Ancient lorekeeper mystic theurge


Rules Questions


I guess my question boils down to "Are an anceint lorekeeper's bonus spells devine or arcane?"
While looking at bonus spells this is usually a moot point as bonus spells are usually extra spells from the same class or a similar class.

She gets a spell from the wizard/sorcerer list and gets it as a bonus spell. Is this bonus spell an arcane spell or devine? In the intro to the class it seems the spells are coming from knowledge and studying of elven culture not from a deity of some kind.

where oracle's get there power usually:
(from the oracle intro)oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals

ancient lorekeeper intro:
The ancient lorekeeper is a repository for all the beliefs and vast knowledge of an elven people. She shows a strong interest in and understanding of histories and creation legends at a young age, and as she matures her calling to serve as the memory of her long-lived people becomes clear to all who know her.

The oracle's ability in question:

Elven Arcana (Ex)

At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper's mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast. The ancient lorekeeper gains this as a bonus spell known. The spell is treated as one level higher than its true level for all purposes. The ancient lorekeeper may choose an additional spell at 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th levels.

If they are arcane then a single class oracle could become a mystic theurge at what, 6? If you took a 1 level dip in any arcane class, that class would progress as well.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm going to call it divine because it's part of the oracles's class function.


He could become mystic theurge at level 7. 6 levels of oracle, 1 of theurge. Not really sure the benefit though. I mean, would be better to just go full oracle.


I also think it's divine.

One clarification - this ability allows you to cast a wiz/sorc cantrip using a first level spell slot to start, correct?

Shadow Lodge

Divine.


For those saying divine: are you saying divine because of a rule, the descriptions, how the spells work, or just because the base class is divine?
@ rockywilliams530 the why is because my GM ruled against the spell like abilities ruling for early entry. If the lorekeeper's arcane spells are actually arcane then with a one level dip in an arcane class you could get more spells and spell synthesis instead of 3 and 3 at best.


The spells are added to the oracle's spell list, and any spell on an oracle's spell list is divine.


Standard Wizard/Cleric theurge. Becomes theurge at level 7. Has three full levels of wizard, three levels of cleric, and adds 1 level to each with every level of mystic theurge, for the purposes of spells. You can, at level 20, eventually cast 9th level spells in either divine or arcane, and will be maxed out at 7th level spells in the other. Your caster level in your highest class will be 17, your lower 13th.

This oracle combination, if you add an arcane class as you stated you wish to. Becomes mystic theurge at level 8, with 6 levels of oracle, 1 level of an arcane class. If you go wizard, for highest spell level, at level 20 you'll be able to cast 8th level divine, and 6th level arcane. If you go sorcerer to stick with the non-prepared caster, you'll be casting 5th level arcane, same divine. Your divine caster level will be 19, and your arcane will be 11.

You'll have a better caster level but, you're completely giving up 9th level spells, unless I've done my figuring wrong. Or course, if you're not planning on going nearly that far, then it might be less of a bad deal.

If I play a theurge, I'll be using a 3rd party feat from a book my group likes. Improved Caster Level. It gives you a +4 to caster level, up to character level. So you wind up with full caster level for both types of spells throughout your career.


I'd allow it, but I'd be wrong. The right kind of wrong.

Which is way better than the wrong kind of right.


1 wizard, 9 oracle, 10 mystic theurge = 9th level oracle spells @ 19 with 6th level wizard spells to boot... unless I'm missing something.
If you have to take the level of wizard before mystic theurge (i.e. the theurge bonus wizard spells aren't retroactive) then you would still get 9th level spells at 20...?


Korthis wrote:

1 wizard, 9 oracle, 10 mystic theurge = 9th level oracle spells @ 19 with 6th level wizard spells to boot... unless I'm missing something.

If you have to take the level of wizard before mystic theurge (i.e. the theurge bonus wizard spells aren't retroactive) then you would still get 9th level spells at 20...?

The fact that there are even situations where you do not have a class with arcane spells, yet still qualify for a PrC that requires you to have arcane spells, is quite loathsome to me.

But they'd be retroactive. You'd get 9th level Oracle spells at 19.

That said, Ancient Lorekeeper spells are divine, just like a Fire domain cleric casting Fireball. So that's not a way to pre-qualify for MT. You could always hop on the Aasimar train though, I guess. Or a drow.

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