2 spells per round?


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Had a discussion during a game where it was pointed out that if you have a quickened spell, you could use both it (as a swift action) and cast another (as a standard).

I could have sworn there was something about only ever casting one spell per round but I'm not sure.

Can someone point me in the right direction.


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The rules say you can only cast 1 swift action spell per round.

It's, however, perfectly within the rules to cast 1 swift action spell and 1 standard action spell during one round.


Yup. There's nothing in the rules about a 1 spell per round limit. The only limit is the amount of actions you have per round.

1 standard action
1 Move action
1 swift action /immediate action
unlimited free actions.

If you could find a spell that takes a move action to cast, then you could potentially cast 3 spells per round (with a quickened spell). But at the time of writing this, no spell has a casting time of a move action, so you are limited to 2 spells per round.
Saying this I realise that it is actually possible to break the cap of 2 spells per round if you use shenanigans such as contingency.


If you use materials from 3.5 there were some spells that were cast as move action.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Heck, Cold Ice Strike the 6th level wizard spell, is cast as a swift action per its descriptor.

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gourry187 wrote:

Had a discussion during a game where it was pointed out that if you have a quickened spell, you could use both it (as a swift action) and cast another (as a standard).

I could have sworn there was something about only ever casting one spell per round but I'm not sure.

Can someone point me in the right direction.

I'll do you one better:

Adventure with a Pathfinder Chronicler and get yourself an extra Standard Action, which can be used for another spell per round!


There are some fun supernatural abilities that can use move actions.

Standard - Spell
Move - Supernatural
Swift - Spell
Free - Gloat

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My Magus combines Intensified Shocking Grasp and Forceful Strike together during Spell Combat to great effect.


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PRD wrote:

Cast a Quickened Spell

You can cast a quickened spell (see the Quicken Spell feat), or any spell whose casting time is designated as a free or swift action, as a swift action. Only one such spell can be cast in any round, and such spells don't count toward your normal limit of one spell per round. Casting a spell as a swift action doesn't incur an attack of opportunity.

Emphasis is mine.

I remember there was a huge debate about this during the Mythic playtest. In does say in the CRB that only one spell can be cast per round, unless there is a swift/immediate/free action associated with the casting, at which time two spells can be cast in a round.

Never can three be cast in a round, regardless of whether one has more standard or movement actions left in the round. Mythic rules provide opportunities for additional actions in a round I believe (such as taking a full round action and still getting an additional standard action). A character able to do this, that has a quickened spell available, can still only cast two spells that round, not three. They'll have to use the standard action for other abilities or powers they might have to use.


The text doesn't have a hard limit on spells per round. The quoted text restates the norm for characters, which is that with only one standard action, you only get one spell. I've yet to see any text that outright says "you may only cast one spell and one quickened spell per round".

But!

SKR and the design team have gone on record multiple times stating the intent is to have that as a hard limit on spells per round. They never made it a written rule, but nearly every ability that grants an extra standard action prohibits it from being used for spell casting, and the others are likely to be errata'd when found. It would have been simpler if they had just said so in the first place under Magic, but at least RAI is clear.

Sometimes I think the design team gets game rules and design metarules mixed up and assume everyone knows the latter.


Sub-Creator wrote:
PRD wrote:

Cast a Quickened Spell

You can cast a quickened spell (see the Quicken Spell feat), or any spell whose casting time is designated as a free or swift action, as a swift action. Only one such spell can be cast in any round, and such spells don't count toward your normal limit of one spell per round. Casting a spell as a swift action doesn't incur an attack of opportunity.

Emphasis is mine.

I remember there was a huge debate about this during the Mythic playtest. In does say in the CRB that only one spell can be cast per round, unless there is a swift/immediate/free action associated with the casting, at which time two spells can be cast in a round.

