ACG Archetype Requests


Advanced Class Guide Playtest General Discussion

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We know that the ACG is going to have archetypes for each of the new classes. List some suggestions you have for archetypes so Paizo knows what the people want!

Arcanist 1) a metamagic specialist, 2) a tinkerer

Bloodrager 1) a dedicated debuffer, 2) a shapeshifter that focuses on polymorphing to augment combat capabilities, 3) maybe a version that skews more toward sorcerer than barbarian and can use actual sorcerer bloodlines, so that some of the more martial and obscure bloodlines (Orc, I'm looking at you) can have their day in the sun

Shaman 1) a build focused much more heavily on augmenting and improving the familiar, maybe with early access to improved familiars or an alternate list of improved familiar options (I'd love to see a similar option for the witch for that matter), 2) a more druidy shaman with a few unique nature spirits and access to the druid spell list (or at least witch) instead of cleric, 3) for that matter, a creepier or more witch-doctor-like shaman

Skald 1) a debuffer, maybe who inspires rage in enemies instead of allies, maybe as some sort of modified Antagonize/tanking plan

Slayer 1) a sniper/gun-oriented slayer

Swashbuckler 1) obviously a gun swashbuckler (which they've already said is happening), 2) a more rogue-like/skillful swashbuckler

Warpriest 1) a debuffer (I know, I know, I like cursing, hexing, and debuffing way too much)

Dark Archive

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Infiltrator1) a disguise and bluff guy, sub out poison?
2) a type with a pistol. Hard-boiled detective, trenchcoat and fedora.

Swashbuckler1) a proper pirate
2) a chandelier swinger
3) rapier and pistol gentleman/highwayman

Slayer 1) Two-weapon killer ( never great for Rangers, fits Slayer more. Plus it should be a good way for Red Mntis Assassin)

Shadow Lodge

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Investigator:
1. Gun archetype. Detective yes please!

Swashbuckler:
1. 'Nother Gun archetype. Yes, I know one is coming. I can't wait for it! Sword/pistol dual-wield specialist desperately wanted.
2. Perhaps a ranged weapon version of this class - Gunslinger mechanics are neat, but what if I wanted some of those cool grit/panache/deed tricks with my crossbow, or my bow and arrow?

Shaman:
1. Something that's more like a witch! As it stands, the Shaman is an Oracle archetype that has Oracle powers called "hexes" - not a Witch/Oracle hybrid as it claims. It doesn't look like a witch, it doesn't cast like a witch, and it doesn't hex like a witch. (It's awesome, but a witch hybrid it ain't.) Obviously the name of this archetype will be Witch Doctor.

Arcanist:
1. Something with more class features than just more spells. I'd love to get some improved Bloodline powers going, maybe even an archetype that enabled Bloodline Arcanas from the various Bloodlines.


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What is this "Infiltrator"? The playtest has an Investigator but no Infiltrator.

Dark Archive

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I assume they mean investigator, but infiltrator sounds like a great archetype for the slayer!

Scarab Sages

A Swashbuckler archetype, named something like "Warrior-Scholar", "Calculating Fencer", "Learned Duelist" or something, that uses Int to determine Panache Pool rather than Charisma. Maybe swaps out a couple of the class skills for Knowledge skills, in order to emulate the refined-and-disiplined upper-class fencer/duelist sort of character.


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Swashbuckler archetypes:
Peltast.
Uses thrown weapons instead of one-handed piercing. Switches out parry/riposte for... something that makes thrown weapons viable.


Face_P0lluti0n wrote:
A Swashbuckler archetype, named something like "Warrior-Scholar", "Calculating Fencer", "Learned Duelist" or something, that uses Int to determine Panache Pool rather than Charisma. Maybe swaps out a couple of the class skills for Knowledge skills, in order to emulate the refined-and-disiplined upper-class fencer/duelist sort of character.

Seems like you only need a Lore Warden

Scarab Sages

lichzeta wrote:
Face_P0lluti0n wrote:
A Swashbuckler archetype, named something like "Warrior-Scholar", "Calculating Fencer", "Learned Duelist" or something, that uses Int to determine Panache Pool rather than Charisma. Maybe swaps out a couple of the class skills for Knowledge skills, in order to emulate the refined-and-disiplined upper-class fencer/duelist sort of character.
Seems like you only need a Lore Warden

Having an Int-based archetype for the Swashbuckler would still fill a rules need, though, as well as appear in a "Core"/setting-neutral product line.


