Warpriest Discussion


Class Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

Scavion wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I think you have to make the favored weapon the best option. Otherwise why is it favored?

Ok, the vision of halfling favoring slings now comes to my mind.

Then we'll have the feat.

Although it would seem reasonable for a halfling god with a sling to exist, if it doesn't already.

Boy it sure seems like a great majority of people are for doing away with Warpriests completely relying on their deity's favored weapon.

And if you do that, what is the feature of the class? Enhancing your weapon? Fighters already do that, better. Same with Paladins.

I disagree with your great majority statement in the same way that I disagree with the great majority statements about disliking the classes in general on a thread full of people actively reading through the classes and discussing them.

If you are going to remove the core feature of the class, what do you propose replacing it with? What will make it not just a multiclass Fighter 8/cleric 12.

Only worse since fighter 8 gets Weapon Specialization and Weapon Training.


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Scavion wrote:
Boy it sure seems like a great majority of people are for doing away with Warpriests completely relying on their deity's favored weapon.

If you (as any generic reader of this) dislike to be bounded with one weapon for deity and you have not said it in this thread please write something about it, lets hear your voice so the dev are aware of how many people like/dislike that.


ciretose wrote:
Scavion wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Nicos wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I think you have to make the favored weapon the best option. Otherwise why is it favored?

Ok, the vision of halfling favoring slings now comes to my mind.

Then we'll have the feat.

Although it would seem reasonable for a halfling god with a sling to exist, if it doesn't already.

Boy it sure seems like a great majority of people are for doing away with Warpriests completely relying on their deity's favored weapon.
And if you do that, what is the feature of the class? Enhancing your weapon? Fighters already do that, better. Same with Paladins.

Likely something that will be added at a later time. At the moment the class is somewhat bland and doesn't seem unique.

Magus and Inquisitor also enhance their weapon, as can many cleric spells.

Grand Lodge

I'm going to throw this out there...the generic Warpriest probably shouldn't tie the class abilities to favored weapon. Since in theory you can have a warpriest of a philosophy and not necessarily have a favored weapon at all, it would be a limiting factor.

If you want to have a favored weapon focused warpriest, accomplish it with an archetype applied to the class (same with a ranged archetype, as I'm assuming most of the generic features are going to be melee-centric).

That said, I prefer tying the class abilities to the favored weapon as a matter of flavor, so I would probably choose to use that archetype, but I don't see a benefit to the game overall making it integral to the base class itself.

Liberty's Edge

Aren of Abadar wrote:

I'm going to throw this out there...the generic Warpriest probably shouldn't tie the class abilities to favored weapon. Since in theory you can have a warpriest of a philosophy and not necessarily have a favored weapon at all, it would be a limiting factor.

If you want to have a favored weapon focused warpriest, accomplish it with an archetype applied to the class (same with a ranged archetype, as I'm assuming most of the generic features are going to be melee-centric).

That said, I prefer tying the class abilities to the favored weapon as a matter of flavor, so I would probably choose to use that archetype, but I don't see a benefit to the game overall making it integral to the base class itself.

Well the Generic Warpriest of Philosophy can take the Simple weapon route, correct?

Or the feat being discussed if need be.

Right now this class isn't much. Sacred weapon as a swift doesn't add much, the Blessings are functionally domains...

I would like to see a lot more focus the War part, as the priest part is covered by the 6 levels of spells and channeling.

I think this class needs to be at least on par offensively with the inquisitor, and right now I'm not seeing it.


Aren of Abadar wrote:

I'm going to throw this out there...the generic Warpriest probably shouldn't tie the class abilities to favored weapon. Since in theory you can have a warpriest of a philosophy and not necessarily have a favored weapon at all, it would be a limiting factor.

If you want to have a favored weapon focused warpriest, accomplish it with an archetype applied to the class (same with a ranged archetype, as I'm assuming most of the generic features are going to be melee-centric).

That said, I prefer tying the class abilities to the favored weapon as a matter of flavor, so I would probably choose to use that archetype, but I don't see a benefit to the game overall making it integral to the base class itself.

