How would you build the updated warpriest?


Advanced Class Guide Playtest General Discussion


I'm sure this might have been on the big post but not sure if it has been updated. Anyways I was thinking about making a warpriest but I'm noticing a need for all the stats to be good. (str for combat, con since you are up close, int since you only get 2+, dex cant be dumped , high wis, and cha) I thought about maybe bringing the str to 10 and take guided hand but then how would i carry the heavy armor since my dex is sub-par. Sigh better stop otherwise i could keep going.


I'd make a warpriest more like a warrior suited for heavy armor - str and con with a little bit of dex, only as much as it will be visible through the armor limits (+2 with masterwork full plate?).

Wisdom doesn't strike me as that useful comparing to a normal cleric - you won't reach above 6th spell tier and you'd probably prefer saving those few spells you have for heals and buffs.
Intelligence hurts the same as with a standard cleric - practically relying only on 2-3 skills probably consisting of diplomacy and knowledge(religion) with a bit of heal (just in case) and maybe intimidate.
Charisma for the channels and fervor will need a lot.
Leaves us a little more at ease with stats comparing to the standard cleric, who's also expected to melee.

Worse about the current state is that I'd be compelle to use light weapons so the sacred weapon damage ability doesn't go to waste (or doesn't annoy me later on that I would've gotten the higher damage dice anyway without the need to sacrifice a shield to wield that near two-handed hammer). That strikes me as awfully against the flavor of a good warpriest..but then again when I see "warpriest" I imagine a sigmarite from Warhammer - big maul in hand obligatory. Not here.


I wanted to build one as an lizardman, using his bite and claws for sacred weapons. (one with the free weapon focus, the other with the first combat feat).
That way I always have three attacks at full BAB doing full sacred weapon damage.
For Blessings I would take plant but wasn't sure about the second. I'd have liked nobility as second blessing for its out of combat utility but it doesn't fit and no god I know of gives plant and nobility.
Perhaps healing if possible to save favour for buffs and using the blessing to heal.
When it comes to stats the main focus for this one would be str, with wis second and a little cha.


WUM
DESNA
STR BASED
16 WIS AT LAST
14 OR 16 CHA
10 DEX
Travel and Liberation blessings
WITH A Nodachi? Maybe

Scarab Sages

Like St Drake I would go with Strength & Constitution, heavy on the Constitution (frontliners need it). I'd have enough wisdom for low level spell access (as it can be increased every 4 levels if need be) and a fairly good ammount of Chrisma to power the fervour.

With a 20 point buy you'd be looking at something like this (for Human)
Str 13
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 13
Cha 14

With heavy armour you'll probably need slightly higher strength to avoid encumbrance issues but you won't need it for Strength or Damage (Sacred Weapon's got that covered already).* With a 15 point build you'd lower Consitution slightly & possibly Intelligence & Wisdom but keep all the others as they are.

Additionaly I would make the character a Human warpriest of Iomedae. Feats at level 1 would be Saving Shield and either Toughness or Flanking Foil. They'd also get weapon focus (longsword) for being a warpriest of Iomedae.

Traits at level 1 would be Chosen of Iomedae (Champions of Purity) and Divine Warrior (APG). Chosen of Iomedae grants a free Masterwork Longsword and the Light spell as a once per day spell-like ability. Additionaly if any light spell is cast upon this sword (and this sword only) by the character who has taken this trait, then the duration and the radius are doubled. Divine Warrior: if you cast a spell on a weapon you are holding you get +1 damage with that weapon for the duration of the spell. I was originally going to take Armour Expert (because warrior priests don't get a fighter's armour training) but then I stumbled across Divine Warrior. Chosen of Iomedae was always part of the build. Disturbingly it's a pfs legal trait too.

As the character gains levels I'd try to add the missing feat (either Toughness or Flanking Foil) - yeah, you can tell I originally built this before the updated document came out and had to take one feat away, and take feats such as Shield Focus, Bodyguard, Antagonise, covering defence, step up, following step & step up and strike.

Using the antagonise feat would require building a high Diplomacy or Intimidate skill (probably diplomacy as the diplo-antagonise route is more flexible). I'm not sure if the warpriest has enough skill points to dedicate to that.

Another possibility would be to grab skill focus and then Eldritch Heritage (Ultimate Magic). Eldritch Heritage lets you take the level 1 power from a sorceror bloodline (at level-2) if you have the appropriate skill focus. The most tempting bloodlines for a warpriest are arcane (just imagine a warpriest with a Bonded Item! A Divine caster with a Bonded Item would be a godsend), Boreal (lots of cold damage at low level), Martyred (seems to fit the Warpriest of Iomedae theme although I doubt most aasimars could afford to dedicated two feats to skill focus & eldritch heritage), & finally Stormborn (lightning damage like the Boreal cold one). I can see Eldritch Heritage: Boreal or Stormborn making for some very thematic Ulfen warpriests indeed as a hammer is wreathed in thunder or a sheen of ice forms across an axe blade.

I'd probably go with my original defensive "party support tank" (as opposed to personal survival tank) build as that fits the class and the concept quite well. I'd try to get heavy armour and a big shield as early as possible and focus on keeping everyone alive.

[Edit] I completely forgot to mention that the original (pre Eldritch Heritage) build should probably try to include the Power Attack/Vital Strike chain of feats a little bit as well since you're getting full bab with the sword anyway.[/Edit]

* With Strength 13, weapon focus & sacred weapon (+ the masterwork longsword from the trait) you're looking at +4 to hit at 1st level. Remember that this is not a damage build so much as it's a party support tank build.


