Greetings all,
I have an 11lvl Sorcerer with a Smoke Mephit Familiar and i just took the Familiar Spell feat.
Your familiar must be able to speak to cast spells with a verbal component (the ability to speak with its master or creatures of its kind is insufficient). Your familiar must be carrying any material or focus components necessary, unless the materials cost less than 1 gp and the spell is prepared with Eschew Materials. Attack rolls use your familiar's ability scores. A familiar spell counts against the number of spells you may prepare for as long as your familiar retains the spell. Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.
A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell's actual level. Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level, but no spell's adjusted level can exceed half your caster level.
(I have bolded some interesting parts)
So if I am reading this correctly, I can give up 2 5lvl slots and tranfer them to my familiar as -for example- 2 scorching rays(the metamagic increases the spell level by 3). The adjusted level of each spell is not above half my caster level (5/5) and the total spell levels do not exceed my caster level (10/11).
What confuses me in the description of the feat, is that nowhere does it clearly say whether or not you can give your familiar more than one spell. At the same time, it does not specifically forbid you to do it. (maybe i am creating the confusion and the feat description is fine, I don't know). Metamagic feats in general do not have a spell limit (unless otherwise noted), the only limit being the number of required spell slots availiable.
What I would like to know, is how you read it and how you use it or how you used in the past or would you use it in the future.
The rod should have no special effect here. What the familiar receives is the up-jumped spell, so a level 4 magic missile, even if it only cost you a level 1 slot. So a level 8 caster with a rod of Familiar Spell can toss two level 1 slots and give his familiar two magic missiles (this is for the 8th level caster).
The key is parenthetical in the rules "Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level..."
You got it.
What gets weird is if you use a meta-magic rod. Since that doesn't increase the spell level, does that mean a 1st level spell would just be level 1? Could you store a 4 second level spells this way as an 8th level caster?
Assuming you can give more than one spell, I believe you could, If at the time of the transferring you have the rod in question available. Would this "break" the feat?That, I don't know.
What i saw in that feat was a kind of independence, from my familiar's part-you know being able to cast spells on its own at last, without wands-, and a "cheaper" quicken spell.
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You mean the modifier that applies because it ups the spell level? The same modifier that metamagic rods explicitly say they don't apply?The rod should have no special effect here. What the familiar receives is the up-jumped spell, so a level 4 magic missile, even if it only cost you a level 1 slot. So a level 8 caster with a rod of Familiar Spell can toss two level 1 slots and give his familiar two magic missiles (this is for the 8th level caster).
The key is parenthetical in the rules "Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level..."
Metamagic rods let you cast spells without adjusting their level.
Nowhere does it say it lets you alter a spell before it's cast, nor does it say you can alter a spell while transferring it to your familiar without casting it.
All they affect is casting, so they cannot be used to give the Familiar any extra effects on the spells you transfer to them.
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Variables that rely on caster level function according to your caster level, not your familiar's Hit Dice, though your familiar's Intelligence may influence how precisely it can follow your instructions on how to use these spells.
Your familiar must be carrying any material or focus components necessary, unless the materials cost less than 1 gp and the spell is prepared with Eschew Materials.
A familiar spell counts against the number of spells you may prepare for as long as your familiar retains the spell.
A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell's actual level.
I've highlighted a few key phrases (see above) from the feat description. The spirit/intent of the feat seems to be treating this exactly as a regular metamagic feat. And since you're actually taking a FEAT to do this.... please.. it doesn't appear overpowered at all to use a rod of metamagic in tandem with this feat...
Great idea!
Actually, metamagic rods make sense of the line "but no spell's adjusted level can exceed half your caster level" - since there aren't very many ways to have a spell adjusted level higher than half your caster level without external metamagic.
All good points and quite valid, each from a different point of view.
I think the actual problem of the feat is it being Metamagic (thus confusing with the rules concerning rods, when they come into play, and the wording of the benefit)and not General (w/o any spell level adjustments). If it was more like Spell-linked Familiar was in 3.5,with similar limitations etc, things would be clearer.
The feat only used singular articles. "a spell" is used consistently. Nowhere is "spell" pluralized and nowhere is a plural article or adjective used in conjunction with "spell". So it definitely seems to limit your familiar to having just one spell.
Ideally, you could use a rod for this since it is a metamagic feat, but I don't think it's in the official books, so this is a custom item and therefore up to your GM (and not likely to be accepted in PFS). I personally don't see a problem with using a metamagic rod for this feat - it doesn't seem any more overpowered than a Maximize or Quicken rod, and in fact, since you can only use it once/day where other rods can be used more than once/day, it would already be very limited (unless you have to casters in the party with familiars, in which case, they could have one rod and share it each morning).
The feat only used singular articles. "a spell" is used consistently. Nowhere is "spell" pluralized and nowhere is a plural article or adjective used in conjunction with "spell". So it definitely seems to limit your familiar to having just one spell.
Ideally, you could use a rod for this since it is a metamagic feat, but I don't think it's in the official books, so this is a custom item and therefore up to your GM (and not likely to be accepted in PFS). I personally don't see a problem with using a metamagic rod for this feat - it doesn't seem any more overpowered than a Maximize or Quicken rod, and in fact, since you can only use it once/day where other rods can be used more than once/day, it would already be very limited (unless you have to casters in the party with familiars, in which case, they could have one rod and share it each morning).
That seems to be the case, until you read this part:
"A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell's actual level. Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level, but no spell's adjusted level can exceed half your caster level."Why can you store a single spell, but up to half your caster level,while the total spell levels are up to your total caster level?What are you supposed to do with the "other half caster level" of you total spell levels allowance by this feat?
