Need a Paladin Build


Advice


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Hey guys, I'm playing in a Rise of the Runelords game and have decided to make a Paladin. I'm not super familiar with the class, though, so I'm not exactly sure how to build him. As far as healing goes, we have an abundance of wands and a dedicated, well built cleric. The party is fairly tanky, as well, so AC isn't the hugest concern. I don't need to be a wall to intercept damage. What I need most is upfront damage. I'm not sure how to build a Paladin to be a great damage dealer, however. Obviously, Power-Attack is a must but after that? No clue.

If you guys have a suggested build or feat progression, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks!


A standard Paladin could go like this:

Tiefling (+2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Int (for the favored class bonus mainly)

Oath of Vengence archetype (stacks with oath against fiends if you are interested)

Feats:

1 Fey Foundling
3 Power Attack
5 Extra lay on Hands
7 Skill Focus: Survival
9 Eldrich heritage: Touch of Rage
11 Eldrich heritage: Strenght of the Beast
13 Quicken Spell-like ability (Touch of Rage)
15 Extra Lay on Hands
17 Eldrich heritage: Power of Giants
19 Quicken Spell-like ability (Power of Giants)

Pretty basic concept, stack fey foundling, extra lay on hands and tiefling favored class bonus for massive swift action healing. Convert lay on hands to smite evil when necessary. Massive damage and other boosts from the Orc Eldrich heritage feats (best to combine it with the Opportunistic gambler trait).

An interesting alternative is taking the Sacred Servant archetype (stacks with oath of vengence) for the domains. Here STR Rager discusses two builds that utilize the Tactics and Rage subdomains respectively.


Point buy? What books are allowed?
What races are allowed?


Sorry, it slipped my mind. Only core races are allowed. I'm probably going to be playing Human. As long as it's officially Paizo, all books are allowed. 15 point buy.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Have you considered an archer-paladin?


We have enough ranged, we need another major melee character.


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Oath of Vengeance is overrated imo. Extra smites are okay, but you really don't need to smite everything that moves to kill it.

Myself, I prefer the spell list from Oath Agaisnt the Wyrm, though it gives up channeling which is meh.

Human would probably serve you best for a melee paladin build. Though half-elf picking up Skill Focus Survival for the use of the above Eldritch Heritage could also be beneficial.

Human build:

(7)STR 17
(2)DEX 12
(2)CON 12
(3)INT 13
(-4)WIS 7
(5) CHA 14

That racial +2 should go either into STR or CHA, if you can play a dual talent human from the ARG, I would, and select both STR and CHA, and forgo taking Fey Foundling.

traits) Extremely Fashionable (Intimidate); Magical Knack
lvl 1) Power Attack; Fey Foundling
lvl 3) Mercy: Sickened; Weapon Focus/Greater Mercy
lvl 4) +1 STR (18)
lvl 5) Unsanctioned Knowledge (Wrath/Expeditious Retreat; Alter Self; Haste; Divine Power)
lvl 6) Mercy: Diseased
lvl 7) Cornugon Smash
lvl 8) +1 CHA (15)
lvl 9) Mercy: Cursed; Furious Focus
lvl 11) Death From Above
lvl 12) Mercy: Blinded; +1 CHA (16)
lvl 13) Dreadful Carnage
lvl 15) Mercy: Poisoned; Fearless Aura
lvl 16) +1 CHA (17)
lvl 17) Word of Healing
lvl 18) Mercy: Paralyzed
lvl 19) Toughness
lvl 20) +1 CHA (18)

Skills:
Intimidate (max)
Diplomacy (max)
Sense Motive (max)

If you do get to take the dual talent human, I would spread out the skill ranks from Sense motive to cover the rest of your skills and make sure you have at least one rank into each of your class skills, if you want to use your favored class bonus on a skill, Perception is probably the best way to go, though as a paladin who dumps WIS perception really isn't all that useful to you.