I wholeheartedly agree. If you like the favored weapon that much, take an archetype that rewards you for it. There are just far too many discrepancies between weapons right now and they haven't cared to balance the gap before. Not that thats their fault. Legacy issues and all that.

Tackling a legacy issue within a new class is not a good idea.

Personally I'd grant Warpriests the War Domain in addition to their Blessings. Bonus spells per level and all.

Scarab Sages

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ciretose wrote:
Davor wrote:
I actually don't think weapon training is the way to go. Static bonuses are great and all, but the Warpriest has those in heaps. I think unique benefits with certain weapons, associated with deity choice, or perhaps blessing choice, is the way to go.

Well, the current bonuses are swift actions and really not that awesome.

By the time you get Sacred Weapon +1 you probably already have an enhancement bonus on your primary weapon.

But we can explore the blessing angle, what did you have in mind. What I described or something else?

It's true that Sacred Weapon grants only a +1 bonus, but you'll note in the playtest document that the ability explicitly states that this bonus stacks with any other bonuses on the weapon, meaning that, for the duration, you get that bonus, regardless of other bonuses. The main issue, I see, is that it only stacks to +5, at which point you need to rely on the secondary weapon abilities, which is where I think we need more options, which is where the special abilities granted by deities/blessings would come into play.

So, here's the deal: Blessings, at the moment, are either really cool, or really lackluster, and should do something pertaining to the favored weapon of the wielder in addition to the abilities it provides. For example:

Let's start with the Air blessing. We already have 2 universally applicable abilities (you can use them on anyone). Why not something special for the Warpriest, like "While wielding his deity's favored weapon, the Warpriest can move up to 10' as a swift action." I mean, that's a little nuts, but you can see what I'm going for. Or how about the Darkness blessing: "While wielding his deity's favored weapon, the Warpriest ignores miss chance granted by darkness and low light."

Or, how about, since it's a blessing unique to Desna (the subject of much raging in this thread), Liberation: "While wielding your deity's favored weapon, your weapon returns to your hand immediately after being thrown." That'd allow you to do something cool that no other class can do, and makes you better at your weapon than anyone else, while not stepping on anyone's toes in the damage/effectiveness department.


Davor wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Davor wrote:
I actually don't think weapon training is the way to go. Static bonuses are great and all, but the Warpriest has those in heaps. I think unique benefits with certain weapons, associated with deity choice, or perhaps blessing choice, is the way to go.

Well, the current bonuses are swift actions and really not that awesome.

By the time you get Sacred Weapon +1 you probably already have an enhancement bonus on your primary weapon.

But we can explore the blessing angle, what did you have in mind. What I described or something else?

It's true that Sacred Weapon grants only a +1 bonus, but you'll note in the playtest document that the ability explicitly states that this bonus stacks with any other bonuses on the weapon, meaning that, for the duration, you get that bonus, regardless of other bonuses. The main issue, I see, is that it only stacks to +5, at which point you need to rely on the secondary weapon abilities, which is where I think we need more options, which is where the special abilities granted by deities/blessings would come into play.

So, here's the deal: Blessings, at the moment, are either really cool, or really lackluster, and should do something pertaining to the favored weapon of the wielder in addition to the abilities it provides. For example:

Let's start with the Air blessing. We already have 2 universally applicable abilities (you can use them on anyone). Why not something special for the Warpriest, like "While wielding his deity's favored weapon, the Warpriest can move up to 10' as a swift action." I mean, that's a little nuts, but you can see what I'm going for. Or how about the Darkness blessing: "While wielding his deity's favored weapon, the Warpriest ignores miss chance granted by darkness and low light."

Or, how about, since it's a blessing unique to Desna (the subject of much raging in this thread), Liberation: "While wielding your deity's favored weapon, your weapon returns to your hand immediately after being...

I really, really like this idea.

Shadow Lodge

Honestly, I'm not keen on them having weapon training. They shouldn't, in fact, have weapon training. They get access to all fighter feats.

That being said, let's talk about the class as is.