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Have they said whether or not they'd ever reprint world guide/adventure path mechanics in core books?

Because I was thinking that something like the Advanced Class Guide would be the ideal place to take successful archetypes, such as the Lore Warden, from setting guides and put them in one easy to find place. Kind of like how that was one of the main purposes of 3.5's Complete books back in the day.

Grand Lodge

I think "successful" as a term for the Lore Warden is subjective. It has been commented that perhaps the Lore Warden is TOO good, and therefore, I would not consider it an absolute success.

Scarab Sages

Aeshuura wrote:
I think "successful" as a term for the Lore Warden is subjective. It has been commented that perhaps the Lore Warden is TOO good, and therefore, I would not consider it an absolute success.

I think I missed this part. I tried to break Lore Warden but maybe I gave up too early. Are there any threads or build guides where this was discussed?


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My only request is a way to take away the Shaman's and Hunter's pet.

I hate that pets were mandatory for Witch and Cavalier and would like the option to play without another sheet of stats.


A mixed martial artist for the Brawler. Pseudo master of many styles.


I dont know if this has been pondered, but I would be interested in seeing a, Investigator archetype that specializes in non-lethal weapons (like saps & unarmed strikes). Basically, like what an actual cop should be like.

It's been mentioned, but an int-based swashbuckler (with canny defense) would be cool.

I quite like the bloodrager, and more bloodlines would always be cool for them. Also, an "urban barbarian" type archetype for the bloodrager (I like dex-builds).

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Shaman: Maybe this is far out, but one where the spirit is a ghostly (incorporeal) familiar or companion.

Swashbuckler: Something that allows small characters to be just as effective as larger ones, maybe swapping out the parry abilities (which take a size penalty) for more avoidance and dodging powers.


Oh, another one: some kind of bloodrager archetype built around the "form of.." spells. So basically an elemental bloodrager that can turn into it's respective elemental, a draconic bloodline one that turns into a dragon. Maybe in exchange for the higher level rage abilities?


For Brawler, one that helps if you are small race, like a way to avoid the size cmb and cmd penalties,


Hunter - Spell-less Hunter with better animal

Investigator - Artificer/Engineer

Warpriest - Invisibility cloak

Brawler Super-armored/armor-bonded/gauntlet smasher

Swashbuckler More weapon and technique specialists to dilute the swash and buckly flavour


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Brawler - bodyguard/enforcer; improvised brawler


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Hunter - Skinchanger: Replace Animal Focus with limited Wildshape.

Shadow Lodge

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Magus: any archtype that gives it the same spell casting ability of the arcanist. A magus with that ability would be amazing and fit my idea of what a magus should be capable of.

Liberty's Edge

Assuming existing archetypes are possible under the hybrids, anyone see a problem drawing from either or both of the base classes?

An initial thought on some of the hybrids is that they would be better if an archetype were already applied. I think that the ACG should be accessible to people who only own the CRB, so I would look to limit this to Advanced or Ultimate classes.


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I think a Skald with some kind of necromantic portfolio would be pretty cool. He could buff allies with rage powers akin to undead anatomy and, at high levels, animate and enrage his own undead minions.


An archetype for Bloodrager where you eventually become a creature (Including Creature Type) of your heritage would be nice. Please?


Keep in mind that the longer an archetype is, the less space there is for other archetypes for that class. That's a pretty cool idea The NPC, but might end up taking too much space to really be feasible.


Cheapy wrote:
Keep in mind that the longer an archetype is, the less space there is for other archetypes for that class. That's a pretty cool idea The NPC, but might end up taking too much space to really be feasible.

Sadly this is true, but it remains my wishful thinking.


I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Warpriest archetypes for knightly/religious orders. It might be better to have a sourcebook for religious orders with archetypes for warpriest, cleric, paladin, druid, shaman, oracle, inquisitor, and ranger (I'd like to see both archetypes and religious orders, and the page count for that would take away from other cool archetypes in the final ACG).