Tanks don't quite work like that. If your character don't do damage, and there's a tasty lightly armored arcer right there, the badguys of mediocore intelligence isn't going to stand around your longsword while they get killed by the archer.

If you want party support tank, you're far better off just going cleric.
Maybe with HAP.


I posted a warpriest build here that focused on dexterity and dervish dancing - not ideal for the class but I was working with some limitations imposed by my GM.

In hindsight I'd probably tweak it a bit - charisma was less of a priority than I thought it would be. If I was making a traditional melee-focused heavy armor warpriest with 20 pb I'd probably do something like:

Str: 16
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

before racial modifiers. If playing a human or another race that gets a floating +2 I'd put it in strength.

Strength 16 - This is primarily to be viable in combat. You could drop it to 15 and bump dex to 13 if you prefer a bit of extra AC and reflex.

Dex 10 - I'd love for this to be 13 but I think the str benefit outweighs it. As I mentioned above, you could drop a point of strength to pick up a bonus in Dex.

Con 14 - this class is intended to be on the line but the D8 hit die kind of hurts it in that regard, so constitution is even more important for you than the other frontliners (ie paladin, fighter etc) if you want to be able to stay in there. I know the class gets healing class features but Fervor-Lay on Hands is very underwhelming for healing output and I'm not sure if Fervor-spellcasting is intended to work with spontaneously cast healing spells - the way it's written is unclear at the moment.

Int 8 - Int is basically the only thing that's not heavily used by your class features so unfortunately intelligence gets cannibalized to make the rest of the character go round.

Wisdom 14 - the slow spell progression and no domain spells means you'll want to save every spell slot you can, so the bonus spells really help out early on. With a save DC of 12+level you won't be landing many spells that call for saves, so I'd focus on buffs, healing, and utility spells.

Charisma 12 - this is where it starts to get hard to buy all the stats you want. Ideally you want charisma 14 or even 16, but you just don't have the points. However if you limit yourself to using Fervor for spellcasting and cast about 1 swift buff per fight 12 charisma should tide you over till the middle levels, where the class level bonus outweighs the charisma bonus.

Scarab Sages

Arae Garven wrote:
Tanks don't quite work like that. If your character don't do damage....

I've seen some very good diplo tanks (hey, I even played one of them), some interesting nuissance tanks (mostly monks). There's different ways of doing things. The warpriest just doesn't really have what it takes to do a diplo-tank/intimi-tank style 'though. I honestly don't know why the player base suddenly got all obsessed with damage builds as soon as 3rd ed hit (and then the 3rd ed squishy damage heavy monster & npc builds didn't help reduce the problem either). Damage is not the only method of battlefield control. It certainly helps keep the attention on you 'though.

Quote:
If you want party support tank, you're far better off just going cleric.

I'm inclined to agree with you but this thread is asking how we might build the warpriest class :p.

If I really wanted to do it I'd probably be looking at a fighter build with step up, stand still and other control feats like that to really ruin my enemy's day. Or an inquisitor. Or a paladin.


Balgin wrote:
Arae Garven wrote:
Tanks don't quite work like that. If your character don't do damage....

I've seen some very good diplo tanks (hey, I even played one of them), some interesting nuissance tanks (mostly monks). There's different ways of doing things. The warpriest just doesn't really have what it takes to do a diplo-tank/intimi-tank style 'though. I honestly don't know why the player base suddenly got all obsessed with damage builds as soon as 3rd ed hit (and then the 3rd ed squishy damage heavy monster & npc builds didn't help reduce the problem either). Damage is not the only method of battlefield control. It certainly helps keep the attention on you 'though.

Quote:
If you want party support tank, you're far better off just going cleric.

I'm inclined to agree with you but this thread is asking how we might build the warpriest class :p.

If I really wanted to do it I'd probably be looking at a fighter build with step up, stand still and other control feats like that to really ruin my enemy's day. Or an inquisitor. Or a paladin.

Your first point is absolutely true. Your original post didn't seem to be about making a bfc/diplo/nuissance tank, however. It concerned itself with a support character, which I believe is a wrong direction to take a warpriest build, as Clerics Do It Better.

Now, that's not saying the Warpriest is a Bad Class. It just needs to realize that it isn't a cleric. I can see it doing a couple of things well:

Self buffing: It get swift action self-buffs. This translates to
a) good defenses: Shield of faith, protetion from X, etc.
b) good offense: Divine Favor, Bull Strength, etc.
c) Battlefield control: Enlarge Person.

Feats: This translates to letting them do things wich requires lots of feats well.
AoO focus: Combat Reflexes, step up, etc.
Maneouvers: Improved trip, improved Disarm. I'd be relunctant to venture into things they can't use with their weapons, though.
Archery: This eats feats for breakfast.

Odd weapon choices: sacred weapon means they can use oddball things to greater effect tha usual.

These tings lead me to thinking that I'd make a BFC whip-user.

Multiple ability depenancy is pretty horrible, tough.


I used to have a polearm cleric and I stopped playing him because i felt the skills were too few and there wasn't enough feats. This class really is one of the worst ones stat wise to pull off.
Right now I'm thinking human for the +1 skill to make up for the 8 int and a feat towards toughness to make up for the 10 con.
Stats:
Str 17
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 14

Level 4 I would round up str to 18 and then the rest into wis. I plan to get Power attack, combat reflex and body guard right away

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