1) 3/4 BAB: In order to be unique vs. Paladin, I like this. It also makes sense with the 6/9 casting.

2) 6/9 Casting: Well, we are not wanting 3.5 to come back with ClericZilla, so lets stick with this, it's smart if we are going to focus on the combat sides of the character.

3) Weapon selection: This is going to have to be opinion based, because there are some very polarized opinions on here about it. I think that there are gods who have Warpriests and gods who don't. There will no doubt be gods who have a few, but not many. It's a WARpriest and not all gods are overly militant.

4) Abilities: This class has a LOT going on. A glut, in fact. Perhaps there is a way to consolidate all of this (It's been brought up many times).

So where are our main problems with the class?

1) Not a clear defined party role by the devs (I believe it is to be a self-buffing situational fighter who can heal in a pinch).

2) Front loaded: Wow do you get a lot for a one level dip into this class.

3) Action Economy: This class has LOTS of abilities, but no time to pull them all off. Needs to be addressed.

4) MAD: This class needs almost every single stat (Int being the only one that it doesn't need AT ALL, but it only has 2+ Skill points, so dumping that is probably a pretty awful idea, as well).

What can be done to help the class?

1) Move the combat feat to Level 2 or level 3, or depending on what else is done to the class, removing it all together.

2) Give this class a sense of individuality. I would say each of the other 9 have something that makes them unique (the exception being Arcanist in it's original version, but that is being fixed).

3) Reduce the need of charisma OUT of the class.

4) Divine Power/Spell Combat: I think making this similar to a magus in a few ways would really help with the action economy and giving it a sense of individuality. Tying most of their glut of abilities into this would be pretty slick and help with action economy, as well.

Shadow Lodge

Davor, I was thinking something very similar. I am in the process of going through each Blessing and noting which ones make sense and which ones don't based on the deity and their weapons as well as the domains.


ArmouredMonk13 wrote:

I like flavor on my characters. I always make sure that my characters have a strong flavor.

But what if warpriest limits my options in that flavor by railroading myself into using a weapon that doesn't fit my theme.

Then maybe you aren't really wanting to play a warpriest at all? Perhaps one of the other choices- cleric, paladin, inquisitor- might be more to your liking?


Cthulhudrew wrote:
ArmouredMonk13 wrote:

I like flavor on my characters. I always make sure that my characters have a strong flavor.

But what if warpriest limits my options in that flavor by railroading myself into using a weapon that doesn't fit my theme.

Then maybe you aren't really wanting to play a warpriest at all? Perhaps one of the other choices- cleric, paladin, inquisitor- might be more to your liking?

alternatively, you can easily solve it by giving everyone what they want, and without destroying the class. Telling someone "Well you shouldn't play..." is a little harsh, especially when its entirely avoidable and you really can make everyone happy(except the guys who don't want you to be happy I guess...)

Shadow Lodge

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MrSin, while I understand what you are meaning, I think that as of right now, the ONLY thing making this class unique is it's focus on the preferred weapon. While I understand where you are coming from, I think thematically, it isn't likely that some gods have Warpriests, and as such, why cave on this then? Should every Desnian out there be a warpriest? No. If they are, should they use a starblade? Yeah, that's kind of what the Devs have gotten at with the inherent design of the class and the quick response to change the class to having weapon prof in whatever the deity's weapon is. Can the class do more to make weapons better? Absolutely. So let's address that, not try and change aspects that the devs seem to want.

Liberty's Edge

@Davor- That was kind of where I was going with the blessings being weapon based rather than aspect based.

I think if you get to specific with deities it won't work, as the rules aren't supposed to be setting specific.

However if you say "Weapons in the thrown group get returning" that would work.

And the bonus does stack, but as you said, caps. Which is why I preferred the weapon training route.

Which also works thematically if you have been training with your deities favored weapon intensively.

I think we are going the same place.

Silver Crusade

Trogdar wrote:

What about giving the class the benefits of its buffs in a more effective way? In essence the class is like a cleric, but benefits from clerical combat buffs in a way that clerics can't emulate.

At level two the warpriest gets extend metamagic as a bonus feat.

