Quick playtest with friends

[ArenCordial]

So a group of buddies and I got together to run through some encounters and get a feel for some of the new classes. We had a Warpriest, Swashbuckler, Bloodrager, Investigator, and me on a Slayer. For simplicity's sake we all chose human for race.

Slayer Playtest Report-I'm not going to comment much on the other classes but I will pass on what I remember from my friends impressions. We played levels 9-11 with some speedy leveling up thanks to the DM just handing out XP.

My Slayer - Considering most of the guys in the Slayer Discussion are working up TWF builds I decided to go a little different and picked a greatsword wielding character. The concept I was going for with this character is he's a martially trained monster slayer after his family was killed in a raid by various monstrous humanoids. I ended up making liberal use of both Power Attack and Combat Expertise to address when I needed more defense or power.

Impressions

What I liked:
1. The concept of the Slayer.
To me the slayer is an attempt to fill the archetype of professional monster hunter, warrior assassin, and bounty hunter. That's great and this is a niche I'd like to see filled well by the Slayer.

2. Favored Target.
FT is awesome....after 10. When I was level 9 the move action cost was kind of unwieldy and either I tried to scout prior to a fight or I was left charging a lot which didn't do my AC any favors. After 10 though Favored Target really comes into its own and is very satisfying, prior to 10 its ok. I couldn't help but think Slayer's Advance would be better if it just allowed you to move your speed and it would come earlier and more often with a limited # of times per day to help this problem.

3. Tracking and Skill.
Tracking fits the theme beautifully. I liked that against my FT my skills worked like a charm. However playing with an Investigator I felt for a large part that some of my skills were just redundant on skill challenges.

What I disliked:

1. That it plays like a Rogue.
Perhaps this is because I wanted to be more warrior than lurker but I was disappointed I had to approach encounters like a rogue. I was very dependent on my party to be able to set to deal good damage. It felt less like a specific target hunter and more of an opportunist with a good attack bonus. To me this almost seemed counter to what I perceived the Slayer to be in concept. The monster hunter, warrior assassin, and bounty hunter are all very much lone wolf archetypes and the Slayer is anything but that. For the most part I was outshone by the Bloodrager (who was having a great night with rolls and could buff himself to lessen his weaknesses) and the Swashbuckler (who seemed to have a lot more options in combat) in combat.

2. Slayer Talents
For the most part these were underwhelming for my build. The Slayer really needs some of its own if its going to grow into something that warrants choosing it over other classes.

Other Thoughts

Limited Build Options
For how the Slayer currently stands building around TWF/Feinting really seems to be the way to go thanks to FT and SA. I have a personal pet peeve when a class have limited build options to be really competitive. I don't know if this was the designers intent but it seems to me its going to be reality. My own attempt to prove a two-handed slayer could work was mixed. I felt I could deal good damage and compete with the Bloodrager and Swashbuckler when I got my SA setup but overall those two classes were more solid builds that required significantly less work to function well.

Would I play it over its alternate classes?
Honestly I still think Ranger is the way to go for the build I was trying to play. Nothing the Slayer gains really convinced it was getting a better a deal over the Ranger. Some Ranger archetypes I think do a better job than Slayer. Its not a bad class but frankly I didn't really like it because of the playstyle not meshing up what I interpreted the class to be and the talents/mechanics just weren't that impressive. Overall its great concept but needs some work imo.

The Other Classes - Player comments that I can recall.

Bloodrager-The player was having a good night with the rolls and he was crushing things with glee. His opinion was he'd be willing to play it more. He mentioned being a little disappointed of no Stormborn bloodline in the playtest so he could "Thor." Overall he really liked it.

Swashbuckler-The player had some Panache issues and mentioned he would like to see the Panache points be increased a little. Other than that he said Swashbuckler was fun. A little confusion with Precise Strike reading in general. We also noted it says can't use a shield but shouldn't a buckler not count considering Swashbuckler. Maybe I didn't understand that correctly.

Investigator-Big Hit here. As far as the player was concerned Investigator ate the Rogue whole and then pilfered from the Alchemist. Overall everyone agreed good job Paizo.

Warpriest-The player basically said while he didn't find the Warpriest a poor option he's not sure that he'd be drawn to the class over the Cleric or Inquisitor but it seemed a nice alternative. He mentioned wishing for a feat / class ability for a quick blessing on a limited basis.

[Insain Dragoon]

Nice feedback.

When I compared the classes Slayer and Ranger I was worried that the Sneak Attack wouldn't be such a benefit that it could replace Ranger spellcasting and companions. It's a shame to see this be the case.

Do you have any ideas for specific changes or additions you'd want to see aside from those already listed in your post?

[ArenCordial]

While I was a bit disappointed with this first outing, I firmly believe that the Slayer is a good concept and easily could become a strong competitive class.

It seems the designers are debating several good ideas like adding Combat Styles (its very feat starved) although rather than a talent cost I think just adding them as a separate class feature would be fine.

To me I felt the Slayer really needed 3 things to work well.
1.) Unique Slayer talents to address shortcomings and genuinely strengthen the class, not just throwing more Rogue talents or Ranger features in as Slayer talents.
2.) A way to reliably apply Sneak Attack without having to rely on the usual suspects of other player actions, flanking, feinting, etc. Even if it costs a Sneak Attack die the class needs it imo both mechanically and thematically. Hunter's Surprise just isn't the enough.
3.) A way mitigate the move action cost of Favored Target under 10. The Slayer's Advance idea I posted about I think is fair. Limited but very useful, but I'm sure there's other ideas that could work well also.

Frankly doing #1 right could address all these problems easily.

[Cheapy]

Interesting feedback, ArenCordial.

What do you think about using a ranged weapon and Quick Draw at earlier levels, so you can contribute a bit when you use Favored Target? I dont personally feel that the move action is too steep. You get solid benefits from it, and you aren't missing much if you charge in, and on the next turn use Favored Target.

Possibly even use it with Opening Volley? Hm.

I do agree that sneak attack sort of clashes with the lone wolf idea that the whole class exudes.

[ArenCordial]

Its an interesting idea Cheapy. Quick Draw is probably going to be popular for Slayers. I'm not sure that I'd personally be for Opening Volley because I don't think hitting is the Slayer's problem. Granted OV gives you one heck of a bonus. Its a pretty accurate class that only get more accurate as you gain level. Course if your DM is for retraining then it's a whole lot more interesting.

Frankly I don't think the move action is THAT bad either, because its obvious they don't want people dipping in for a level of Slayer so it was definitely done with good purpose for low levels.

I do think having a way to reduce its impact would be helpful until Slayer's hit 10, especially in close encounters.