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I know vanilla Summoner dips are commonly advised against, but...it's really tempting for this character.
Skull and Shackles campaign. Bringing back my primary PC who's spent the last several sessions dead and is being offered a rebuild.
Basically as CN->CE Ekujae elven headhunter, alien sense of morality, worships an Arawn-like demon lord of the hunt. His outcast tribe's belief is that you keep what you kill, with those you claim eternally serving as hunts-kin or prey in the afterlife in a nasty sort of jungle environment Valhalla. Campaign goal is to kill his rival who killed his wife and to claim 100 skulls to please his patron and ensure that he can win back his wife in the afterlife.
So basically Predator Elf.
Anyway he died and we went a long stretch without being able to raise him. That's coming to and end soon, and the GM has said what with the torment he's been going through in the meantime(possibly with that Abyssal realm having a bit of a "year inside, hour outside" thing going on), he's going to be afforded a rebuild.
So when he comes back, he's going to be dragging back his first notable "worthy opponent" trophy he claimed after joining the party, a crazed water naga in Eidolon form.
I've got at least 11 levels to work with. This character is primarily going to be an archery-based ranger, but I'd like to throw in some summoner levels to get a decent Serpentine Eidolon.
This is not going to be the most stout Eidolon around, but s/he's also probably going to be intended to be thrown under the bus quite frequently anyway because...well, vicious CN->CE headhunter.
What I'm wondering is how best to make that Eidolon usable without so many levels that the Ranger-archer side of things starts to suffer too much.
Right now I'm looking at Gills and Poison, though that DC with just one HD is probably a longshot at this point in the campaign.
I just wanted to say that this sounds awesome and I shall be waiting to hear more about the character. Fabulous way to explain the eidolon.
I am light on advice, because, as you noted, the prevailing wisdom holds that an eidolon is utterly useless if one multiclasses out of summoner, let alone dipping into it. I don't really like such polar and tendentious claims, but it is true that this particular eidolon will never be very battle-ready.
However, there are things your character can do that most might cringe at. For example, I weep inwardly whenever someone mentions summoning monsters (or, even worse, using his/ her familiar/ eidolon/ animal companion/ little buddy) to set off traps. It makes me feel so lacrimose; there are such tears. But your character might regard this eidolon as property, all rights forfeit upon defeat in battle, and consider it his/ her right to subject this conquered soul to any form of pain or humiliation. After all, it can just be summoned again. I don't know how your character feels about that.
There's also the old "just make it a scout/ wand buddy" argument. Give it UMD and wands of your ranger spells and let it serve you in that way. Oterisk's Dragon Disciple guide has a small amount of advice on that.
Finally, summoner does offer mechanical benefits other than the eidolon. I recommend leveraging shield ally and bond senses. There's something cool and a bit predator-like about getting new senses. In that regard, I would recommend getting your eidolon hella senses. Like, all the senses you can find.
Finally, while you may not be a half-orc, your GM sounds cool and might let you take the blood god disciple archetype from the ARG since it fits PERFECTLY. With that, your eidolon doesn't need to be strong; you just feed it something you knock down and get an evolution. Not huge, but cool, flavorful, and useful if you find the right one-point evolution.
We must hear more about this character.
are some of your daggers a half ounce heavy on the back end? couldn't resist.
Reference or pun? I usually know the source of some sass but I concede I'm drawing a blank here ;).
I've got at least 11 levels to work with. This character is primarily going to be an archery-based ranger, but I'd like to throw in some summoner levels to get a decent Serpentine Eidolon.
This looks like a good call. I'm wondering whether there's a way to compensate for the lack of HD if the eidolon is to be kept relevant; one can get the evolutions desired with relatively few levels in summoner, but I think the limiting factor for efficacy will eventually become HD. Mikaze, do you want this eidolon to see combat? Is it okay for it just to serve as your wand buddy/ caddy/ squire?
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I have to admit I feel like I'm missing the reference too and now it's bugging me. ;)
The build-the-Eidolon-first approach is very tempting, because honestly putting together Eidolons is fun, but I'm trying not to overdo it to the point that it overly hurts the ranger side of things. The naga/eidolon is going to be more of a supportive role than this character's focus(ranger archery, stealth, hunting, etc).
So it looks like support/scout-pal might be the way it's going, though I'd still love to give the naga enough oomph so that I can sic him/her on enemies and not just be throwing them away for the day.
Speaking of which:
However, there are things your character can do that most might cringe at. For example, I weep inwardly whenever someone mentions summoning monsters (or, even worse, using his/ her familiar/ eidolon/ animal companion/ little buddy) to set off traps. It makes me feel so lacrimose; there are such tears. But your character might regard this eidolon as property, all rights forfeit upon defeat in battle, and consider it his/ her right to subject this conquered soul to any form of pain or humiliation. After all, it can just be summoned again. I don't know how your character feels about that.
