Non-Tetori grappler


Advice


How would you try to build a viable non-tetori grappler at higher levels? For the purpose of this exercise, ignore things like freedom of movement and at-will teleportation that many monsters have. I'm more concerned about how to counteract the ever-rising CMD.


off the top of my head: maneuver master monk 1 / brawler fighter 19. pretty good at grapplan, especially against casties. special note for race might be dwarf, since spellshatter is great.

or human brutal pugilist barbarian. grab body bludgeon rage power and the throw anything/catch off-guard feats, wear a belt of mighty hurling and toss people around (a grappler AND thrower build in one! not the most OP thing ever, but much fun for the whole table).


The Brutal Pugilist Barbarian can certainly get up there, CMB/CMD-wise, as can a Lore Warden Fighter, since both get a couple of bumps to CMB/CMD, with the Lore Warden going for pure numbers and the Brutal Pugilist adding some grapple-centric abilities.

Doing things like going human and taking the 'Bred for War' trait, being a worshipper of Falayna and taking the 'Celestial Obedience' feat, etc. can get you some extra bumps to your scores.

Also, non-tetoris generally have light armor options, and can get the Brawling enchantment.

The short answer to JUST countering the rising CMB/CMD scores is generally to get better access to Magical Items/Gear such as armbands of the brawler, gauntlets of the skilled maneuver and so on, but some of the stuff above can get you quite a few extra points to your CMB/CMD scores.


get a ghost touch AoMF ASAP for when the DM decides to say you cant grapple a ghost. tack on phase locking for those pesky dimdoor wizards.

chokehold feat is useful, and consider grabbing size-increasing buffs to grapple bigger things later, since the enemy's size category tends to quickly outstrip yours.


The Sensei makes a pretty good grappler, if your DM is of the opinion that the 2nd level ability allows you to use Wisdom for grapple checks. Not only does this make the monk less MAD, the advice ability is a great way to further boost your grapple checks.

Shadow Lodge

im going to warn you, you wont enjoy playing your grappler if you dont boost your CMD asmuch as possible. thats why tetori is better then most other options, when built correctly they can have an insane touch AC and CMD, making many creatures cry bloody tears while they get grappled to death.

Silver Crusade

AndIMustMask wrote:
get a ghost touch AoMF ASAP for when the DM decides to say you cant grapple a ghost.

By RAW, you would still be unable to grapple a ghost.

Incorporeal wrote:
Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled.

Even if you have a ghost touch AoMF or ghost touch whip, incorporeal are still immune to those maneuvers.

Without GM fiat, only the 17th level Tetori Inescapable Grasp allows you to grapple an incorporeal being.


Druids also make fine grapplers if you take the right feats. With the size boost, the strength boost, the ability to transform into shapes with the grab ability they can keep their CMB up pretty well. Plus they can get the constrict ability.

Shadow Lodge

AndIMustMask wrote:

get a ghost touch AoMF ASAP for when the DM decides to say you cant grapple a ghost. tack on phase locking for those pesky dimdoor wizards.

chokehold feat is useful, and consider grabbing size-increasing buffs to grapple bigger things later, since the enemy's size category tends to quickly outstrip yours.

tetori bloodragers are going to be insane grappling characters


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

A Qinggong monk that took 'improved grapple' feat and then at 4th level can take 'true strike' ki ability can apply that ki power to the attack roll for grapple. +20 added to the CMB + Die Roll can make you very effective to grapple. You're looking at 25 - 43 CBM per roll. At 4th level. Repeat for round 2 and you have something pinned and the GM ticked at you.

Add the Shirt of Immolation to enhance your grapples.


doesnt it still take an action to activate the true strike ki ability? afaik its not quickened, so you'd take four turns for a double +20 grapple.


well... a few options:
druid, saurian or lion shaman: go huge, take the feat that make you gargantuan, 1 level of monk and by level 9 you will have HUGE cmb.
memories dispel magic, and cast on opponent.
take domain, not animal, take war domain and you now also have enlarge person... you ARE gargantuan that can grab colossal...
yes your CMD wont be too great, but with a round of attack + grab + greater grab as move... each round... the opponent getting free is a waste.

option 2:
druid, go earth elemental form - huge.
take cave domain = tremor sense.
enter the floor... go under the foe invisible and quick, raize grab (with lockjaw spell) and re enter floor if you are hurt.
the skirmish grappler i call him.

option 3:
druid, learn dodge-mobility-spring attack, go petrosaurous, huge animal, grab as you fly grab and let go...

all are GREAT WITH NON grapple options if you must.


Barbarian, strength surge grapple some fools.


wasn't the question simply how to generate large CMB/CMD totals


Lamontius wrote:

wasn't the question simply how to generate large CMB/CMD totals

That was the base, but I wanted a good grappler in general. Shirt of Immolation, etc. does help.

Now, a challenge based on something I recently found: Make a grapple-focused white-haired witch.


Sadly, it can't be combined with the scarred witch doctor... if it could, you could have just dropped it on top of the scarred/barb/eldritch knight build.

As it is, EK is definitely a good option to boost your BAB at least. You could enter it through Magus (probably some archetype, hexcrafter could fit).

Silver Crusade

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Bloodyraven wrote:
A Qinggong monk that took 'improved grapple' feat and then at 4th level can take 'true strike' ki ability can apply that ki power to the attack roll for grapple. +20 added to the CMB + Die Roll can make you very effective to grapple. You're looking at 25 - 43 CBM per roll. At 4th level. Repeat for round 2 and you have something pinned and the GM ticked at you.

Unfortunately, qing gong true strike is a SLA and 1) would require a standard action to use and 2) a concentration check if you have the grappled condition. You could use it the round before a grapple but you won't get much use out of it IN a grapple until you have Greater Grapple and a solid concentration check.

To the OP:
Cracked Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone to hold 1 spell level. Load it with True Strike. Good for the initial grapple, or subsequent grapple with Greater Grapple. No concentration check needed.


also another good build:
2 level maneuver master rest is lore warden.
take feats like ki throw, binding throw improve trip and grapple line.

you attack + trip that lead to AOO*2 that lead to free grapple ....
with amazing cmd and cmb.

your round will never end.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

wasn't the question simply how to generate large CMB/CMD totals

That was the base, but I wanted a good grappler in general. Shirt of Immolation, etc. does help.

Now, a challenge based on something I recently found: Make a grapple-focused white-haired witch.

look up the defiler hexcrafter magus build.

good at grappling, and hands out debuffs like candy by abusing a dip in WH witch.

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