Scarab Sages

Benn Roe wrote:
Shaman 1) a build focused much more heavily on augmenting and improving the familiar, maybe with early access to improved familiars or an alternate list of improved familiar options (I'd love to see a similar option for the witch for that matter)

Defiantly. After all if you go with the Stone Spirit your familiar gains DR5/Adamantine at first level.

Quote:
3) for that matter, a creepier or more witch-doctor-like shaman

So Juju Mystery but not as watered down as it was in Faith & Philosophies from its original counterpart or like the Orc version?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Hard Boiled: a tough investigator that gains a knockout greater rogue talent, a bonus to hit points and fortitude saves, and can use firearms, but loses the alchemy ability of elixers.

Panopticon: an investigator that uses divination magic to solve cases. They would gain access to additional divination spells as extracts but would probably lose a few sneak attack dice.

Gadfly: a small swashbuckler that gets access to close fighting abilities that allow it to literally walk all over larger foe, pocking it apart.


A couple of up-votes..

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Investigator - Artificer/Engineer

Definitely that - dump the extracts, add in trap and tinkering mechanics, maybe slow rogue talents (like quick trapsmith), and/or ranger traps. The Kobold bloodline has an interesting supernaturalish trap construct.

Feros wrote:
Hunter - Skinchanger: Replace Animal Focus with limited Wildshape.

Yep yep - i'm not a pet fan, but love me some wildshape.


the Queen's Raven wrote:
Magus: any archtype that gives it the same spell casting ability of the arcanist. A magus with that ability would be amazing and fit my idea of what a magus should be capable of.

Yes, definitely. I'd like to see one for the Witch which gives it the spell casting ability of the arcanist (or sorcerer), or, alternately, an arcanist archetype that uses the Witch spell list.

Brawler: One about fighting with improvised weapons and scenery, maybe allowing him to do his unarmed damage with them. Another that's a bodyguard.

Shaman: One that casts spontaneously like an Oracle.

Scarab Sages

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moon glum wrote:

Gadfly: a small swashbuckler that gets access to close fighting abilities that allow it to literally walk all over larger foe, picking it apart.

I like this idea and love the name.


Gadfly seems more like a prestige class, in that it has requirements.


Archetypes with requirements aren't unheard of (the racial ones being the most prominent example), but if you really didn't want it to have requirements, you could write a bunch of its features in terms of working on creatures N sizes larger than you, which makes it significantly better for small races.

Liberty's Edge

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Swashbuckler Archetypes:

Braggadocio: Can use Derring-do for Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate and Perform.

Blade: Can use the Elven Curve Blade (Elf swashbuckler archetype)


I'm particularly interested in brawler archetype ideas. Any ideas?

Scarab Sages

Cheapy wrote:
I'm particularly interested in brawler archetype ideas. Any ideas?

If we don't get some sort of (Grecian) wrestler focuses on grappling I'd be astonished. I wouldn't be excited by it but it will probably exist and be appropriate to the class.


Cheapy wrote:
I'm particularly interested in brawler archetype ideas. Any ideas?

I was thinking

- Some kind of "suckerpunch" archetype that dumps flurry for bonuses against flat-footed opponents (maybe just a diminished sneak attack progression, maybe something fancier). Maybe also good at attacks of opportunity.

- Something inspired by the Dungeoncrasher ACF from 3.5 that gives you bonuses for slamming people into walls and stuff. Maybe trade flurry for this. Mechanical support for suplexing people though a table, please.

- If we're allowed to get a little silly, maybe a thematic masked wrestler/pro wrestler archetype. Ideally it would trade away flurry for some cool showmanship and secret identity stuff (for the former concept). Maybe play up specific combat maneuvers or combinations of combat maneuvers as your "signature move". Pick Dirty Trick and you can be a heel/rudo!

- Something that lets you trade away something - let's say, for the sake of argument, that that's flurry - in exchange for just being a total boss at one specific combat style (like, the style feats). Sort of like MoMS, but focused especially on one. I'm honestly not sure how you'd pull this off exactly, other than giving early access, which MoMS already does; it seems too complicated for an archetype to define special additional benefits for every style.

