so the four rules in my new campaign i'm playing in are
1 tier 3 or lower
2 MCA's are allowed
3 no gunslingers.
4 races must be lower than 17 rp, tieflings and aasimar not allowed
I'm looking to make a character that would simply be fun to play/imagine, but won't be very powerful.
The reason?
regardless of DM, i generally don't see many challenging games in this system, this is due to my nature of optimization and my ability to figure out builds on my own that people don't always see coming.
So, wait, are you saying you need help building a weak character because you are just too good at building powerful ones?
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One thing you could consider is writing some sort of preoccupation into your character, and allotting some of your skills, traits, and equipment into fleshing out that aspect of your character. For example, you could be trying to write an epic story of your own accomplishments: you would need to buy materials to write with, as well the gear required to transport it safely, and then you would spend time actually writing down reports of each battle (or, even better, hire a scribe to follow you simply to record the results of the battle). You could put skill points into profession writer, and even into craft(book), so you can make copies of your books as you enter new towns. You can then take a few feats that enhance your craft/profession skill, or some to help you manage and keep your hireling safe. Heck, you can even spend some of your money on the hireling to keep him well equipped and comfortable.
By adding this as a part of your character, you are in essence having to optimize more than one thing, and by making one of those things purely fun, you will be "weaker" than if you were optimizing for purely mechanical benefit, and hopefully you can find a side-obsession that adds to the overall game experience.
Play a abjurer wizard with high charisma and lots of social feats.
Tons of fun, not very powerful, but tons of fun.
3PP allowed? Malefactor, Halfling. Pick up the Jinx feats.
Core/Hardbacks only? Half-elf Mystic Theurge (Sorcerer/Oracle).
3.5 allowed? Celestial (Empyreal) Sorcerer into Rainbow Servant.
hmmm... by 'tier 3 or lower' do you mean mythic tiers? by 'races must be lower than 17 rp' do you mean you can build your own race or that you can pick any published race that's 17rp or less, and if the later what sources can you choose from? what's your point buy?
So, wait, are you saying you need help building a weak character because you are just too good at building powerful ones?
not to sound cocky but yes? at least for the taste of some people i play with who consider optimisation evil....
Aim to have one level in EVERYTHING. That do?
Not themed correctly, I want him to be weak but not inviable
One thing you could consider is writing some sort of preoccupation into your character, and allotting some of your skills, traits, and equipment into fleshing out that aspect of your character. For example, you could be trying to write an epic story of your own accomplishments: you would need to buy materials to write with, as well the gear required to transport it safely, and then you would spend time actually writing down reports of each battle (or, even better, hire a scribe to follow you simply to record the results of the battle). You could put skill points into profession writer, and even into craft(book), so you can make copies of your books as you enter new towns. You can then take a few feats that enhance your craft/profession skill, or some to help you manage and keep your hireling safe. Heck, you can even spend some of your money on the hireling to keep him well equipped and comfortable.
By adding this as a part of your character, you are in essence having to optimize more than one thing, and by making one of those things purely fun, you will be "weaker" than if you were optimizing for purely mechanical benefit, and hopefully you can find a side-obsession that adds to the overall game experience.
That will be duly noted, good idea though for pouring feats into a hobby. it will really help
Play a monk or a rogue. Problem solved.
Well The last time I made a rogue... things happened... things that I can't ever talk about again...
Let's just say it was a monk/rogue
let's just say i was tripping everything and hitting it three times before it hit the ground and gaining sneak attack
Play a abjurer wizard with high charisma and lots of social feats.
Tons of fun, not very powerful, but tons of fun.
DM is trying no t1 or t2 classes
Mike, the high charisma, really-wants-to-be-a-sorcerer, barbarian.
OK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA!
Let's push forward on it3PP allowed? Malefactor, Halfling. Pick up the Jinx feats.
Core/Hardbacks only? Half-elf Mystic Theurge (Sorcerer/Oracle).
3.5 allowed? Celestial (Empyreal) Sorcerer into Rainbow Servant.
None of that is allowed :/
hmmm... by 'tier 3 or lower' do you mean mythic tiers? by 'races must be lower than 17 rp' do you mean you can build your own race or that you can pick any published race that's 17rp or less, and if the later what sources can you choose from? what's your point buy?
Only first party races with a total of 16 or less racial points, specifically to disallow fetchling...
This dm is carrying too much friggin baggage, but he's good at world crafting and storytelling.. he also never makes you feel remotely railroaded. we've just had a few games in a row where one to two players in the party have outgamed him and his encounter design needs some work
25 point buy
I've been out of the loop for a bit,the heck is mythic?