At level 3 the warpriests gains the benefits from extend metamagic for its buff spells without adjustment at something like level 3.

At level six, the warpriests extended spells change to the next time increment instead of doubling the time they last.

Major caveats being the levels I just chose are arbitrary, but low enough that the warpriest could see benefits from this inside of pfs play. I guess there would have to be some sort of language that makes hour per level spells into 24hour spells or something.

No. Quicken/swift action casting is fine and thematic. Persistent Spell was a +6 spell level metamagic in 3.5 for a reason, and then they introduced metamagic reducers/Divine Metamagic which pulled the rug out from under even that limitation.

We want better, not too good. Turning on divine power when you wake up and leaving it up all day is basically turning the class into a full BAB/d10 class that's vulnerable to dispel magic. I agree that the warpriest needs to be able to have better action economy with his buffs (I've only posted proposals for abilities to that effect four or five times), but not to be able to bypass the action economy completely.

Besides, what's the better image? "Well, might run into some heretics today, better turn on the ol' divine faucet this morning for some power as I go about my business," or "Blasphemer! Fall in the name of [Asmodeus/Iomedae/Gorum/take your pick]!" *Grows to double in height (and by a factor of eight in weight, etc :p) mid-charge.* I know which one I pick.

Davor wrote:
Does anyone else ever get the feeling that people just skip over their posts answering many questions and problems people have? I tend to get that a lot, apparently. >_>

Yeah, I've been starting to. <_<

Craft Cheese wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Clearly the developers intend for this to be a class that worships a god but doesn't follow any of the god tenets. Asking people to actually play character with the flavor of the setting is cruel and restrictive.(s)
Your character's flavor is literally anything you want it to be. Heck, half the fun of writing character backstories is taking a weird combination of stuff and making them make sense: Anyone can write a Paladin of Iomedae, but a Paladin of Lamashtu? How did that happen?

It didn't. Lamashtu is explicitly opposed to everything a paladin stands for; there is no reason in the Heavens, the Hells, or the Material Plane that she would sponsor one.


Heofthehills wrote:
MrSin, while I understand what you are meaning, I think that as of right now, the ONLY thing making this class unique is it's focus on the preferred weapon.

Doesn't mean its what we should run with though.

Heofthehills wrote:
While I understand where you are coming from, I think thematically, it isn't likely that some gods have Warpriests, and as such, why cave on this then?

Actually I agree. But I don't think you should throw warpriest in the gutter for the deities who do, and from a meta perspective I'd rather try and make everyone happy and give them choices. Additionally, some gods you would think would have warpriest of sorts actually have terrible weapons. The example given above were pharasma worshipper characters fighting the undead with their fearsome umm... dagger?

I really don't mind giving bonuses to favored weapons, but if you make the class surround them then it hurts in the long run I think. I'd prefer it as an archetype really.

Heofthehills wrote:
So let's address that, not try and change aspects that the devs seem to want.

Statement on that? If people say "Hey! That's not what we want" then that's the feedback they're looking for right? or at least a type of feedback.

Silver Crusade

Heofthehills wrote:


4) Divine Power/Spell Combat: I think making this similar to a magus in a few ways would really help with the action economy and giving it a sense of individuality. Tying most of their glut of abilities into this would be pretty slick and help with action economy, as well.

I think you might be on to something here. A Sacred Prayer Pool to generate temporary weapon or armor bonuses that you activate as a swift action. Would combine the Sacred Weapon and Sacred Armor into a single ability drawing from a single pool to simplify mechanics and record keeping. Maybe even add a spell combat style ability allowing them to activate a blessing ability and do a single attack as if they were 2-weapon fighting.

I'm starting to see some possibility here from a story point of view. The warpriest is actually a Divine Exemplar, showing the best qualities of their god/goddess. They use the god's favored weapon as their primary weapon, showing how effective the weapon is. They use a blessing (aka domain) featuring the goddess' portfolio to show their goddess' majesty and power. Kind of paladin-like, but not restricted to specific gods. Definitely a bit different than the mission of the cleric and inquisitor.