Never can three be cast in a round, regardless of whether one has more standard or movement actions left in the round. Mythic rules provide opportunities for additional actions in a round I believe (such as taking a full round action and still getting an additional standard action). A character able to do this, that has a quickened spell available, can still only cast two spells that round, not three. They'll have to use the standard action for other abilities or powers they might have to use.

Never 3 seems unlikely to hold up ... either that or pray you have never used a Quickened Spell plus normal spell (standard action) and suddenly find yourself needing to cast, for example, Feather Fall. If this was a hard fast rule (only 2 max per round) it would hit homerules variation for me right about then.


Yup. As long as they haven't stated specifically that you have a HARD limit of 2 spells per round, I'm going to run it with spells per round being limited by amount of actions. Otherwise technically speaking it would prevent feather fall AND contingency in rounds where you use a quickened spell (and a normal spell).

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The Pathfinder Chronicler ability has no caveat that would limit one from casting with the extra standard action.


Sub-Creator wrote:
PRD wrote:

Cast a Quickened Spell

You can cast a quickened spell (see the Quicken Spell feat), or any spell whose casting time is designated as a free or swift action, as a swift action. Only one such spell can be cast in any round, and such spells don't count toward your normal limit of one spell per round. Casting a spell as a swift action doesn't incur an attack of opportunity.

Emphasis is mine.

I remember there was a huge debate about this during the Mythic playtest. In does say in the CRB that only one spell can be cast per round, unless there is a swift/immediate/free action associated with the casting, at which time two spells can be cast in a round.

Never can three be cast in a round, regardless of whether one has more standard or movement actions left in the round. Mythic rules provide opportunities for additional actions in a round I believe (such as taking a full round action and still getting an additional standard action). A character able to do this, that has a quickened spell available, can still only cast two spells that round, not three. They'll have to use the standard action for other abilities or powers they might have to use.

To be fair, if I remember the discussion correctly the Quickened feat description is the only place in the rules text where this is spelled out. It would be a good idea to include this in the Magic section if it is meant to be a universal rule.

Not disagreeing that what you say is RAW - just that it probably shouldn't be buried under a feat. :)


Feather Fall is an immediate action, so you could certainly cast it as a reaction to falling after your turn ends, such as if you were bull rushed off a cliff. If you somehow managed to cast two spells and then fall before your turn ended I guess that might present an odd situation. The only way I can imagine that happening is maybe if you cast a couple of spells and then moved over an undetected pit trap, failed the save, and began to fall in.

I'm not sure if the correct ruling would be:
A) Since your turn hasn't ended you fall to your doom (or maybe 5d6 damage). Be sure to save an actions for Feather Fall next time.
B) Falling into the pit effectively ends your Move action and therefore your turn, go ahead and cast Feather Fall, but you'll lose your swift action for next round (and therefore possibly your ability to cast 2 spells)

That said, I like the "1 spell per round" quasi-rule and would go with answer B for Feather Fall since it would likely produce fewer complaints. Feather Fall is kind of an odd spell and generates a lot of questions.


To be truly accurate the type of action used to cast a spell varies. Usually it's a standard action, sometimes it's a full round action, sometimes it's multiple full round actions. And there's the relatively rare swift and immediate action spells as well. And that's without considering the effects of Metamagic on casting times. I would think that using those various action types would be enough to resolve "how many" spells you can cast just as much as it resolves how many attacks you can make, how far you can run in a round or any other activity a character might engage in over the course of a turn.

@Lifat, note the casting time of Contigency is at minimum a 10 minute process ... triggering the effect of Contingency requires no action I believe despite the somewhat unclear wording here ->

Quote:
the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur
as that more or less contradicts the earlier part of the description
Quote:
The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time.

but clearly that's just my interpretation of RAI as the companion spell is triggered 'whenever' and often that occurs outside the casters turn and or under circumstances when the caster quite clearly can not cast spells (i.e they are dead, feebleminded, insane etc.).

Edit: to clean up the last sentence a bit.