I entirely forgot to mention that this wouldn't be possible for the OP, because the fear specifies prepared spell. Unless he has some way of preparing spells like a wizard, this would be beyond the abilities of a sorcerer.
I entirely forgot to mention that this wouldn't be possible for the OP, because the fear specifies prepared spell. Unless he has some way of preparing spells like a wizard, this would be beyond the abilities of a sorcerer.
Incorrect.
The feat has this part as well: "If you are a spontaneous caster, you must select a specific spell with which to imbue your familiar; you cannot imbue your familiar with an open spell slot."|
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Except it is a metamagic feat, so that affects the casting. Presumably it means when you cast the spell it is transferred to the familiar.You mean the modifier that applies because it ups the spell level? The same modifier that metamagic rods explicitly say they don't apply?The rod should have no special effect here. What the familiar receives is the up-jumped spell, so a level 4 magic missile, even if it only cost you a level 1 slot. So a level 8 caster with a rod of Familiar Spell can toss two level 1 slots and give his familiar two magic missiles (this is for the 8th level caster).
The key is parenthetical in the rules "Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level..."
Metamagic rods let you cast spells without adjusting their level.
Nowhere does it say it lets you alter a spell before it's cast, nor does it say you can alter a spell while transferring it to your familiar without casting it.
All they affect is casting, so they cannot be used to give the Familiar any extra effects on the spells you transfer to them.
Presume nothing. The rules never once, ever, even tangentially, suggest that the spell is being cast as you transfer it to your familiar.
You're not casting. You can't use your rod. End of story.
Where is this feat? I do not see it in the list of metamagic feats. Not sure how I missed this. This would let me for 1 round send out 3 fireballs, two from me and one from my familiar :)
I would say this feat is special in that it just allows you to prepare spells in a different spot. You don't actually cast spells into your familiar. Much like the Heighten spell is special, so is this.
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Maybe you need to read the rules on Metamagic Feats. Metamagic by definition affects how you cast spells.
As long as you're quoting rules without reading them, let me aim your attention at some of them.
Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell-like abilities) as they are cast.
allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell-like abilities) as they are cast.
as they are cast.
as they are cast.
Gee, I wonder if you have to cast it to use a metamagic rod?
Since it doesn't say you don't cast it, the rules are very, very clear that you do. Casting it transfers the spell to the Familiar to cast it normally.
Uh... try the OPPOSITE of that phrasing. The rules don't say humans don't have 900 arms! Humans have 900 arms! The rules don't say I don't have wish at will. I have wish at will! Yay! You've solved everything.
I am not sure why it isn't in their list. It is tagged as metamagic in the description: Familir SpellWhere is this feat? I do not see it in the list of metamagic feats. Not sure how I missed this. This would let me for 1 round send out 3 fireballs, two from me and one from my familiar :)
I would say this feat is special in that it just allows you to prepare spells in a different spot. You don't actually cast spells into your familiar. Much like the Heighten spell is special, so is this.
I think I found it. It is in the Animal Archive Player Companion, which is why I have not seen it. Our group doesn't have that book and if we don't have the book we do not allow using things from it. Even if the internet has it listed.
This feat however is a different metamagic that doesn't follow conventional rules.
The first sentence of the feat says what it does:
You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar...Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.
When a wizard prepares his spells for the day he can't prepare them with any rods he posses.
That's all true but the feat is metamagic (although not working like most of them) and therefore rules for metamagic rods should apply (unless otherwise noted). It's really the wording that messes all up.
Btw under which category is this feat listed in the said book?Because i can see it under the "General Feats" despite being metamagic. Maybe the feat was not supposed to be metamagic at all?
This feat however is a different metamagic that doesn't follow conventional rules.
The first sentence of the feat says what it does:
You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar...When a wizard prepares his spells for the day he can't prepare them with any rods he posses.Where does it say this happens when you prepare spells? No where.
If you cast the prepared spell and that does the transfer, does it contradict the above text? No.
Seems like you reading things that aren't there.
Read it again, I did a ninja edit.
This feat however is a different metamagic that doesn't follow conventional rules.
The first sentence of the feat says what it does:
You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar...Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.When a wizard prepares his spells for the day he can't prepare them with any rods he posses.And? How does that change anything?
Prepare a spell in slot A.
Cast spell with Metamagic Familiar Spell Rod to put it on the familiar (e.g. transferring the prepared spell to the familiar).
You cannot prepare spells in slot A until the familiar casts that spell.
My apologies, I was in a different world lol. I thought you were all arguing about say you want to use a maximize rod to save a spell.
I would say the rod lets you "cast" them into your familiar where as without the rod you have to do it when you prepare. If not, what good does the rod do other than save you a feat?
By RAW, the rod doesn't increase the spell level, so it lets you store more spells in the familiar.I think you have to cast the spell to get it in the familiar either way. Nothing says it is done as part of preparation.
The wording for the rod is quite confusing:
The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that affect his familiar as through using the Familiar Spell feat.
Yes, I believe the Familiar Metamagic Rod lets you "cast" spells into your familiar without penalty.
The feat on the other had does say you do it during your spell prep.
you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.
Just for the record, "Rod of Metamagic, Familiar" is a theoretical item, not in any book.
Nevermind, my mistake - thanks Ignipotens.
The item makes it rather clear how it works: "The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that affect his familiar as though using the Familiar Spell feat."
Just for the record, "Rod of Metamagic, Familiar" is a theoretical item, not in any book.
No, It is in the Animal Archive Player Companion.