Bag of Holding in a Bag of Holding

[Rocky Williams 530]

I know what happens when you mix a bag of hold, and a portable hole. But what happens if you put a bag in a bag. Or, a bag in a handy haversack (which functions like a bag)? I haven't found anything to say something bad happens. So, I'd think it just stores the bag. Now, it seems reasonable that you'd have to pull the second bag out to access anything in it but, am I missing anything that says this won't work?

[Archaeik]

Extradimensional Spaces

Extradimensional Spaces wrote:

A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.

I don't see anything that prohibits this

[jlighter]

As far as I know, one of two things would happen:

1) The inner bag would be rendered impotent, meaning that it would be just a bag that couldn't be accessed while inside the former bag,

2) The inner bag would be rendered inert, meaning all of its contents would spill out into the outer bag, and the inner bag would be just another piece of cargo in the outer bag.

I'm inclined toward the former, given the Rope Trick example they state.

[Brf]

I remember reading in the old D&D books that the inner bag would fill the outer bag, leaving only a thin layer between, that you might be able to fit a coin in.

[Velcro Zipper]

In earlier editions of D&D, placing a bag of holding into another BOH would net the same results as placing it into a portable hole. Both items were destroyed along with all they contained. That effect was removed so you follow the rules posted by Archaeik. The bag inside the bag just becomes inaccessible until it is removed. You can put 25 Type IV bags into a Type IV bag and then put that bag into a Handy Haversack and then hide in a Rope Trick, but you won't be able to access any of your bags or the haversack.

[Zhayne]

Thank you for reminding me of something I need to house rule.

[Arukoto]

If bag of holding in in rope trick.(or another bag of holding, or a handy haversack.)

- Would people inside the bag of holding be able to escape by normal means(cutting it open from inside)?
- Could you cut open the bag of holding to retrieve items you wanted even if not inside yourself?
Or would the bag of holding be emptied out from damaged when leaving such place...

[Brf]

The description for a Bag of Holding states that the bag is ruined and all contents lost forever if the bag is pierced.

[Bizbag]

jlighter wrote:

As far as I know, one of two things would happen:

1) The inner bag would be rendered impotent, meaning that it would be just a bag that couldn't be accessed while inside the former bag,

2) The inner bag would be rendered inert, meaning all of its contents would spill out into the outer bag, and the inner bag would be just another piece of cargo in the outer bag.

I'm inclined toward the former, given the Rope Trick example they state.

I prefer option 2, because option 1 still allows you to double-up on your storage space, even if you don't have immediate access to the gear.

[Drachasor]

The rules are pretty explicit. It's (1). A BOH in a BOH or Handy Haversack becomes inoperative until removed. It's contents become inaccessible -- they do not spill out.

[Kayerloth]

Okay here's another twist on the issue that only just occurred to me:

Your typical wizard and his companions enter the wizard's Magnificent Mansion ... they just cut themselves off from a lot of their own equipment.

And, oh boy, the various Create Demiplane spells all have the following wording (second bolded text mine):

Effect extradimensional demiplane, up to three 10-ft. cubes/level (S)

Not so sure about the first but pretty sure the second is not RAI.

[Drachasor]

An extra-dimensional demiplace is different from an extra-dimensional space.

As far as the mansion is concerned, they'd have to take a step outside to get at their stuff that's sealed up in bags of holding or the like.

[Kayerloth]

I agree that it shouldn't be effecting a permanent demiplane or other plane of existence. But this is a temporary spell effect creating a extradimensional "space" albeit one called a 'demiplane' vs one called a 'mansion'. Both are spaces in the usual English meaning of the word. But neither spell actually ever calls the effect a space so are you saying that makes neither spell subject to the Bag of Holding within a Bag of Holding situation? And what makes Rope Trick the exception (beside the fact that it calls the 'space' a space rather then a 'pocket').