@Kayerloth: I was not suggesting that you could cast the spell contingency during the battle. I was simply saying that you could have a round of:
1 standard action spell
1 swift action spell
1 contingency spell

Technically speaking you could then have 1 immediate action spell. Also if you could find a pathfinder spell costing a move action you could cast another spell.

This all assumes that there aren't any hard limit of how many spells you can cast. Personally speaking I'd never run with a hard limit on spells, but instead let spells be limited by amount of actions.

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Yup I've got a high level sorcerer that between a rod of lesser quicken and Cold Ice strike, can cast 2 spells per round for 6 consecutive rounds.


I believe we are in agreement, the actions used 'to cast' determine how many spells one can cast during your turn. And typically (or 'normally') that number is 1.

Now this isn't PF but in the Epic rules for 3.0/3.5 casting more than 2 spells in a round was definitely possible ... my own wizard did it often via the Multispell feat:

from d20srd wrote:


Multispell [Epic]
Prerequisites

Quicken Spell, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.
Benefit

You may cast one additional quickened spell in a round.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.


I am not sure, but I think the limit of one spell per round was a 3.x rule (probably 3.5) that may not have been in the SRD explicitly, but it's still pretty clearly intended. I think.


Devilkiller wrote:
Feather Fall is an immediate action, so you could certainly cast it as a reaction to falling after your turn ends, such as if you were bull rushed off a cliff. If you somehow managed to cast two spells and then fall before your turn ended I guess that might present an odd situation.

Since an immediate action counts as a swift action if you use it on your turn, it won't be possible to cast feather fall on your turn if you've already cast a quickened spell. After your turn, sure, but not during your turn. The current debate doesn't change this interaction.


Nefreet wrote:
My Magus combines Intensified Shocking Grasp and Forceful Strike together during Spell Combat to great effect.

Just a note:

It works only if you first hit with your first spell. If you cast forceful strike swift and you don't hit, you cannot spell combat SG and hold the charge of forceful strike. Forceful Strike is a touch spell, so it follows rules for holding the charge. And SG is a touch spell also, so I suppose you mean that your "combine" assume that you hit with both spells.

(It's just a clarification, maybe someone read this thread and think that those 2 spells get the ultimate combo :))


Xaratherus wrote:
Sub-Creator wrote:
PRD wrote:

Cast a Quickened Spell

You can cast a quickened spell (see the Quicken Spell feat), or any spell whose casting time is designated as a free or swift action, as a swift action. Only one such spell can be cast in any round, and such spells don't count toward your normal limit of one spell per round. Casting a spell as a swift action doesn't incur an attack of opportunity.

Emphasis is mine.

I remember there was a huge debate about this during the Mythic playtest. In does say in the CRB that only one spell can be cast per round, unless there is a swift/immediate/free action associated with the casting, at which time two spells can be cast in a round.

Never can three be cast in a round, regardless of whether one has more standard or movement actions left in the round. Mythic rules provide opportunities for additional actions in a round I believe (such as taking a full round action and still getting an additional standard action). A character able to do this, that has a quickened spell available, can still only cast two spells that round, not three. They'll have to use the standard action for other abilities or powers they might have to use.

To be fair, if I remember the discussion correctly the Quickened feat description is the only place in the rules text where this is spelled out. It would be a good idea to include this in the Magic section if it is meant to be a universal rule.

Not disagreeing that what you say is RAW - just that it probably shouldn't be buried under a feat. :)

What is strange is that not only does that only appear in the feat text. But it also isn't a rule about a limit to spells per round. The normal rules for actions is that you have a standard, and move, and a swift. And the normal rules for spells is that they are standard actions to cast. Some are longer, exceeding few in print are swift or immediate.

Since normal spells are normally standard actions, you can normally only cast 1 normal spell in a normal round.

That isn't a rule, but a description.

There is no rule that only one spell can be cast per round. It just happens to be generally true.

Otherwise Timestop would suck.


