Hi there!
I'm going to start Rappan Athuk beginning next year. I gathered five players, which all want to share this experience (online). So I had a look at the complex and a couple of questions came to mind. I wanted to ask these questions here in the hope that some people, which already run this campaign (or running it at the moment) can help me with them...
1. What level should the heroes start? It is mentioned, that the first level shouldn't be entered with a lower level than 4th. I thought maybe I will run my players through the Mouth of Doom (and the two levels thereafter) as this seemed the best start for a low level party. Maybe I will lure them there with a quest... I thought about letting them start at 2nd level. Do you think, this is appropriate?
2. Regarding quests... I read somewhere that you should run Rappan Athuk not as one big complex, which you explore from front to back, but maybe give out little quests, so that the chars have to enter it again and again... Do you guys think so too? Is it ok just to let the chars run through the comnplex or would that become boring or repetitive? If you run it also with small quests, could you give me some examples?
3. If not run with quests, but as an endless crawl (in which the chars won't see the daylight again): How do you handle things like merchants? Where (other than Graznek) can the chars spent all the money they find and can stock up on rations and potions and get the one or other magic item? I thought about wandering merchants, but that is an invention of computer RPG's which I don't really like (as you can't really explain them...)
4. How do you handle character death? Or not so much the death, but the introduction of new chars? Does your party finds a lonely soul wandering through the dungeon or held in a cell or does they just appear? Or does your chars have to travel to the surface again to recruit new party members?
5. I want to give each character a "motivation" to go out and explore Rappan Athuk. Can you think of some good motivations? I mean others than fame or fortune, which let the chars go deeper than the upper levels? I think I will come up with a couple myself when I read through the whole book, but maybe some of you can inspire me? :o)
1) There were some freely available web enhancements for encounters leading up to entering the dungeon complex.
You could search for those, or alternately, get one of the level 1-4 modules here at Paizo and add some guidance hints towards the complex... or get volume 1 of an adventure path and then spring Rappan Athuk on the players when they are least expecting it.
2) Any big dungeon complex should be run in stages, otherwise there is the danger of dungeon dole-drums setting in. So, yes, I think this is best. Also consider opening out a side passage at various levels to underground grottoes and other areas of subterranean beauty.
3) Take some small side areas and make them into underground "villages" of dwellers who found a home and a life here. A merchant here or there, a subterranean inn for when monsters get thirsty from the adventure slaying - treated as neutral ground - let your PCs eyeball to eyeball with their impending death over a beer...
4) A large dungeon will have cells, prisoners, slaves. Getting new PCs into the adventure is easy this way, equipping them is harder. But if you are running as a continuing set of quests with regular forays back to the surface, then you shouldn't have too much of a problem.
5) Get the PCs to create backgrounds for their characters, then using those, you should be able to play off their own ideas. So, you have a family, oh dear, kidnapped by night raiders hiding somewhere in the dungeon complex... your family heirloom, gone, taken to the depths... etc.
But the best advice is...
Don't go down the well!
1) I started my players at level 1 in the Mouth of Doom. There are also the new levels that are low level.
2) My players regularly go back to Zelkor's Ferry to sell their hoard and re-equip. I have run RA many times so three of the previous PC's are acting as NPCs currently to provide item creation.
3) Have you read the new levels? The latest one is an underground town.
4) Usually new characters come in at town, but failing that they show up as wandering adventurers as survivors of their parties.
5) Let's see Orcus and his followers are trying to take over the entire area. If battling evil isn't enough for good characters, then the lure of gold and treasure rumored to be there generally does the trick. This is a dungeon, not an ecology experiment!
Go ahead, go down the well. There are plenty of open graves left! 14 of my players have died this rendition so far<WEG>!
1. I too am running Rappan Athuk online with D20Pro and loving it. My guys began the Mouth of Doom at 1st level, there were 6 characters and the adventure started with them being paid by a mages guild to explore and fully map the 3 levels and to find the holy water fountain on the 3rd level. Afterward the guild moved into the Mouth of Doom, thus turning it into a home-away-from home that connects to the dungeon proper, a place to rest and sell/buy. The Mouth lasted 7 sessions (8-10 hours apiece).