Edit: And for extra clarity :p Technically the Bag of Holding opens into a "nondimensional" space.

[Stone Dog]

As a related question, what would the volume of a bag of holding be? Without worrying about if you can shove it into a Handy Haversack, could you roll it up and shove it in a normal pack?

[seebs]

Velcro Zipper wrote:

In earlier editions of D&D, placing a bag of holding into another BOH would net the same results as placing it into a portable hole.

In what earlier edition was this? I thought I'd seen all of them, and I don't remember ever seeing that rule.

BTW, cool trivia point: The "it effectively stops being a magic bag" behavior we get now is insanely useful for hiding things.

Take an object you wish to hide. Put a bag of holding inside another extradimensional space, whereupon it effectively turns into a normal bag. Put the object in it. Now take it out of the extradimensional space. Where's the object? In the bag. How do you get to it? ... You can't. You can't reach into the actual inside of the bag because of the extradimensional space.

[jlighter]

So interesting bit of data I stumbled across, apparently stacking bags of holding is intended to cause the same rift as putting it into a portable hole. Quote from The Great Beyond - A Guide to the Multiverse:

Quote:

While many spells or magic items can transport adventurers to other planes, not all methods do so without hazard, and not always as an intended function; some trips to other planes happen much by accident. Long a tool of tricky GMs and ingenious or unlucky players alike, stacking extradimensional spaces within one another like nested dolls – such as placing one bag of holding into another, or into a portable hole – causes a temporary rift or gate into the Astral Plane. Such rifts, although temporary, can suck characters through, stranding them in less than ideal conditions and circumstances on the other side, bereft of equipment, injured, or surrounded by potentially hostile natives.

[Maklak]

So let's go with "the inner bag becomes inert until retrieved". This allows stacking four type 4 bags within a type 1 or one type 4 inside a handy haversack to not have to worry about type 4 bags weighting 30 kg. If it even works this way, I'd limit it to 1 level of stacking.

I have another question. The rules say "If a bag of holding is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag immediately ruptures and is ruined, and all contents are lost forever." This makes me wary and worried about a few problems.

I can reasonably avoid it piercing from the inside by using sheaths, quivers and wrapping sharp items in leather. Not getting it pierced from the outside is trickier, but rules about destroying carried items seldom come into play, so the handy haversack will probably be OK longer than my character will live. Though I suppose some spiteful enemy loosing a fight could still target it specifically and I can't help it.

The problem with a possible bag of devouring can be tested on summoned monsters being told to put in and retrieve a rock from there. It may be fixable with spells like remove curse (forgot the exact rules) or maybe weaponised. Anyway, the risk is manageable.

What I most worry about is the weight limit. There is no easy way to tell how much exactly is in the bag, so the risk of accidentally overloading it and loosing everything seems very real. On the other hand "Classic Tresures Revisited" talks about submerging a bag of holding in water without it exploding, so I don't get how it is supposed to work. I toss in one coin too many and boom? I notice that I have a problem closing the bag and have to take something out? The rules don't say.

The problem is even worse with a handy hoversack which acts like 3 separate bags of holding. 40 kg for the main space at the back and 2 bags 5 kg each for fast retrieval of small items. Or something like that. If one of it's 3 bags gets pierced, are the others OK? If so, I need to keep a very detailed list where exactly is each of the items inside the magical backpack. Or assume the big items were in the main space and roll 50-50 for which of the small bags contained each small item.

How do I approach the weight limit on a bag of holding safely? Carry a scales with me, pack very carefully and leave a 10% weight buffer? How to use a bag of holding safely? Any hints on making extra-sure it won't get pierced? Loosing stuff including the spellbook because of a stupid mistake would really hurt.

Ugh, these damn things were supposed to make adventuring life easier and instead they create so many frustrating problems :/

[Scrogz]

We just simply say that when you reach the weight limit nothing else will fit into the bag. I'd say do not over-complicate the issue.