Devilkiller wrote:

Feather Fall is an immediate action, so you could certainly cast it as a reaction to falling after your turn ends, such as if you were bull rushed off a cliff. If you somehow managed to cast two spells and then fall before your turn ended I guess that might present an odd situation. The only way I can imagine that happening is maybe if you cast a couple of spells and then moved over an undetected pit trap, failed the save, and began to fall in.

I'm not sure if the correct ruling would be:
A) Since your turn hasn't ended you fall to your doom (or maybe 5d6 damage). Be sure to save an actions for Feather Fall next time.
B) Falling into the pit effectively ends your Move action and therefore your turn, go ahead and cast Feather Fall, but you'll lose your swift action for next round (and therefore possibly your ability to cast 2 spells)

That said, I like the "1 spell per round" quasi-rule and would go with answer B for Feather Fall since it would likely produce fewer complaints. Feather Fall is kind of an odd spell and generates a lot of questions.

No. The limitation is on a round basis, not on a turn basis.

Thus if you cast a standard action spell, you can no longer cast any swift action spells (unless they are quickened with the quicken metamagic feat) like cold ice strike. Nor can you use immediate action spells like featherfall, till your next turn.


Rikkan wrote:
Devilkiller wrote:

Feather Fall is an immediate action, so you could certainly cast it as a reaction to falling after your turn ends, such as if you were bull rushed off a cliff. If you somehow managed to cast two spells and then fall before your turn ended I guess that might present an odd situation. The only way I can imagine that happening is maybe if you cast a couple of spells and then moved over an undetected pit trap, failed the save, and began to fall in.

I'm not sure if the correct ruling would be:
A) Since your turn hasn't ended you fall to your doom (or maybe 5d6 damage). Be sure to save an actions for Feather Fall next time.
B) Falling into the pit effectively ends your Move action and therefore your turn, go ahead and cast Feather Fall, but you'll lose your swift action for next round (and therefore possibly your ability to cast 2 spells)

That said, I like the "1 spell per round" quasi-rule and would go with answer B for Feather Fall since it would likely produce fewer complaints. Feather Fall is kind of an odd spell and generates a lot of questions.

No. The limitation is on a round basis, not on a turn basis.

Thus if you cast a standard action spell, you can no longer cast any swift action spells (unless they are quickened with the quicken metamagic feat) like cold ice strike. Nor can you use immediate action spells like featherfall, till your next turn.

Please link or quote this rule? It isn't in my books.


Sorry about that, I checked again and I was wrong about the swift action part.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html
In the "Casting Time" section:
"A spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn't count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round."

1 spell per round, so no immediate action spells if you cast a spell on your turn.


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The word people keep ignoring is:

Normal.

"your normal limit"

Getting a way to use extra swift actions isn't normal. getting extra standard or full round actions isn't normal either. Normal limit is because normal rounds have only enough actions to can a normal spell.


The problem with arguing "no immediate spell for the rest of the round" is that it makes a very arbitrary adjudication on what the abstraction of a "round" is anyway.

Essentially, it's saying that "from the end of your turn(in which you cast a swift spell and another spell) until this imaginary counter reaches zero, your immediate actions(or that is to say reactive actions) are restricted; but oh! as soon as that counter resets, until it happens to be "your turn" again, those actions are not restricted".

This is not the level of bookkeeping that the concept behind immediate actions is intended to generate. One "round" should be considered synonymous with "your turn".

Re: the description of quickened spells under the combat section
If this were an actual rule, it should be corroborated by the Quicken Spell feat. But there is no "Normal: " section of that feat.

Re: Time Stop

Quote:
You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time.

Again, this is a description, but if there is indeed a restriction on spells per round, does this text lift it? (or would it have to do so explicitly)


Archaeik wrote:
One "round" should be considered synonymous with "your turn".

No. A round is a defined term in the CRB, in the common terms section:

"Round: Combat is measured in rounds. During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act, in order of initiative. A round represents 6 seconds in the game world."