Shadow Lodge

Discussing this with my wife, I had an epiphany to make everyone happy:

Archetype: There is likely an archetype (or we can lobby for one)that gives up a reasonable few things but allows the warpriest to pick a different weapon by giving something up.

I think that should fix this for EVERYONE. Agreed?


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Heofthehills wrote:

Discussing this with my wife, I had an epiphany to make everyone happy:

Archetype: There is likely an archetype (or we can lobby for one)that gives up a reasonable few things but allows the warpriest to pick a different weapon by giving something up.

I think that should fix this for EVERYONE. Agreed?

I'm not a fan of giving things up for something I probably should've had in the first place personally. Would make more sense to make the favored weapon guy an archetype imo, give up your wide choice for some bonuses.

Scarab Sages

See, I would argue that the bonus from Sacred Weapon allows the Warpriest to bypass the +10 enhancement bonus cap, allowing him to get +9 worth of magic abilities in addition to a +5 weapon, which would balance it out.

But then, most people would argue that I'm just crazy.


MrSin wrote:
Heofthehills wrote:

Discussing this with my wife, I had an epiphany to make everyone happy:

Archetype: There is likely an archetype (or we can lobby for one)that gives up a reasonable few things but allows the warpriest to pick a different weapon by giving something up.

I think that should fix this for EVERYONE. Agreed?

I'm not a fan of giving things up for something I probably should've had in the first place personally. Would make more sense to make the favored weapon guy an archetype imo, give up your wide choice for some bonuses.

This one.

Even more, lets have really flavorful archetypes for the golarion deities in a gods of golarion 2 (or someting). The core class should be as world neutral as posible by the other hand.

Shadow Lodge

Heofthehills wrote:

Honestly, I'm not keen on them having weapon training. They shouldn't, in fact, have weapon training. They get access to all fighter feats.

That being said, let's talk about the class as is.

1) 3/4 BAB: In order to be unique vs. Paladin, I like this. It also makes sense with the 6/9 casting.

2) 6/9 Casting: Well, we are not wanting 3.5 to come back with ClericZilla, so lets stick with this, it's smart if we are going to focus on the combat sides of the character.

3) Weapon selection: This is going to have to be opinion based, because there are some very polarized opinions on here about it. I think that there are gods who have Warpriests and gods who don't. There will no doubt be gods who have a few, but not many. It's a WARpriest and not all gods are overly militant.

4) Abilities: This class has a LOT going on. A glut, in fact. Perhaps there is a way to consolidate all of this (It's been brought up many times).

So where are our main problems with the class?

1) Not a clear defined party role by the devs (I believe it is to be a self-buffing situational fighter who can heal in a pinch).

2) Front loaded: Wow do you get a lot for a one level dip into this class.

3) Action Economy: This class has LOTS of abilities, but no time to pull them all off. Needs to be addressed.

4) MAD: This class needs almost every single stat (Int being the only one that it doesn't need AT ALL, but it only has 2+ Skill points, so dumping that is probably a pretty awful idea, as well).

What can be done to help the class?

1) Move the combat feat to Level 2 or level 3, or depending on what else is done to the class, removing it all together.

2) Give this class a sense of individuality. I would say each of the other 9 have something that makes them unique (the exception being Arcanist in it's original version, but that is being fixed).

3) Reduce the need of charisma OUT of the class.

4) Divine Power/Spell Combat: I think making this similar to a magus in a few ways would really help with...

I agree with most of what you said, but could you (or someone) please link to where it says Warpriests do get access to Fighter Feats?

Shadow Lodge

World neutral, sure, but the core rulebook uses a certain selection of the Golarion deities. They are core.

Can we at least let the disagreement about the weapon go for now and focus on other aspects of the class? There are ways to fix it, and while some folks may not like one direction or the other, we can't control either of them. There is A LOT more to this whole class that needs to be worked on/tweaked than just the weapon selection, as that can be managed with a few lines or an archetype.

I do love the idea of flavorful archetypes (to create ways to make weapons that are sub-par much better, for instance) but the main thing we need to focus on is the base class.