Yeah, casual summoning cruelty always bugged me too. While I'd definitely say this character can be callous, he actually does have a sense of respect for this Eidolon and the other "worthy opponent" types he's claimed. He fully believes they're "his" by right of strength, skill, and honor, but he also sees them as fellow hunters worthy of being in his afterlife clan. So he'd avoid wanton cruelty, but he fully expects the Eidolon to take whatever is demanded of them.
Some of the plain summons being those souls he's claimed as "prey" seems like it could be a good way to illustrate his mindset though. There might be some respect for a few, but generally it's "anything goes" for them.
Gotta say, Blood God Disciple is mighty tempting, but it does take away some things I think I'd rather keep. Still, keeping that in mind for reflavoring into something else later. :)
I hadn't even considered the mount possibility. I doubt he'll be going in that direction as I really see this guy doing all his jumpy/climby/swimmy stuff himself, but I'll definitely look over the possibilities if upgrading to Large seems managable.
Thanks guys. :)
@GozrehTime
Kassa comes from an offshoot Ekujae tribe of elves in the Mwangi Expanse. This tribe split off of mainstream Ekujae society to form their own culture in the mold of their hero-god Usikude, an Ekujae hunter who was said to be such a great hunter that the spirits blessed him before his rise to divinity, he was given skin as black as night to blend into the shadows and eyes of scarlet that could see his prey even in the absolute darkness. ;)
Anyway, their warrior-hunter culture never spread too far, but it has survived over the centuries, producing elves with even more foreign mindsets to humans than most elves. Casual attitudes towards cannibalism(particularly grippli and lizardfolk) and seeing most other races as sport. Being killed and claimed by an intelligent non-elf is seen as a great shame, damning that elf and all those they've claimed to serve as eternal prey to those that have died with honor.
Anyway, he was happily married to the love of is life, Norohu, for a few decades of hunting and surviving side by side until his rival for her affections, Dajansa, challenged her to a duel, killed her, and claimed her. Kassa completely lost his #$%&, pursuing Dajansa outside the territory of their tribe all the way to the Shackles. Dajansa lured him into a trap that ended with Kassa in chains being sent off to Cheliax as a slave. After that ship sank, he and another survivor from the wreck hooked up with the party towards the end of first book of Skull and Shackles.
He's serving on the ship as a hunter, scout, brutal enforcer, and bizarro voice of conscience on some matters. (even my evil characters can't get behind genocide...Kassa's reason? He's a conservationist) The party has earned his respect and gratitude fro having his back while he has theirs. They also present the best chance possible to track down Dajansa. And they offer ample opportunities to kill warriors from Cheliax. (the relationship between him and the half-elf/half-Chelish captain is weird)
He's likely to slip more towards CE visciousness(and being a bad influence on the captain, who is himself slipping after losing another NPC) after his experiences in death and having lost the one NPC that might have provided a moral anchor. Someone might still be able to pull him back from that, but a very dark CN is about as good as this guy can possibly get, albiet one that is fiercely loyal to his tribe, which at this point is the party and the extended crew. He won't straight up murder bystanders(unless they push certain bererk buttons), but is eager to have an excuse to fight/hunt those that offer decent sport.
Back when the captain blew a bunch of cash to get each member of the party a really special gift that he was certain we would appreciate, he got the scurvy pirate booking at the best brothel in town and the tengu rogue some extremely snazzy duds. For Kassa, he paid a gladiator to hunt him down and kill him. Kassa thought it was the best gift ever. (the GM's reaction was great: "Did you just pay someone to Most Dangerous Game your own crew?" "Yep!")
His brutal customs have actually thrown the GM some curveballs when he found out that an entire band of sahuagin were using a sort of "suicide pill" when he was pulling the teeth out of the dead ones to make into necklaces for the whole crew. That actually wound up saving two enemy NPCs and led to some strange developments with one. (Isabella Locke is alive, kicking, and on the loose in our game)
Appearance: Extremely dark brown skin, dark green eyes, lithe and hard as hell. Ears sporting multiple bone and jeweled piercings, tattoos marking accomplishments and deeds along with those believed to bestow the strength and skill of the spirits along his liimbs and torso. Head's completely shaved save for the back of his head, letting that part grow out into a wild, long shock of hair. Primarily wears leathers and piecemal bits of armor that won't slow him down. At the time of his death, he was wearing the kamadan skin he got when he volunteered to be left alone in a large building with it so they could hunt each other. The party honestly expected him to not survive that one. :)
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I have to admit I feel like I'm missing the reference too and now it's bugging me. ;)
The build-the-Eidolon-first approach is very tempting, because honestly putting together Eidolons is fun, but I'm trying not to overdo it to the point that it overly hurts the ranger side of things. The naga/eidolon is going to be more of a supportive role than this character's focus(ranger archery, stealth, hunting, etc).
So it looks like support/scout-pal might be the way it's going, though I'd still love to give the naga enough oomph so that I can sic him/her on enemies and not just be throwing them away for the day.
