Hi Everyone,
I'm currently making a weapon and shield ranger, and every post about it I'm seeing recommends Shield Slam at level 2. I dont quite understand the appeal though, so maybe you can enlighten me.
The reason I'm confused is that Shield slam works in two scenarios
1.Single Shield Bash or Charge: In this case, you perform a single bull rush maneuver and push them back some amount of space, but unless there's a wall or obstacle in the way for them to hit, it doesn't seem particularly impressive.
2.Multiple Shield Bashes: Lets say I have Improved Two Weapon fighting, and I have 3 Main hand and two offhand attacks, I'm next to an enemy so I can full attack. I begin the attack with the main hand sword or whatever, then hit with the shield. I succeed the shield bash and subsequent bull rush maneuver, and push him back 5 feet. In order to continue attacking, I have to use a 5 foot step. I 5 foot step forward, hit with sword again, then hit with shield and succeed on the bull rush, pushing him back 5 feet again. In this case, I've lost my final sword attack, since I can no longer follow him.
I'm aware that shield slam\bull rush simply provides more optionsbut is it worth having at all?
1.) Shield Slam + Greater Bull Rush = free attacks of opportunity for your allies. It's a pretty solid way to boost DPR.
2.) I'm pretty sure you can declare your attacks in any order. Thus, you can make your sword attacks first, then shield bash/slam.
There are a couple benefits to getting a free Bull Rush via Shield Slam.
1. You potentially deny a full attack action to an enemy. This ties in well with:
2. You provide battlefield control as a non-spellcaster, without sacrificing damage output. You can move bad guys with pointy things away from the wizard if the wizard messed up and allowed the bad guy with pointy things too close.
3. Knocking something prone is an amazing debuff. -4 for them to attack, +4 for you to hit, they provoke if they try to stand.
PRD wrote: If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. It's slightly unclear whether this means that you have to go sword/shield/sword-5/shield-5/sword-10 or if you can go sword/sword-5/sword-10/shield/shield-5. Personally, I'd allow it in any order as I think this is a silly rule.
Detect Magic wrote: 1.) Shield Slam + Greater Bull Rush = free attacks of opportunity for your allies. It's a pretty solid way to boost DPR.
2.) I'm pretty sure you can declare your attacks in any order. Thus, you can make your sword attacks first, then shield bash/slam.
attacks have to be highest to lowest.
I like Mudfoot's ruling more, as that's how I've always played, but it's probably a house rule, as the PRD says otherwise.
well... its useful but only if size of monsters wont be an issue...
By itself, it's not awesome.
With Foehammer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf/foehammer-fighter-dwarf), it's sort of amazing. You can basically prevent enemies from ever getting a single attack off of on you, by knocking them 10 feet back and prone any time they get close. =)
-Cross
Crosswind wrote: By itself, it's not awesome.
With Foehammer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf/foehammer-fighter-dwarf), it's sort of amazing. You can basically prevent enemies from ever getting a single attack off of on you, by knocking them 10 feet back and prone any time they get close. =)
-Cross
Add truestrike to that and knock the enemy back 30 feet. All you need is one level of Sorcerer.
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Robert A Matthews wrote: Crosswind wrote: By itself, it's not awesome.
With Foehammer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf/foehammer-fighter-dwarf), it's sort of amazing. You can basically prevent enemies from ever getting a single attack off of on you, by knocking them 10 feet back and prone any time they get close. =)
-Cross
Add truestrike to that and knock the enemy back 30 feet. All you need is one level of Sorcerer. As the Pathfinder Advice Board's Greatest Defender of Cleave and Great Cleave, I am a big fan of the Captain America SLAM-CLEAVE wherein our hero knocks all enemies near him back a bunch and on their asses.
-Cross
Robert A Matthews wrote: Crosswind wrote: By itself, it's not awesome.
With Foehammer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf/foehammer-fighter-dwarf), it's sort of amazing. You can basically prevent enemies from ever getting a single attack off of on you, by knocking them 10 feet back and prone any time they get close. =)
-Cross
Add truestrike to that and knock the enemy back 30 feet. All you need is one level of Sorcerer. Don't even need that level. All you need is a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism and a wand of true strike.
The free shield bash is optional. So, don't take the bash until your last swing that you beleive will hit.
Okay. The fact that the shield bash is optional, and the possibility of performing the bashes after all sword attacks are complete helps alleviate some of the potential downsides I had in mind. Thanks guys. :)
Yes, this is great if you are actually good with a shield bash. I have a shield/shield ranger that has defended very effectively against a ship boarding. The key to remember is most creatures CMD is normally close to their AC or less...so if you hit AC then you likely did a bull rush if you wanted. In tight corners it's better than trip, and unlike trip you can knock them prone again as the try to stand up again....:)
Brotato wrote:
1. You potentially deny a full attack action to an enemy. This ties in well with:
Causing the enemy to move more than 5 feet with a bull rush subtracts that amount to their total move on their next turn? Or is it the fact that they have to stand up if knocked prone? Also how is bullrushing into an ally handled?
also OP said he wants shield slam at level 2
Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.
How does that work?
Im building a TWF shield slam character currently so this is a great read, thanks.
It's a level two feat in one of the ranger combat styles. I think the sword and board one, but I could be wrong.
akrippler wrote: Causing the enemy to move more than 5 feet with a bull rush subtracts that amount to their total move on their next turn? Or is it the fact that they have to stand up if knocked prone? Bull rush doesn't affect the target's movement.
If you push the target further than 5 feet away (and they don't have reach) and don't follow, they can't full attack you, because they have to use a move action to get you back within their reach.
akrippler wrote: also OP said he wants shield slam at level 2
Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.
How does that work?
It's on the bonus feat list for the weapon-and-shield ranger combat style (found in the APG). Rangers don't have to meet the prereqs for their bonus feats.
Spatula wrote: akrippler wrote: Causing the enemy to move more than 5 feet with a bull rush subtracts that amount to their total move on their next turn? Or is it the fact that they have to stand up if knocked prone? Bull rush doesn't affect the target's movement.
If you push the target further than 5 feet away (and they don't have reach) and don't follow, they can't full attack you, because they have to use a move action to get you back within their reach.
akrippler wrote: also OP said he wants shield slam at level 2
Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.
How does that work?
It's on the bonus feat list for the weapon-and-shield ranger combat style (found in the APG). Rangers don't have to meet the prereqs for their bonus feats. Thanks, I was under the impression you had to follow them to push them more than 5 feet. That is not the case?
Also are you able to move 5 feet inbetween attacks during a full attack? Example: Swing sword, shield bash, bull rush them 5 feet back so friend gets AoO, move up 5 feet, swing sword, shield bash bullrush 5 feet back again?
Thanks for the clarification, I'm relatively new obviously.
You only need to push them 5 feet and then you can take a 5 ft step back.
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