A ranger (of all classes!) with the Guide archetype can potentially cast 3 spell in one turn under his own power, since he has a power that grants him an extra swift action.

And as has been mentioned, anyone can pull off extra actions teamed up with a friendly Pathfinder Chronicler or Bard (Heroic Finale).


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Rikkan wrote:
Archaeik wrote:
One "round" should be considered synonymous with "your turn".

No. A round is a defined term in the CRB, in the common terms section:

"Round: Combat is measured in rounds. During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act, in order of initiative. A round represents 6 seconds in the game world."

And the whole of the actions that you take as your turn are considered to use the entire 6 seconds.

There is no discrepancy in allowing an immediate action spell after the end of your turn, regardless of the actual (and arbitrary) initiative count. I stand by what I said.


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No the round is everyone's turn, not just yours.
"During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act"
So you can't cast an immediate action spell, till all creatures had a turn to act.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Blackstorm wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
My Magus combines Intensified Shocking Grasp and Forceful Strike together during Spell Combat to great effect.

Just a note:

It works only if you first hit with your first spell. If you cast forceful strike swift and you don't hit, you cannot spell combat SG and hold the charge of forceful strike. Forceful Strike is a touch spell, so it follows rules for holding the charge. And SG is a touch spell also, so I suppose you mean that your "combine" assume that you hit with both spells.

You may only cast Forceful Strike after you've hit with a melee attack, and it's a swift action to cast, so the order would be:

Declare Spell Combat
Cast Shocking Grasp (Spellstriking, of course)
Roll your 3 attack rolls (since your BAB is at least +7)
Hopefully hit at least once, and deliver your Shocking Grasp
Cast Forceful Strike (Spellstriking, of course)

Although, personally, I usually just cast Forceful Strike without Spellstriking so I don't have to worry about holding the charge, but even if I held it, I'd just declare another Spell Combat the next turn and hopefully deliver the Forceful Strike and cast my next spell at the end.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Forceful Strike is one of those weird spells. You can choose to use it as a touch spell (requiring an attack roll), which most Magi probably do, since they can Spellstrike, or you can simply cast it (no attack roll) after striking with a melee weapon, which most non-Magi probably do.

I simply prefer the latter. I'll forgo the extra weapon damage I'd be getting with Spellstrike for the opportunity to not require an attack roll.


Rikkan wrote:

No the round is everyone's turn, not just yours.

"During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act"
So you can't cast an immediate action spell, till all creatures had a turn to act.

The rules needs to be read and understood as a whole, not piecemeal.

PRD on Immediate Actions wrote:


Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

Emphasis mine. This shows that your immediate actions reset when your turn ends, not when the round ends.


bbangerter wrote:
Emphasis mine. This shows that your immediate actions reset when your turn ends, not when the round ends.

Yes, you can use an immediate action after your turn ends, but you can't cast a spell with that immediate action, since the 1 spell per round did not reset.

That is why you need to read all the rules and see how they interact. Not just the individual parts.


@Rikken, can you please clarify your stance for me.

If I have a spell that takes a standard action and a quickened spell, can I cast both of those spells on my turn? Yes or no.


He is saying you can use the standard action and the immediate or swift action to cast another spell, but once you do so you may not use another swift/immediate action until your turn comes up again. The time it takes for your turn to come up again is one round.


Immediate actions do seem to muddy the waters a bit. I think that they're a special situation if they're cast when it isn't your turn since you're effectively using an action from your next turn, which might be part of the next round. Would it be fair to say that means you count as casting the spell the next round? I think so.

It strikes me that most immediate action spells are cast in response to something. The rules for borrowing an action from next round seem nice since that way you don't have to "save" your action in case something happens. The exception is if the thing you want to react to happens during your turn after you've already used your swift action. I wonder if there are any rules on how and when you can end your turn. For instance, if you fell into a pot could you choose to end your turn right then so you could use Feather Fall.