I personally recommend Oath Against the Wyrm because it gives you Bear's Endurance, which is useful given that you can't buy into a higher CON score. Fly is also a ridiculously useful spell, so much so that I bothered to take Death From Above, which coupled with Furious Focus means you can make flying charge attacks and essentially gain +10 on the attack roll compared to what other builds would be getting.

If you do want to go the Sacred Servant/ Oath of Vengeance route, I recommend Abadar as your deity as he grants access to the Travel domain, and I would pick up the Trade subdomain which would give you a once a day bonus to a party face check.


Depending on what you are looking for I would recommend one of two things. If damage is what you are after go for an oath of vengeance paladin. Pick up power attack and then for extra lay on hands to get you even more smites.

If you want a more defensive paladin go the masochist paladin. Take fey foundling at 1st level and then power attack with your next feat. Pick up greater mercy to heal more with each lay on hands and then extra lay on hands for more healing. You may want to look at the warrior of the holy light archetype for even more lay on hands. You want a moderate AC so people are going to target you, but not so low you get killed outright in the first round. The whole idea is that you take the hit and swift action heal to ignore the damage.


Have you looked here?


I read the guide and it had some very useful tips. The third Paladin type listed there (The Castigator Paladin), is definitely the style I'm going for.

What about a Castigator Paladin as a dual talent human? That would make it easier to buff my STR and CHA without having to take as many negs.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

what you really want is an angelkin paladin with arcane strike and power attack, although that doesn't seem to fit within your parameters...

i love paladins... i play them more often than any other class, but i feel like i should warn you that you're gonna have an uphill struggle here... paladins have trouble dishing out damage when they cant smite, most of the things that usually make up for that won't really apply in the party you described; and high damage paladin builds usually really want a higher point buy.

if you want to try, definitely go the 2hander route (its the least feat intensive damage). in a 15 point buy (and the party you described) prioritize Str above all else; power attack is essential, focus spells on combat self-buffs. human is your best bet (for +2 str and a bonus feat). if you're GM will allow you to take the trait Aluring(religion) or Wendifa Apprentice(faith) do so- it will qualify you for arcane strike (and keeps your effective CL equal to your character level).

Grand Lodge

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my paladin build..

STR 17
Dex 7
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 17

1. Fighter1 (Weapon Master) Power Attack*(fighter) / Iron Will (for Divine Scion)
2. Oracle of Lore1 (Seeker) [Revelation Sidestep Secret (Su)](Cha to AC & reflex saves)
3. Paladin1 [Detect Evil, Aura of Good] Extra Revelation [Lore Keeper]
4. Paladin2 [Cha to Saves, Lay on Hands]
5. Fighter2 Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)* / Extra Revelation [Focused Trance (Ex)]
6. Paladin3 [Aura of courage, divine health, mercy, Lay on Hands 2d6]
7. Paladin4 [Smite 2/day Channel Positive] Greater Mercy (Extra 1d6 on Lay on hands/Channel)
8. Fighter3 [Weapon Training (Bastard Sword)]
9. Divined Scion1 Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)
10. Paladin5 [Divine Bond – Mount?]
11. Paladin6 Boon Companion (Paladin Mount is now level 11)
12. Paladin7 [Smite evil 3/day]
13. Paladin8 [Aura of resolve – seriously useful against confusion etc] Improved Critical (Bastard Sword/Sunblade)
14. Fighter4 Greater Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword/Sunblade)*(fighter) / Greater Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword/Sunblade)
15. Paladin9 Ultimate Mercy (Bring Back Folks form the Dead with Lay on Hands!) – Channel/Lay on Hands 6d6 if no conditions, 5d6
otherwise

Traits:
Defender of the Society +1 trait bonus to AC!!!
Perception Trait (This is in Ultimate campaign – social) -> Seeker doesn’t give perception as a Class Skill (only gives Disable Device) despite being a rogue so this is important! +1 perception and is a Class Skill

Favored Class Paladin (Take the Skill points!)