2. In terms of “quests”, I’ve focused on my charatcers stories, so once they finished the Mouth of Doom, they were paid to investigate the “exits” from the bottom floor (they chose the Teleportals) which led them to being trapped in the 1st floor of Rappan Atuk proper (where we are now). In regards to the characters, the rouge of the group is seeking the origins of his guild and has been given hints that the secrets lay in the Cyclopean Deeps well below Rappan Athuk, the paladin has been charged with cleaning the earth of Orcus, a psionic Vitalist is running away from a mysterious vampireish NPC who has an unhealthy interest in him, the barbarian is in love with another character and willing follows wherever he leads, the witch is a might bit power hungry and attached to the paladin and the Soulknife is paid help, but has his own inner voices calling him down into the earth.
Again, I’m focusing on stories that will keep the characters moving and invested in the exploring this mega-dungeon, with the relationships between the characters playing a major role in why they stay together and adventure.
Other meta-plot elements I’ve got brewing include an orc army (backed by priests of the Frog God) interested in invading the dungeon from above in order to return to their home of Greznek, the goblin city on level 12A, and the church of Iomadea being extremely interested in the PCs finding evidence of the Army of Light and their fate (potentially leading to a quest off to Slumbering Tsar).
3. Rappan Athuk has lots of connections and ways of getting to the surface (look at that giant map they did with the Kickstarter!) Also, like I said above, I turned the Mouth of Doom into a safe area and the Gut connects them right up!
4. I’m planning on seeding potential characters along the way, a man tortured by the clerics of Orcus and safely delievered back to the nearest city for healing and Restoration spells becomes an avenging force against Orcus. A gray dwarf from the Underdark seeks to strike a blow against the evils Temples before they wake the Sleeper In the Earth… Stuff like that.
5. See #2
P.S. Have fun! Rappan Athuk is pretty damn cool!
This thread is making me want to go and buy Rappan Athuk. I don't generally run pre-made material. I do however have a megadungeon I'm running in my homebrew and some of the lessons kind of apply.
As for quests, as Jeff said above look to your PCs' backgrounds for these. Even if your players aren't creating elaborate backstories you can use ANYTHING they seem to value for fodder. For instance I have a dwarf cleric of Saranrae in my homebrew w/virtually no backstory other than a destroyed home hall, the fact he was once a mason, and the word "kobolds" but I do know his character is all about using fire and healing. I'm going to put in a holy relic, like a font but instead of water it generates heat infused with positive energy.
I'll have his church come to him, tell him it's in a specific area, and have him be recruited to find it. This personally involves him and the other PCs won't mind coming along since they're into the dungeon crawl/team of characters thing.
I don't know much about RA but I do know there's a small tie into Orcus. You might have unique undead that the PCs are hired to find and destroy; you could have the cult's activity involve a slaver ring that needs breaking; perhaps there is a force looking to bind Orcus for themselves and dupe the party into hunting for a rare metal found in quantity in the dungeon so the masterminds to re-forge into Orcus Bindings.
Whatever the case, the other thing I've noticed is that my PCs at level 1, even optimized for dungeoneering, can't go more than a few encounters before needing to rest. As such I've provided a couple options:
1. The PCs found a kobold brothel staffed by LN courtesans. Yes, it sounds weird but the reality was the PCs paid their coin, got a night's rest, and were kept safe thanks to the discretion of the den. They then returned to town with one of the courtesans who wanted out of the dungeon; she will now become a contact for the PCs in their home city.
2. The home city of the PCs is only a half-day's walk. This is important because then they can reasonably return there so long as they can make it to the surface. This is why...
3. There are groups who've created safe havens in the dungeon. There's an enigmatic holy order that actively supports adventuring parties and holds down an underground complex. There is also a settlement, classified in the PF rules as a Village, but with a quality that increases the marketplace values there. The place is a dwarven hall created and mainly staffed by a large mercenary company. Here the PCs can rest, buy/sell small gear, and gather info. The dwarves will also deal with them for admittance to and from other parts of the dungeon but my party might not want to since these dwarves also work the same deals with kobolds.