@Are - I didn’t try to say that you’d be able to cast Feather Fall before your turn ended. I just wondered if falling into a pit ends your move action and therefore your turn (thus allowing you to use an immediate action)

Grand Lodge

Also another way to get more in is with words of power. You can build spells with 2 effect so in a way mixing 2 spells.

9th level effect you can get one 7/5/5 effect and a quicken one what can do 2/2/2 for the cost of 2 9th level spells you have in effect cast 6 spells in the round that are levels 7/5/5/2/2/2. While this may not be the most effective casting methed can can realy have some intresting effect.

Quote:

Effect Word: Effect words determine what effect a wordspell has when cast. They also determine the schools of the wordspell and its duration, saving throw, and spell resistance, if any. A wordspell can have more than one effect word, even ones from different schools of magic. In this case, the spell counts as both schools of magic. The maximum level of the effect words contained within a wordspell depends on the level of the spell slot used and the number of words arranged in the wordspell, as noted on Table: Effect Word Combinations. For example, a 5th-level wordspell might include one 5th-level effect word, two 3rd-level effect words, or three 2nd-level effect words. Alternatively, the wordspell might include one 4th-level effect word and one 2nd-level effect word, or one 3rd level effect word and two 1st-level effect words.

Effect words are split into groups of similar words. A wordspell typically cannot have more than one effect word from the same group, but there are exceptions. A wordspell can have more than one effect word from the Detection group, but cannot have a wordspell with an effect word from the Detection group and an effect word from any other group.

words of power from ultimit magic D20pfsrd


Devilkiller wrote:
Immediate actions do seem to muddy the waters a bit. I think that they're a special situation if they're cast when it isn't your turn since you're effectively using an action from your next turn, which might be part of the next round. Would it be fair to say that means you count as casting the spell the next round? I think so.

Not really.

PRD wrote:

Immediate Actions

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

You don't lose anything for casting an immediate spell instead of a swift one on your turn, nor can you cast an extra spell on your turn by borrowing the next turn's swift action.

What you can do, however, is wait for your turn to end, then immediately cast an immediate action spell before anyone else goes. At that point, your turn is already over (i.e. you can't do it then take other actions), and you're giving up your next turn's swift action, (as well as any other immediate actions you could have taken) but you're almost casting an extra spell during your turn.


Kayerloth wrote:
Never 3 seems unlikely to hold up ... either that or pray you have never used a Quickened Spell plus normal spell (standard action) and suddenly find yourself needing to cast, for example, Feather Fall. If this was a hard fast rule (only 2 max per round) it would hit homerules variation for me right about then.

You can indeed cast a standard action spell and a swift, and then follow it up with an immediate action spell such as feather fall after your turn is complete. You would then not be able to use a swift or immediate action on your next turn (you could use an immediate action directly following your next turn, however, with the same caveats.

PRD > Core Rulebook > Combat > Immediate Actions wrote:
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.


Thanis Kartaleon wrote:
Kayerloth wrote:
Never 3 seems unlikely to hold up ... either that or pray you have never used a Quickened Spell plus normal spell (standard action) and suddenly find yourself needing to cast, for example, Feather Fall. If this was a hard fast rule (only 2 max per round) it would hit homerules variation for me right about then.

You can indeed cast a standard action spell and a swift, and then follow it up with an immediate action spell such as feather fall after your turn is complete. You would then not be able to use a swift or immediate action on your next turn (you could use an immediate action directly following your next turn, however, with the same caveats.