Items to buy:

Silver Smite Bracelets (Will Smite as +4 levels Paladin)
Sunblade
+6 Cha Booster
+6 Belt of Str/Con
Dueling Gloves (+2 hit and damage with Bastard Sword/Sunblade and CANNOT be disarmed of it!)
Eyes of the Eagle (to find traps as wisdom is s*%#house)
Ioun Stone of Int (you need this to get Spellcraft or something as your Skill requirements for Divine Scion are large)
Celestial Armor
Boots of Speed because Duh
Trap finding ring or whatever it is called that gives +5 Disable Device (as you have bad dex for disarming traps)

Your damage at level 15, WITHOUT BUFFS will be

Str 26 (+12)
Power Attack BaB 13 (+12)
Wpn Training with Gloves (+3)
+2 Wpn (Sunblade +4 vs Undead) (+2)
Wpn Spec (+2)
Greater Wpn Spec (+2)

= 1d10 + 33 (17-20 x2) + Bless weapon auto confirm!

Vs Undead

= 2d10 + 70 (17-20x3) + Bless weapon auto confirm!

With Smite

= 2d10 + 96 (17-20x3) + Bless weapon auto confirm!

That’s UNBUFFED.

Your To Hit will be MASSIVE as well

Bab +13
Str +8
Wpn Training +3
Wpn Focus Feats +2
Power Attack -4
+2 Wpn
+1 Haste

= +24/+24/+19/+14

OR

= +26/+26/+21/+16 vs Undead

With Smite and Cha 24 (+7)

= + 33 vs non Undead, +35 vs Undead!

with this build you can find and remove traps, bring people back from the dead and hit real hard also with plenty of knowledge to identify things.


Anyxyl wrote:

I read the guide and it had some very useful tips. The third Paladin type listed there (The Castigator Paladin), is definitely the style I'm going for.

What about a Castigator Paladin as a dual talent human? That would make it easier to buff my STR and CHA without having to take as many negs.

I like it well enough since the paladin is not a very feat starved class, as long as you get the few gems that there are in, then the dual talent human does well for you. I even suggested it up above.


Yeah, you made me remember that dual talent humans were a thing. I totally forgot. I have to make sure the DM is cool with it, he's super picky about races.


For a high lvl campaign, teh Focused Study human alt racial trait is escellent for eldrich heritage feats.

Oath of Vengence also lets you give a lesser smite ability to all your allies, and gives you access to Blessing of Fervor, probably the best buff of its level.


look up damocles guile's "lay on handiman" build. it's simple and incredibly effective.

Shadow Lodge

Anyxyl wrote:
Hey guys, I'm playing in a Rise of the Runelords game and have decided to make a Paladin. I'm not super familiar with the class, though, so I'm not exactly sure how to build him. As far as healing goes, we have an abundance of wands and a dedicated, well built cleric. The party is fairly tanky, as well, so AC isn't the hugest concern.
<evil laugh> ....you say that now....
Quote:
I don't need to be a wall to intercept damage. What I need most is upfront damage.
Paladins are walls: it's why they have the best saves and AC in the game versus evil.
Quote:
I'm not sure how to build a Paladin to be a great damage dealer, however. Obviously, Power-Attack is a must but after that? No clue.
An extended-threat weapon to maximize your numeric bonuses to damage while smiting.
Quote:
If you guys have a suggested build or feat progression, I'd love to hear them.

My favorite paladin build is a halfling with a light smattering of rogue levels (usually two) and an agile light weapon.

Wisdom is your dump stat regardless of race (and regardless of how much you think you need a rockin' Perception score). Dump it, and dump it hard to shift those groovy savings to other areas where they'll do more good.