- An "old guy with a stick" archetype that gives you some tricks with a quarterstaff. Old guy status optional. (This might make more sense as a monk thing.) Just spitballing, but maybe dump flurry for these benefits.

- The guy who gets you cornered and beats the tar out of you. This is pretty close to the default class, but maybe you could give it some minor bonuses to intimidate or reposition or something. Would probably lose, I dunno, some of the bonus feats or something for this.


Hunter
-Trapper
-No Pet & full BAB Hunter


I'd like a Brawler archetype that's focused on one single powerful punch. Like an ability that doubles damage dice that stacks with the vital strike chain. Better mobility, decent damage, lots of dice. I like the idea; like he's moving from person to person in, I don't know, a bar room brawl, and knocking out each person with one good strike.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Feros wrote:
Hunter - Skinchanger: Replace Animal Focus with limited Wildshape.

Ooh, I'd love it if there was a way to wildshape at level 1.

Grand Lodge

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Cheapy wrote:
I'm particularly interested in brawler archetype ideas. Any ideas?

Gladiator: Can only use flurry with performance weapons.

Silver Crusade

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Rogue: Criminal Mastermind (Gain Investigator Inspiration)


Oooo, oooo, Arcanist: Force Mage! Using spell slots for pure arcane force!

Bloodrager: Forcerager!

I'll have my Jedi analogs yet...


Cheapy wrote:
I'm particularly interested in brawler archetype ideas. Any ideas?

What, you don't like my caparkoureirista concept? ;) An environmental/movement based Brawler that is all about jumping off things and sliding around the place, swinging opponents into things, handstands, rolls etc. Like the mad godchild of a Monk and a Swashbuckler maybe. Or taking some inspiration form Wrestlers (look at LRGG's King of the Ring - I haven't got it, but it has some fans...) or (shudder) luchadores...

If you can get that into the ACG, Master Cheapy, I'd be thrilled....


@Cheapy:

Oh, and:

* An intimidation focused Brawler that can make foes quake with bonuses to hit said quaking opponents.

* Riffing on that theme a Vicious Pugilist that tweaks your very own Vicious Opportunist sneak attack tweak.


Joyd wrote:
- An "old guy with a stick" archetype that gives you some tricks with a quarterstaff. Old guy status optional. (This might make more sense as a monk thing.) Just spitballing, but maybe dump flurry for these benefits.

This would sure fit the stories about Little John! No need to dump flurry, just let flurry work with the staff and give some other benefits.


Atlatl Jones wrote:
Joyd wrote:
- An "old guy with a stick" archetype that gives you some tricks with a quarterstaff. Old guy status optional. (This might make more sense as a monk thing.) Just spitballing, but maybe dump flurry for these benefits.
This would sure fit the stories about Little John! No need to dump flurry, just let flurry work with the staff and give some other benefits.

Really, that one could probably keep flurry. I was mostly joking about dumping flurry for every archetype because flurry (and pretty much everything based on TWF) is an extremely poor mechanic for representing the vast majority of things it gets attached to. I'm always eager for anything that reduces the gulf between full attacks and not-full-attacks, which make for boring combats where everybody just wants to stand still, and the people who are supposed to be all swift and stuff REALLY just want to stand still. While Flurry isn't as much of a disaster on the Brawler as it is on the Monk (where the difference between a flurry attack and a nonflurry attack is even greater, and the archetype is even less about cornering somebody or having the wizard paralyze them, and then beating the crap out of them - something that's in theme for more brawlers), I'm very disappointed to see Flurry used on another class, and wouldn't be sad at all if every archetype replaced it (or if it just went bye-bye from the Brawler itself, probably shunted off to an archetype.) The devs have made it clear that how a class looks on a page is way more important than how it feels in play when it comes to how allegedly swift fighters operate, but that doesn't mean that I can't hope for archetypes that opt out of that at least a little bit. :)


Investigator: Vigilante; Bonus to interrogation, access to certain Alchemist discoveries that focus on self improvement such as preserve Organs, Wings, etc.

And

Saboteur; Bombs, and the ability to focus on something to learn its weaknesses and provide insight.

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