PRD > Core Rulebook > Combat > Immediate Actions wrote:
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

Yes I followed all that about actions (though I did initially forget about the rule Immediate = Swift for turn)). But as I also said I'd have no problem overruling it to allow a character to use an Immediate action to cast Feather Fall when they've already used a Swift and Standard. Perhaps more accurately I'd let them cast Feather Fall and not even worry about what sort of action it was other than "Grandfather clause: Really Speedy Action meant for using Feather Fall". Then again it's fairly unlikely the situation would come up ... characters of a level capable of such feats tend to already be using some means to Fly (Overland Flight in particular) or could simply handle the issue in some other way (Slow Fall, high Acrobatics etc.). I also tend to have alarm bells go off and red flags run up anytime I see the words never or always in a game where physics and reality bending magic is the norm.


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You folks are missing one. The Mystic Thuerge's capstone ability.

"Spell Synthesis (Su)
At 10th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from each of his spellcasting classes, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time."

With this, a Theurge could cast two standard action spells and a Quickened spell. Combine it with the Pathfinder Chronicler boost and you could have a potential of four spells in one round, plus any extras from Contingency or Feather Fall. :)


Joex The Pale wrote:

You folks are missing one. The Mystic Thuerge's capstone ability.

"Spell Synthesis (Su)
At 10th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from each of his spellcasting classes, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time."

With this, a Theurge could cast two standard action spells and a Quickened spell. Combine it with the Pathfinder Chronicler boost and you could have a potential of four spells in one round, plus any extras from Contingency or Feather Fall. :)

Actually - and I doubt that this was RAI, but does appear to be possible RAI - you could cast 5.

Spell Synthesis says that you can cast two spells using one action.

It doesn't say standard, just action.

So since the feat is already granting an exception to the "two spells per round" rule, you could arguably cast two Quickened spells using one swift action, two spells using one standard action, and a fifth spell from Chronicler.

It might make it worthwhile to go all the way to the end of MT if it were intended to function like that, actually. :P

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Xaratherus wrote:
So since the feat is already granting an exception to the "two spells per round" rule, you could arguably cast two Quickened spells using one swift action, two spells using one standard action, and a fifth spell from Chronicler.

A 5th and a 6th right? No reason not to cast two more with the extra standard action.


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Xaratherus wrote:


Actually - and I doubt that this was RAI, but does appear to be possible RAI - you could cast 5.

Spell Synthesis says that you can cast two spells using one action.

It doesn't say standard, just action.

So since the feat is already granting an exception to the "two spells per round" rule, you could arguably cast two Quickened spells using one swift action, two spells using one standard action, and a fifth spell from Chronicler.

Not really, spell synthesis is only usable once per day.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Corlindale wrote:

A ranger (of all classes!) with the Guide archetype can potentially cast 3 spell in one turn under his own power, since he has a power that grants him an extra swift action.

And as has been mentioned, anyone can pull off extra actions teamed up with a friendly Pathfinder Chronicler or Bard (Heroic Finale).

A friendly Pathfinder Chronicler allow you to take a standard action as an immediate action. That eat your swift action for the next round, so you are still limited to 2 spells, one outside your round, one during your round.

Heroic finale work.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Diego Rossi wrote:
Corlindale wrote:

A ranger (of all classes!) with the Guide archetype can potentially cast 3 spell in one turn under his own power, since he has a power that grants him an extra swift action.

And as has been mentioned, anyone can pull off extra actions teamed up with a friendly Pathfinder Chronicler or Bard (Heroic Finale).

A friendly Pathfinder Chronicler allow you to take a standard action as an immediate action. That eat your swift action for the next round, so you are still limited to 2 spells, one outside your round, one during your round.

Sorry, this isn't right. The Chronicler allows you to "immediately take an extra move (or standard) action." It doesn't read that this is an "immediate action."

It further states "This does not count against the ally's number of actions on his own turn." Whichever definitely tells me it's not an "immediate action."

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My bad. You are right.

That mean that a 7th level bard, 9th level Pathfinder Chronicler can spend a move action to give an ally a standard action.
And then cast Heroic Finale (from a wand or scroll) to give him another standard action.

A level 10 bard/9th Pathfinder Chronicler could do that without using devices to cast the spell.

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