20pt halfling built with 15,14,14,14,12,07 array:

STR-12
DEX+17 (bump 4th)
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:07
CHA+16 (other bumps)


if you're looking for ideas, check out bodhi's guide to the paladin and antipaladin in the sticky at the top of the advice forum--it's an optimization guide, yes, but you don't have to follow it to the letter. It has some good ideas for you to build off of.

personally i'd recommend picking up unsanctioned knowledge, furious focus, greater mercy, and ultimate mercy or radiant charge (both are nice, but not required) later on.

lunge is greatly helpful--it increases your murder-radius, and makes you a bigger target (by hitting your AC), which keeps the ehat off your allies.

some early feats that help streamline you might be fey foundling (gives your LoH a little more oomph when used on yourself), and/or noble scion (scion of war, uses your CHA for initiative, rather than DEX).

(these are all just to give you suggestions or ideas)


AndIMustMask wrote:

if you're looking for ideas, check out bodhi's guide to the paladin and antipaladin in the sticky at the top of the advice forum--it's an optimization guide, yes, but you don't have to follow it to the letter. It has some good ideas for you to build off of.

personally i'd recommend picking up unsanctioned knowledge, furious focus, greater mercy, and ultimate mercy or radiant charge (both are nice, but not required) later on.

lunge is greatly helpful--it increases your murder-radius, and makes you a bigger target (by hitting your AC), which keeps the ehat off your allies.

some early feats that help streamline you might be fey foundling (gives your LoH a little more oomph when used on yourself), and/or noble scion (scion of war, uses your CHA for initiative, rather than DEX).

(these are all just to give you suggestions or ideas)

Radiant Charge is a trap, don't ever take it, ever.


master_marshmallow wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:

if you're looking for ideas, check out bodhi's guide to the paladin and antipaladin in the sticky at the top of the advice forum--it's an optimization guide, yes, but you don't have to follow it to the letter. It has some good ideas for you to build off of.

personally i'd recommend picking up unsanctioned knowledge, furious focus, greater mercy, and ultimate mercy or radiant charge (both are nice, but not required) later on.

lunge is greatly helpful--it increases your murder-radius, and makes you a bigger target (by hitting your AC), which keeps the ehat off your allies.

some early feats that help streamline you might be fey foundling (gives your LoH a little more oomph when used on yourself), and/or noble scion (scion of war, uses your CHA for initiative, rather than DEX).

(these are all just to give you suggestions or ideas)

Radiant Charge is a trap, don't ever take it, ever.

care to elaborate?

I mostly use it to tack on some extra damage with the frankly disgusting number of LoH i have laying about on something that simply NEEDS to die, and only grab it later (15, 17, or 19) after i've gotten the bigger contenders for my feat slots.


AndIMustMask wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:

if you're looking for ideas, check out bodhi's guide to the paladin and antipaladin in the sticky at the top of the advice forum--it's an optimization guide, yes, but you don't have to follow it to the letter. It has some good ideas for you to build off of.

personally i'd recommend picking up unsanctioned knowledge, furious focus, greater mercy, and ultimate mercy or radiant charge (both are nice, but not required) later on.

lunge is greatly helpful--it increases your murder-radius, and makes you a bigger target (by hitting your AC), which keeps the ehat off your allies.

some early feats that help streamline you might be fey foundling (gives your LoH a little more oomph when used on yourself), and/or noble scion (scion of war, uses your CHA for initiative, rather than DEX).

(these are all just to give you suggestions or ideas)

Radiant Charge is a trap, don't ever take it, ever.

care to elaborate?

I mostly use it to tack on some extra damage with the frankly disgusting number of LoH i have laying about on something that simply NEEDS to die, and only grab it later (15, 17, or 19) after i've gotten the bigger contenders for my feat slots.

Mostly because LoH is a very important resource that I don't wanna waste on one attack against one enemy only once in a day.


At higher levels it can be excellent against the BBEG... It makes a perfect finisher.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
At higher levels it can be excellent against the BBEG... It makes a perfect finisher.

hence why i grab it at 15-ish. if i kill the big guy and there's other fights later, i can rely on my other powers, spells, and general paladin badassery to pull me through.

at the very least the big threat earlier is most assuredly dead, so no regrets there.


It works wonders against say a Devil commanding cultists in a fight.

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