Speaking of which:
However, there are things your character can do that most might cringe at. For example, I weep inwardly whenever someone mentions summoning monsters (or, even worse, using his/ her familiar/ eidolon/ animal companion/ little buddy) to set off traps. It makes me feel so lacrimose; there are such tears. But your character might regard this eidolon as property, all rights forfeit upon defeat in battle, and consider it his/ her right to subject this conquered soul to any form of pain or humiliation. After all, it can just be summoned again. I don't know how your character feels about that.Yeah, casual summoning cruelty always bugged me too. While I'd definitely say this character can be callous, he actually does have a sense of respect for this Eidolon and the other "worthy opponent" types he's claimed. He fully believes they're "his" by right of strength, skill, and honor, but he also sees them as fellow hunters worthy of being in his afterlife clan. So he'd avoid wanton cruelty, but he fully expects the Eidolon to take whatever is demanded of them.
Some of the plain summons being those souls he's claimed as "prey" seems like it could be a good way to illustrate his mindset though. There might be some respect for a few, but generally it's "anything goes" for them.
Gotta say, Blood God Disciple is mighty tempting,...
Had a player do this a lot in a Dungeon. He was completely surprised when my Oracle of Life used Selective Channeling to Select him out.
Then he started demanding and Threatening to get me to heal him.
Me: *sigh* ok
Him: *smirking*
Me: *Touch*
Him: that's better.
Me: Inflict Light Wounds.
He spent the rest of the Dungeon Crawl unconscious. He's young and This was when he had just started playing. He's gotten a lot better since then thankfully :3
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Leadership would probably be over the top in this character's case. :) I've actually used Spirit Totems heavily reflavored and switched over to holy damage to make a holy barbarian work(this was before official Celestial Totems came out) so that take is mighty tempting, but I'm most likely going to stick to ranger for this guy.
Got a surprise while planning ahead: You need to have seven levels of Summoner before selecting Poison. Going through, looking at the evolutions that would be legal, it looks like the shopping list that's appropriate to this Eidolon would be:
Evolutions the Eidolon Gets For Free:
Serpentine: Bite, Climb, Reach (Bite), Tail, Tail Slap
1-Point Evolutions
Bite (Already has it, and taking it again will give it only a minor bump I believe)
Claws (situationally dependent on Limbs, and those will likely only be picked up through evolution surge. Still, keeping that option open)
Climb (Already has it, but it might be nice to stack it to boost climbing speed. Especially on ships with enemies in the rigging or crow's nest)
Gills (Thematic match, and highly useful in this campaign)
Improved Damage (Might pick up for Bite, especially since poisoning won't be an option)
Improved Natural Armor (Likely necessary at this point)
Magic Attacks (Might very well be needed at this point in the campaign)
Pull (Situational, but I could see this becoming useful in some situations. Low priority though, not as thematic as Trip)
Push (see: Pull)
Resistance (Might pick something to emulate its growing Abyssal nature, or to reflect the water naga side of things)
Scent (Thematically nice, not sure if it will be completely needed)
Skilled (Probably going to need at least one)
Slam (situationally dependent on Limbs, not as thematically appealing as Claws)
Sting (not much of a chance of it making it in, doesn't quite mesh with the flavor and it'll already have Tail Slap anyway)
Swim (thematic match and totally useful in this campaign, tempted to take it twice to make it faster in water than on land))
Tentacle (thematically iffy to me, but if this Eidolon is continuously twisted by its ordeals in the Abyss, it may be a quick way to show it)
Wing Buffet (see Flight below, may be blocked off anyway though if Flight is only acquired through evolution surge
2-Point Evolutions
Ability Increase (probably going to need at least one of these)
Constrict (matches the theme perfectly, but it requires grab which has limitations all its own. It's something I'd have to build the Eidolon around, I think)
Energy Attacks (acid damage could make for a decent thematic replacement for poison)
Flight (don't think this will be on the standard, but having fiendish wings burst out during evolution surge would be awesome)
Grab (highly situational while the Eidolon is medium. Fits the flavor, but proabaly too situational)
Limbs (could make for a neat Abyssal mutation, but I don't think it'll be on the standard form. Maybe something to rip out of its body during evolution surge...)
Trip (especially appropriate)
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At the moment, I think it's most likely I'll be taking 3-5 levels in Summoner. (granting 5, 7, or 8 evolution points depending on level) Whatever doesn't hurt the ranger side too much.
Mikaze, I don't have any advice to offer. I personally don't like the summoner and haven't delved the rules for it.
BUT THIS CONCEPT ROCKS!
I hope you can make it work. Best of luck.
<awesome character backstory>
Awesome! Thanks for that. Sounds like you're having a blast with this character.
the reference is a line in the movier Chronicles of Riddick. always comes to mind with the phrase you keep what you kill.
Curiosity sated; you have rescued me from a great brooding!
Tentacle (thematically iffy to me, but if this Eidolon is continuously twisted by its ordeals in the Abyss, it may be a quick way to show it)
I wonder whether the shadow-related evolutions are worth it at all (mechanically or thematically) if you want a way to reveal the creature's tenure on the abyss in a visible way. Shades of the dead chittering away on Asphodel, maybe? Perhaps a bit of a stretch.