Basically we're talking about banning classes like wizard, oracle, sorcerer, druid, and the like.
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Build a ten point version of your normal super powerful characters and give all your gold to charity.
Better yet, use the original point assignment system, roll thee d6 six times and assign them in order.
Why not just play whatever you want and then punch below your weight class.
Kinda hard to give you advice, how am I supposed to know what you find "fun to play/imagine" ?
One thing a lot of people like to do is emulate a favorite character from TV, movies, books, or video games. Or pick a character portrait you think is really cool from a rulebook or deviantart and then build a character to emulate that.
Or just thumb through your books and find a weird archetype or racial trait that you think is cool but you've never seen a build for, and then make the build. Go out there and be the best Frog Domain druid you can be!
[edit: clearly you cannot actually be a Frog Domain druid, because Frog Domain is overpowered and therefore banned, but you get the gist of what I am saying?]
Play a halfling barbarian. When you get angry, bite their knees! Oh and dont forget the Childlike feat for more funny moments!
Look, its a halfling kid with an axe! Is it a toy, child? *kid goes berserk and cuts him in half (after biting him in the knee!)* ...Wha?!
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This is my current PFS character:
Lysander Spurius Dragomir
Paladin (Holy Tactician) 3+/ Bard 1+/ Ranger (Freebooter & Trapper)1
[+'s indicate progression beyond this level is fine]
Get Helpful and Magical Knack (Bard) as traits.
Race can be anything. Preferably with a bonus to charisma and dex. Dump Wisdom. Never put a rank in perception.
This gives you at level 5:
* The ability to give all allies within 30' a teamwork feat that you can change as a swift action. This aura lasts all day.
* Inspire Courage- +1 to atk & damage to all allies within sight/hearing
* Freebooter's Bane- Point at an enemy as a move action. All allies and you gain +1 untyped bonus to hit and damage that foe until it dies or you point at someone else. No daily limit.
*Trapfinding- enough said.
*Fantastic saving throws
*And much, much more!
I role play as a paladin of Shelyn who was born to a drug addict mother and as a result is medically dependent on a hallucinogen (think like LSD for fluff, but no mechanical effects). Have fun. This has led to numerous instances of absurdity, hilarity, and fun for the whole table. I picked up Lookout (say goodbye to almost any ambush surprise rounds a party member can act in) and Feint Partner (make the foe flat footed for a melee attack from every person in the party) as my teamwork feats. By relying on feint in combat without improved feint, you will be personally dealing or healing virtually zero damage in combat (but you can heal people in an emergency) while boosting the entire party almost constantly. On your own, you will be weak, but your party will love you anyway.
I would love to know how you did this.
I lost the file, i might rebuild it for fun though.
Central idea was scorpion whip on a half-orc rogue, I played around with a few ideas originally some became quite potent (Like making it rogue/magus with the arcane trickster prc, or going into barbarian, but i wound up sticking with monk/rogue)
but it revolves around better trips through monk, and sneak attack through rogue.
The feats (Names evade me)
took me hours to build really.
combat reflexes
Improved trip
making it so trips provoke two opportunity attacks
cleave
greater cleave
Surprise follow through
making it so trips allow a free drag maneuver
making it so drags provoke aoos
Scorpion whip, it had the monk weapon enchant or i took the weapon monk (it's been a good year or so)
can't remember if i took finess rogue and agile weapon quality.
basically it boils down to a con/dex/str build in which i just spun in circles, everyone was prone then i made Aoos against 1-5 targets and did sneak attack with it.
Worked fine.
Is it your character in particular, or is the whole party high-powered?
Because this
25 point buy
might be the problem. Voluntarily drop to a 20 or 15pt buy?
Is it your character in particular, or is the whole party high-powered?
Because this
might be the problem. Voluntarily drop to a 20 or 15pt buy?25 point buy
That struck me too. Kind of defeats the purpose of playing "lower-tier" classes if you compensate by giving them high ability scores. Especially at low levels, right?
That struck me too. Kind of defeats the purpose of playing "lower-tier" classes if you compensate by giving them high ability scores. Especially at low levels, right?Is it your character in particular, or is the whole party high-powered?
Because this
might be the problem. Voluntarily drop to a 20 or 15pt buy?25 point buy
*sigh* i understand this concept, my gm doesn't quite get it yet, he's a d100 gm and is adjusting slowly
Weak but fun? Isn't that the definition of a pathfinder rogue?