The one other thing that a couple of my players have enjoyed is that the kobolds in my dungeon have a society and not everything in the dungeon is a slavering beast looking to kill/eat them. My players enjoyed parlaying with courtesans, learning that there's an evil kobold making scrolls out of people and hearing of the different locales in the dungeon. My advice then would be try to work in some NPCs in the dungeon who AREN'T evil or villains. Its not that a guy helps them while secretly plotting to destroy them later or whatever; maybe have your players meet someone in RA that genuinely wants to help.
Finally I'd say break up the slog of the dungeon with side quests. If you don't feel like creating unique sites/adventures you could still use the physical locale of Rappan Athuk, but perhaps create unique side plots like the Diablo games. In other words, when the party drags themselves back to town to heal up and sell loot, have them learn that a local water supply has been fouled. Said water supply runs near or through RA somewhere and this is where the taint is coming from. An NPC can take them right to it somehow and it's a quick, level-appropriate romp for the PCs to do some good and help out back in their non-dungeon lives.
However if you DO feel like running the PCs out of the dungeon, do that. Throw em a side quest to gather ingredients to cure a disease; send the party to a nearby village where a bunch of kobolds have sapped a wizard's tower; maybe have them seek out somehting needed to keep going in the dungeon, but put the McGuffin in the heart of a fey-tainted woodland.
Last but certainly not least, don't forget about downtime. Seriously, force your players to take some downtime here and there, especially in a PBP or online gaming scenario. These players may burn out fast if all they do is quest, loot, rest, repeat. Sometimes they need to just chat with NPCs; wander the town; make up a house or business for themselves. So long as the players feel invested in whatever region surrounds RA and immersed in the fictional background of that region, the more the players will have a real desire to keep going through the slog.
Just following this thread as well. Mark I just picked up my copy and had some references to it in my Slumbering Tsar Review. I've flipped through it a bit and it looks like its going to be a good one.
Like I said though, right now just following this thread. It's going to be some time before I have a chance to run it.
As to the OP's Questions I can help with 4 and 5.
4. How do you handle character death?
Much like in it's sister adventure, I often have player characters in cages, wandering around starving. I did an intro last game where a player's caravan was decimated and he ended up wandering the wilderness for 4 days before he stumbled across the pc's. Including making him do his own encounters solo, which consisted of running and hidding (or possibly dying). I don't shy away from character death, I'd only run these adventures for experienced players. I had another character walking through hunting a bandit with a big bounty on his head, of course the player was infected with contagious ghoul fever, that was fun.
5. I want to give each character a "motivation" to go out and explore Rappan Athuk. Can you think of some good motivations? In my game we've got characters that are so propagandized(sp?) by the church that they are literally diving headlong into something they don't understand. Another player heard overexaggerated tales of fortune and money, but by the time he got there he was nearly broke and starving. Other players get rumors about specific magic items that may be of interest to them, it might be a false rumor, but it works. Family ties where someone's great great grandmother was a warrior for the Army of Light and disappeared is a good way to go. Love is another great driving force, maybe someone's bride/groom was lost in a caravan traveling through the region and clues lead to Rappan Athuk.
I somehow missed point 5. Here are some sample reasons for exploration that my players are using in my homebrew. Feel free to adapt them to RA:
Paladin's father was a famous weapon smith with a magic anvil. Kobolds and dwarf mercenaries raided his village and stole the anvil. Common knowledge puts the mercenaries running a settlement in the dungeon confines and rumor says that kobolds coming out of the dungeon have masterwork/magic weapons w/his father's anvil mark on them
Dwarf cleric's home hall and foundry were destroyed by kobolds. They raided for the stores of mithril the hall had. Some great power is being used to forge powerful evil weapons now in the dungeon
Ranger has heard legends of the dungeon and craves heroic status for himself. He's looking to make his mark on the world through his adventures there.
Rappan Athuk has more than 'a little' to do with Orcus. The rumors and legends of Orcus should be well known and the players should have their own personal rumors from the rumor table. Taking on a Demon Lord who has made himself a god and is out to conquer the entire material plane tends to motivate most of my players. Treasure and monsters does the rest.