I'm currently going through the blessings to see where they need tweaking.


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The biggest issue I have with the favored weapon thing is that this class is actually paying for martial weapon proficiency, but is actively discouraged from using it.

This honestly makes no sense at all.

Liberty's Edge

Davor wrote:

See, I would argue that the bonus from Sacred Weapon allows the Warpriest to bypass the +10 enhancement bonus cap, allowing him to get +9 worth of magic abilities in addition to a +5 weapon, which would balance it out.

But then, most people would argue that I'm just crazy.

At that point it is basically weapon training, which is what I was advocating for being added.

Shadow Lodge

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Trogdar, that is fair, but we don't know how much that is actually costing it and it is also allowing people to have a good ranged/melee weapon depending on their deities favored weapon (if I worship Erastil, I would really like to have a longsword when an enemy closes), but I do agree that it isn't necessarily needed.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

First a comment. I have lurked on the ACG forum for several days and I have noted a belligerent, argumentative, and sometimes downright mean attitude from a lot of people. If you want to complain, argue, and get angry please go elsewhere. You have all been invited to playtest, and provide feedback, so do so with tact and thanks that you are allowed to help create a new and fun product. Also, read other comments before posting, everyone is tired of reading the same question or comment over and over and over.

*steps off soapbox*

Now comment about Warpriest. I think the suggestion of allowing them full access to domain spells is a good and interesting notion. It also have precedent, the Summoner has a similar mechanic with summon spells and limited casting. This could help appease nay-sayers and provide a useful mechanic.


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It woudl be good if some dev appears from time to tie to tell what suggestion already made they are taking into consideration and what other suggestions will not.

Is weapon training being considered? is spellcombat for self buff considered?

Shadow Lodge

They are likely home for the weekend. They have to have some time off beyond just strolling through the boards. There has been very little chatter from the devs this weekend and I think they will likely post the arcanist revision before the other classes can see major changes.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

has there been any official word on whether warpriest levels count as fighter levels for taking feats? there's nothing in the OP but i know the devs stated specifically that brawler levels do...

i might have a chance to play one of these this week and that would definitely effect my build...


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@Nicos

Agreed. It was immensely helpful for the Devs to step into the Hunter thread early on to say definitively that they did NOT want the Hunter to be a shapeshifter of any kind.

The same sort of feedback would be useful here. We don't need to know exactly which suggestions or changes are going to be considered or make it into the next iteration of the Warpriest, but it would be good to know if any of the ideas being presented were flatly off the table.

I am still of the mind that spell combat in some form is a must for this class. If that isn't an option, okay. Then I can put energy into other ideas.

Similarly, if full BAB is off the table (as I imagine it is/should be) then it would be good to know. The more absolutes we can get the better.

Shadow Lodge

Nate, I think because of the Brawler statement being made, you can extrapolate that. It hasn't been stated, but it isn't considered a change to Brawler, so it should be for all of them.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Heofthehills wrote:
Nate, I think because of the Brawler statement being made, you can extrapolate that. It hasn't been stated, but it isn't considered a change to Brawler, so it should be for all of them.

thanks Hoth- that's what i figured, i was just hoping to have something to quote if/when i post a playtest build and get flamed for taking wpn spec with it...


Heofthehills wrote:
Nate, I think because of the Brawler statement being made, you can extrapolate that. It hasn't been stated, but it isn't considered a change to Brawler, so it should be for all of them.

That is a pretty bold statement. It might end up being true, but I would definitely suspend judgement until that is made as a blanket statement.

We have no real way of knowing at this point if that applies to all of these hybrids or just to the Brawler.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Ran for a War priest today and as the only healer at level 1 he felt a lot of pressure to try to keep up with the healing load. I find this to be equally true of all non-channel healers prior to Wand acquisition but definitely came up today in Master of the Fallen Fortress.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

and, actually, they did add the "brawler=fighter + monk for feats" to the OP of that thread...


