Arcanist Rules Questions


Advanced Class Guide Playtest General Discussion


I have a couple of rules questions about Arcanists around spells prepared and exploits.

Their spells their entry says that:

Quote:
Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster affect the number of spells the arcanist can prepare.

The Expanded Arcana Feat says:

Quote:
Add one spell from your class's spell list to your list of spells known. This is in addition to the number of spells normally gained at each new level in your class. You may instead add two spells from your class's spell list to your list of spells known, but both of these spells must be at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast in that class. Once made, these choices cannot be changed.

This would suggest that you could gain extra spells prepared using the Feat. However it also says:

Quote:
Special: You can only take this feat if you possess levels in a class whose spellcasting relies on a limited list of spells known, such as the bard, oracle, and sorcerer.You can gain Expanded Arcana multiple times.

Obviously the Arcanist did not exist at the time the feat was created. A very strict RAW interpretation would probably say you cannot benefit from Expanded Arcana however given then text in their spells entry it seems like the intention was that they could do so, given the feat is the main was to get extra spells known. If it does work then obviously retraining opens up further options to keep the spells relevant.

On Exploits Dimensional Slide says:

Quote:
The arcanist can expend one point from her arcane reservoir to create a dimensional crack that she can step through to reach another location. This ability is used as part of a move action, allowing her to move up to 10 feet per arcanist level to any location she can see; this is in place of 5 feet of movement. She can only use this ability once per round. She does not provoke an attack of opportunity for the movement caused by this ability, but any other movement provokes as normal.

So how does this actually work then? The ability references a move action however lots of different things are move actions such as standing from prone, drawing a weapon, or opening a door which don't require you to actually move. Can these be used with Dimensional Slide or is the intention for it to only work with a move. The fluff would suggest yet but the wording leaves it unclear.

Similarly can you use this to escape a grapple? While grappled you cannot move but can still take move actions.


I'm pretty sure that first line you quoted qualifies them to take Expanded Arcana.

As for Dimensional Slide, the teleport replaces 5 feet of movement, so you have to be moving at least 5 feet. You cannot do it while standing from prone, drawing a weapon, opening a door, or escaping a grapple, because none of those things involve you moving 5 feet.

Liberty's Edge

mplindustries wrote:
I'm pretty sure that first line you quoted qualifies them to take Expanded Arcana.

If you could somehow take Expanded Arcana, it would allow them to gain the benefits to their spells prepared. But the ability to use spells known as spells prepared doesn't say that they qualify for effects that they wouldn't normally qualify for, it only modifies those effects if they somehow get them.

It's pretty obvious that RAI should allow you to take Expanded Arcana, but RAW says no. It'll need a clarification in the Arcanist description.

Quote:
As for Dimensional Slide, the teleport replaces 5 feet of movement, so you have to be moving at least 5 feet. You cannot do it while standing from prone, drawing a weapon, opening a door, or escaping a grapple, because none of those things involve you moving 5 feet.

I'm wondering if a 5t step qualifies, since a 5ft step isn't actually a specific type of action (it's listed under miscellaneous actions). If I take a 5ft step as part of a different, non-movement action, can I use that 5ft of movement to sacrifice for the teleportation of Dimension Slide? It does specifically say that you can take a 5ft step during another action.

My guess is that you can't do that, but I wouldn't mind a specific answer from a dev just to make sure.

The Exchange

Well, Dimensional Slide states that it is used as part of a move action, so it couldn't be a 5 ft step since that isn't an action. However, from my reading, it says that the teleportation is part of a move action and replaces 5 ft of movement, which seems to me that you still get the rest of the movement from that move action, ie. a 5th level character with 30ft base speed would teleport 50 feet and then move the remaining 25 feet. Or, teleport at any other point in the movement by spending that 5 feet of movement. Not sure if that's what was intended, but that's how it's written, at least to my eyes. That would also mean that you could still draw a weapon in that movement, provided you have BAB +1.

If that is indeed how this ability works and does not get rewritten, then this is my new favorite ability ever

Lantern Lodge

andreww wrote:

I have a couple of rules questions about Arcanists around spells prepared and exploits.

Their spells their entry says that:

Quote:
Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster affect the number of spells the arcanist can prepare.

The Expanded Arcana Feat says:

Quote:
Add one spell from your class's spell list to your list of spells known. This is in addition to the number of spells normally gained at each new level in your class. You may instead add two spells from your class's spell list to your list of spells known, but both of these spells must be at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast in that class. Once made, these choices cannot be changed.

This would suggest that you could gain extra spells prepared using the Feat. However it also says:

Quote:
Special: You can only take this feat if you possess levels in a class whose spellcasting relies on a limited list of spells known, such as the bard, oracle, and sorcerer.You can gain Expanded Arcana multiple times.
Obviously the Arcanist did not exist at the time the feat was created. A very strict RAW interpretation would probably say you cannot benefit from Expanded Arcana however given then text in their spells entry it seems like the intention was that they could do so, given the feat is the main was to get extra spells known. If it does work then obviously retraining opens up further options to keep the spells relevant.

