldritch Knight gains spells known, these "Extra Arcana" spells should be gained in addition to the spells granted from the base bloodline. In other words, a hypothetical Sorcerer 1/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 8 (we gained early entry into EK by virtue of being an Aasimar), with the Arcane bloodline would learn an additional spell at levels 11 and 16.

Does this seem accurate? I'm relatively new to Pathfinder, but I've done my homework, and I think that RAW supports this interpretation. It's something I've never seen mentioned on any forums or in any guides, and if I'm correct, it's a nice bonus for multiclassed Sorcerers who select the Arcane bloodline.


This is incorrect.

To obtain the "New Arcana" Bloodline power, you actually have to have the levels of sorcerer listed.

I'm also fairly confident that the bloodline spells count as a class feature and are not learned unless specifically detailed in the PrC.

"+1 level of existing spellcasting class" is not a double dip to gain all of both's class features, but only a bonus to caster level (and spells known for spontaneous)


My understanding is that bloodline spells *are* gained when leveling up in a prestige class that grants spellcasting. The keywords being "an Eldritch Knight gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class." Based on my research, the bloodline spells are gained because the EK gains spells as though he had leveled up in his previous spellcasting class--and those bloodline spells ARE spells he would have learned if he had taken another level as a Sorcerer. This is what my argument/discovery hinges on. Thanks for the response, but I genuinely believe you're mistaken, Archaeik.


Dotting for interest.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The the spells you get from the Extra Arcana aren't liked to the spell feature of the sorcerer, they are linked to the bloodline feature.

You get a feat from the increase in level as a sorcerer, not spells. Then the feat grant you some extra spell, but that is an effect of the feat, not of getting a level.


Yes--but as I said earlier, common interpretation is that bloodline spells are normally gained by EKs, Arcane Archers, etc. If that's the case (and yes--the question has come up and been answered in other threads), then they ought to gain the additional spells from New Arcana. We aren't talking about feats here. We're talking about spells learned. Which Sorcerer class feature grants the spells is irrelevant; what matters is that the Eldritch Knight learns spells as if they gained a level in their base casting class.


You see, this is where eldritch heritage becomes quite a boon; if you get it through the "eldritch heritage" line of feats, you're great, and can add spells.


This is one particular piece of a bloodline that you can get without the Eldritch Heritage feat. Just a piece, mind you.


For everyone's benefit, we are not talking about the feat Extra Arcana (or gaining it from the Arcane BL - it's not on that list).

We are talking about the BL power New Arcana.

You cannot gain spells from a class feature you do not have.


As to the point about BL spells

My statements are based on reading another thread regarding the Mystic Theurge.
Essentially they said you don't get them.

This is backed up by Dragon Disciple having a class feature that specifically grants them to sorcerers only.
This implies very strongly that PrC's normally do not grant the bonus BL spells.


I feel I need to point something else out as well.

If you only have 1 level of sorcerer, you only count as level 1 in regards to the use of your BL powers.

You need actual levels in sorcerer to increase this unless a PrC specifically grants them (like Dragon Disciple).

There are a few items that adjust your functional sorcerer level as well.


Alright--apparently I missed a thread where the design team spells out (so to speak) that bloodline spells are not gained when leveling up in prestige classes. I was very mistaken. Thanks for your input, guys. I'm a little bummed about it--but y'all were great.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2py9e&page=7?Prestige-classes-spells-known- and-bloodline

Oh--and here's a link to the FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9rae

I doubt that I'm the only person who was mislead on this particular point. Hopefully this misguided question of mine clears some things up for them, too.

Dark Archive

Not sure if this is old news or not, but just adding my two cents in here. If you are playing RAW, then taking a level in EK would give the Bloodline SPELLS, as they are added to the list of spells known and spells per day. You can still only take your bloodline's spells known as well as the spells allotted to the arcane class of choice, in this case Sorc/Wiz spell list.

The EK would NOT however gain new Bloodline POWERS. But also on that note, whatever powers he DID have would still increase in strength as if he were still a Sorcerer, example of the Elemental bloodline's Elemental Ray or the Draconic bloodline's Draconic Resistances.


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Four years.

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