Wow! Just wow!
Thanks a lot guys! I found a lot of good ideas and advices here! And I will adopt a lot of them!
I really like the idea of an outpost in the Mouth of Doom (and the two levels which come after that). So the begin of my campaign has been settled! (together with the big problem where the players should do their shopping). You see, if this would have been the group I'm playing with for more than three years now, I wouldn't be worried that much, or at least I would knew, what I would need to worry about. But I'm playing with five people, which I never played RPG's with before (but at least I know four of them quiet good). So I don't know, if they will be pushing hard forward (which would lead to death) or being careful and go back to town often (which, with all these bandits out there, would also lead to death) or with ideas they will come up. It is exciting, seeing something different than the people you are used to play with, but there are a lot of unknown variables...
Anyway, thanks again! I will come up with little quests (the outpost in the MOuth of Doom will give me a nice quest hub). And as for the motivation: Yeah, maybe it's just enough that they feel the urge to clear the world from Orcus. I thought of individual goals, but maybe I will come up with a couple of them. You gave me a lot of good ideas in this direction... And with all the upcoming char-death's its almost impossible to give each new char an individual goal anyway!
So, now it's time for me to continue and finish that book, see what characters my players roll (for their first char!) and will see from there... Almost as always! :o)
I'm sooo excited! Finally I get the chance to run a megadungeon... that's something I wanted to do since I read Tomb of Horrors and the Undermountain supplement!
Killer Power,
By having the Mouth a base of operations it also gives you a place to attack if you want to change things up and have a defensive hold-the-line adventure. As I mentioned above, once my guys are comfortable with the Hermitage (the renamed Mouth of Doom) being a safe and happy place, I intend to march an army of orcs down into it on their way to the Gut and Greznek, thus they'll have to deal with evil orcs and cultists of Tsathogga to protect their home-away-from-home.
Jeff…
Hey guys, since everybody here is a DM, I have a quetsion about level one!
Rappan Athuk level 1- Ambush Question
I’m running the wererat ambush on level 1 this weekend and have been struggling a bit with the tactics and rules. So, as it’s written, the female wererat Filaar tries to lure the characters from area 11 to area 12, where she transforms and climbs into the tunnels and ends up 10 feet above the floor with the other archers. There are 20 dire rats below her waiting for the characters. Assuming the characters charge over the rubble they’ll be facing the dire rats and the wererat archers. So, this is where I’m a bit confused…
Sounds like once most of the characters are in there she throws the Dust of Sneezing and Choking down into the space (covering a 20 foot area), thus causing anybody in the area to be subject to that cursed item and either start dying by choking or are stunned by sneezing. I’m assuming the reason that Filaar and her cohort is unharmed is that they’re all 10 feet up off the ground and the dust settles down onto the characters. Does this sound right? Also, wouldn’t that kill all of the dire rats?
Just want to make sure I use this right as is that it has the potential to kill off some of my 6th level players!
That is generally the way I have ruled it. It doesn't affect any of the rats.
Thanks brvheart. Appreciate the input.
Why wouldn't it affect the dire rats?
They get out of the AOE either by using rat tunnels or scampering up the walls.
I'm actually thinking that rather than using the recommended 20 dire rats, I might use the Tome of Horror's direrat megaswarm to attack after the cloud clears (I'm guess it clears in one round?).
Not that rats are at all above killing their own kind to survive. Besides, in hours or days they would recruit more to fill the gaps.
I think Skeeter nailed it ... there would be hundreds of more rats available to fill the gaps in a short period of time.
RA is filled with Dire Rats and tunnels. After low levels I tend to ignore them on wandering monster rolls. Now a swarm would be different of course!
Why is it that everytime creepy crawlies get mentioned I try to throw in an excuse to use Filth Fever or some other disease....
As a DM I think I like status effects way to much.... viva la swarms!
Max was a good friend of my original party in RA. It is hard to recreate that special relationship he had with that party. They have had some interesting alliances over the years.
I like making it dynamic, but with so many levels now, it is hard to repopulate cleared levels.