I suspect that you can take Expanded Arcana. Don't forget the following language found in the Spells section of the Arcanist:

Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster affect the number of spells the arcanist can prepare.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Let's look at it from another perspective. The Arcanist is going off of Spells Known just like a Sorcerer, the difference is that he can change those spells around from the spellbook. The feat would add known spells for the Arcanist, just as it would the Sorcerer, while leaving the spells cast per day the same.

Other feats for the Wizard that envolves replenishing spells spent (Forgotten) would most likely not be worth getting, a feat tax that is avoided.

As much as I want the Wizard to be made obsolete, the limits and overall structure of the Arcanist doesn't do that. It is a credit to the developers that they can do a wizardly sorcerer without invalidating one or the other.

Grand Lodge

Quote:

Bloodline Development: The arcanist can select one

bloodline from any of those available to bloodline
sorcerer class feature. The arcanist gains that bloodline’s
bloodline arcana and 1st-level bloodline power, as though
she were a 1st-level sorcerer. As a swift action, the arcanist
can expend one point from her arcane reservoir to bolster
her latent nature, allowing her to treat here arcanist level
as her sorcerer level for these abilities for 1 minute for the
purposes of the bloodline arcana and 1st-level bloodline
power. (For example, a 7th-level arcanist with the
destined bloodline normally can only bestow an insight
bonus of +1 from the touch of destiny bloodline power,
but by expending one point from her arcane reservoir,
the insight bonus is instead +3.) She does not gain any
new abilities from this use, such as those gained at 3rd
level. This exploit cannot be used to gain an arcane bond
through the arcane bloodline; if the arcane bloodline is
selected, the arcanist gains the hand of the apprentice
ability from the universal school instead (see the arcane
bond wizard class feature), using her Charisma modifier
in place of her Intelligence modifier.
Quote:

Sylvan

Your ties to nature have more to do with creatures than with capriciousness.
Associated Bloodline: Fey.
Bloodline Arcana: See bloodline powers.
Bloodline Powers: Your magic shows a kinship to that of the beast-talkers and shapechanger fey.
Animal Companion (Ex): You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.

I let a player in a home game take the sylvan sorcerer bloodline for the animal companion. Since you're always treated as a first level sorcerer for purposes of the exploit, I would rule that it doesn't level up without the expenditure of arcane reservoir. Is this a correct interpretation?


I've searched and searched, but can find nothing official or discussed about School Understanding. I've seen the question asked, but never answered.

Does School Understanding, allow an Arcanist, upon choosing a school. (Aside from Universalist) to use one extra spell slot per level, for the purposes of casting that school's area? (Taking Divination school would allow you to cast another True Strike, if you had it prepared, for example.)

If this feature is not considered an ability of the school (aside from the universalist school) Why is it necessary to include this line in School Understanding, if it too, were not an 'ability' of the School?

Quote:

but does not have to select any

opposition schools
Quote:

School Understanding: The arcanist can select one arcane

school from any of the schools available to arcane school
wizard class feature, but does not have to select any
opposition schools. The arcanist gains the abilities of
that arcane school as though she were a 1st-level wizard,
using her Charisma modifier in place of her Intelligence
modifier for these abilities. As a swift action, the arcanist
can expend one point from her arcane reservoir to bolster
her understanding, allowing her to treat here arcanist level
as her wizard level for these abilities for 1 minute for the
purposes of those arcane school abilities granted at 1st level.
(For example, a 7th-level arcanist with the enhancement
school normally gains an enhancement bonus of +2 from
the enchanting smile ability, but by expending one point
from her arcane reservoir, the enhancement bonus is
instead +3.) She does not gain any new abilities from this
use, such as those gained at 8th level.


TheInnsmouthLooker wrote:
Quote:

Bloodline Development: The arcanist can select one

bloodline from any of those available to bloodline
sorcerer class feature. The arcanist gains that bloodline’s
bloodline arcana and 1st-level bloodline power, as though
she were a 1st-level sorcerer. As a swift action, the arcanist
can expend one point from her arcane reservoir to bolster
her latent nature, allowing her to treat here arcanist level
as her sorcerer level for these abilities for 1 minute for the
purposes of the bloodline arcana and 1st-level bloodline
power. (For example, a 7th-level arcanist with the
destined bloodline normally can only bestow an insight
bonus of +1 from the touch of destiny bloodline power,
but by expending one point from her arcane reservoir,
the insight bonus is instead +3.) She does not gain any
new abilities from this use, such as those gained at 3rd
level. This exploit cannot be used to gain an arcane bond
through the arcane bloodline; if the arcane bloodline is
selected, the arcanist gains the hand of the apprentice
ability from the universal school instead (see the arcane
bond wizard class feature), using her Charisma modifier
in place of her Intelligence modifier.
Quote:

Sylvan

Your ties to nature have more to do with creatures than with capriciousness.
Associated Bloodline: Fey.
Bloodline Arcana: See bloodline powers.
Bloodline Powers: Your magic shows a kinship to that of the beast-talkers and shapechanger fey.
Animal Companion (Ex): You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.
I let a player in a home game take the sylvan sorcerer bloodline for the animal companion. Since you're always treated as a first level sorcerer for purposes of the exploit, I would rule that it doesn't level up without the expenditure of arcane reservoir. Is this a correct interpretation?

You may want to have them look at the Blood Arcanist.

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