In the skull and shackles game I run we have a sword and board ranger, all dex no str, with the trapper and freebooter archetypes. Picked up some twf, it's not terribly powerful, it does a lot of aid other actions when she uses her move action to place freebooter's bane on enemies, but when she gets her full round we invented a word, "blendificate." It's not terribly powerful but it's fun.
It's really hard to give you advice since you didn't state what do you like, but if you like magic go for wizard and pick fun spells/schools of magic.
- You can be old diviner - mad mage that knows the future and loves fortelling from bones etc.
- You can be a mind controller (enchantment school) - if you are creative then you will be very powerful but it's so fun to play one regardless if he is weak or strong.
Not every wizard has to use a fireball.
Basically we're talking about banning classes like wizard, oracle, sorcerer, druid, and the like.
i've never heard of classes divided into 'tiers' like that... so is that the actual list of banned classes or are you just not allowed to play any full caster? i'd love to try to offer some specific advice but i'm still not really sure which classes you're allowed to play...
The cha-barbarian has a special place in my heart.
My first [PFS] character is/was an 8 cha barbarian heavily invested in social skills and knowledges.
It's not a bad way to go, honestly. You can invest in social skills, rogue skills, et cetera, by not dumping any stats.
Why not make an 18 or 20 con character, regardless of class. You'll be harder to kill, but the expensive stat comes at a cost to all the rest of your stats, especially since con isn't used for any skill. Not ideal, but can still be fun and underoptimized.
hmmm... so i did some poking around... i now understand, i think, these tiers you're talking about (though not at all why your GM would think it was necessary to ban classes of a certain tier).
Tier 1: Cleric, Druid, Witch, Wizard.
Tier 2: Oracle, Sorceror, Summoner.
Tier 3: Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Ninja, Magus, Rogue.
Tier 4: Barbarian, Cavalier, Paladin, Ranger, Samurai.
Tier 5: Fighter, Gunslinger, Monk.
so (assuming that list lines up with your campaign) here are a couple of ideas for fun but non-optimized builds-
1. Jack of All Trades- half-elf, bard/ranger. start with 14 in 5 stats and 13 in one (put that to 14 at 4th). take racial feats improvisation and imp. improv; spread other feats between ranged and melee combat, performance buffs (like lingering and extra), and general survivability things like dodge, toughness, and save boosters. be 2nd best in the party at everything (but never outshining the number 1 person).
2. Vicious Child- halfling, barbarian/martial artist. take the childlike and pass for human feats right away. dip monk early so you can walk around dressed like a normal child. take the beast totem rage powers, and animal fury. spread points pretty evenly between str/dex/con/wis. when not raging using unarmed strikes, when raging go to town with claws and bites. burn a trait and some skill points for disguise- everyone will think you're a human child and then be horrified when you grow claws/tusks and hurl yourself at enemies.
3. Water Bender- undine, unarmed fighter/qinggong master of many styles. take 1 monk level (to pick up elemental fist), then 1 level of fighter (for marid style), then monk the rest of the time. this is less 'unoptimized' and more like 'ineffective, so optimize away to make it work'. take the hydraulic maneuvers feat and pick up hydraulic push/torrent as qinggong powers. focus your stat points on dex/wis (with some Con) and pick up an agile AoMFs. invest some points in Cha if you're serious about not optimizing and pick up an eldritch heritage bloodline to supplement your bending (marid, for example).
4. Celestial Bounty Hunter- human inquisitor. this could work as a ranger (or even paladin) too. take the racial heritage feat for aasimar and load up on aasimar racial feats. (these classes are already kind of feat starved, so this should make for an interesting/memorable character but you'll really be missing those feats).
5. Mystic Theurge (lol)- bard 4/inquisitor (with fate inquisition) 1/mystic theurge. this is kind of silly, and certainly not optimal, but in a world with no full progression casters getting up to 6th level arcane and divine spells could actually be fairly useful (plus good Cha synergy)... /shrug
6. The Smith- dwarven fighter. build however you want (probably avoid 2hand if you want non-optimized) but invest feats in skill focus [craft:weapons and/or armor], master crafter, and craft magic arms and armor. (this will eat into your feats, force you to use up skill points on crafting, and prevent you from dumping int).
7. Zoo Keeper- human, any class. spend every feat (beside class bonuses) from 1-11 on: nature soul, skill focus[know{nature}], eldritch heritage [arcane], animal ally, boon companion, improved familiar, and evolved familiar (and maybe a 2nd boon companion too... that takes the chain to 13 though). there's a danger here that the build could end up too powerful for what you're trying to do... you basically have 0 feats but you get a full progression animal companion plus an evolved improved familiar.