I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I can't find which class features vanish if you become of an unsuitable alignment to your god. If, for example, a Warpriest of Desna gets converted somehow by Norgorber's followers... what happens? Loss of spells, channels, weapon focus? Immediate flip of Weapon Focus and all those bestow abilities? What happens if you just become true neutral and stop worshiping Desna? There's text that the god influences alignment and all that, I didn't see anything that prohibits it. The cleric has those handy lines spelling out precisely what occurs should they turn their back on their god. (Or draw poorly from the deck of many things, for example.)

At least, I presume that's a bug and not a feature.

Anywho, if anyone is still reading these things, some simple, suggested changes, keeping most things intact:

Spoiler:

0. Spell out what happens if you lose your faith or your alignment flops.
1. Flip the first level bonus feat with Channel Energy. Change the leveling of Channel Energy and the bonus feats accordingly. This leads to some artifactual improvements: You can take Channeling feats starting at first level. Your bonus feat progression hits at key BAB intervals as would a fighter (+1, +6, and +8. You still get your regular feat at +11.) You can take power attack, improved sunder, and improved critical the moment you qualify.
2. Ignore Weapon Focus w/ Favoured as a bonus feat and instead get a +1 bonus on attack rolls with the favoured weapon that increases in increment at the levels where you would normally have a BAB increase (1st, 5th, 9th, etc.) This doesn't NECESSARILY need to come starting at first level, but it does bring back a bit of the fighter feel I think this class needs. You still can hit things with your god's weapon starting at first level (as well as any other martial at least) but you're not taking any other weapon focus feats unless you actually took the feat. Considering you'll get bonus feats soon enough, you can spend those on Weapon Focus if you like.
At least, I would prefer if there was an increase as appropriate to full BAB, but you can say, "+1 bonus" and not actually have the whole feat that gives a darn good free prerequisite to dippers.

These changes reduce the gains at first level to one level of spells, 1d6 of channeling, +2 to Fort and Will, and full martial proficiency with effectively no BAB loss if the favoured weapon is used, and EWP if the favoured weapon is exotic. The big difference is you don't get two whole feats.

Other suggestions that are perhaps more radical...

Spoiler:
3. Allow feats that have Channel Energy as a prerequisite to be selected as bonus feats. These feats are often flavorful and sometimes enhance combat ability and allows for greater flexibility in how you want to build your character. I would also be fully behind seeing more channeling feats in this book. :)
4. The Blessings are a neat idea, but they are so mechanically similar to Domains that I'm wondering why I don't just take the domains. I would love to see some stuff similar to the Orders that cavaliers have. Something that spells out a bit of the fluff of the Gods and a few abilities to choose from for customization. This could be a nice place to spell out what happens to an ex-worshiper and make it individual for each god. (Lose powers, Gain scars or auras of dishonor, permanent hangovers, penalties to saving throws, and I'm sure instant death would be in flavor for some of the evil gods; if that seems stringent... they are EVIL gods!)
Of course this comes with problems. It reduces backward compatibility with other gods not in the core that don't have these things listed, whereas domains are already listed and you can take the blessing that corresponds with the domain (assuming that is spelled out, which it currently isn't.)
5. Another thing that could be done to differentiate the blessings from domains is to give a broader selection rather than the same limit of two that get better with leveling. Make the abilities similar to rogue talents, magus arcana, or rage powers with two low level concerns and a single high level concern and then allow the warpriest to select from ALL available to their god.
But wait, when would you select these? Well, at least one at first level, and then one whenever you would normally get to add enhancement bonuses to your weapon or armor. (The leveling doesn't distribute evenly, but hear me out.) All of those little bonuses you apply to your weapon or armor that are alignment dependant? Make those options you can select out of your alignment blessings. For example:

Good Blessing
Deities: The Good ones
Warpriests that select from these abilities must maintain a good alignment or lose these abilities.
Holy Strike (Su): Your weapons flash with holy light as they strike out against evil. As a swift action after dealing damage to an evil creature with your diety's favoured weapon, you can expend a use of RESOURCE to blind that creature for 1 round unless it makes a saving throw.
Good Weapons (Su): Your weapons are treated as magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. If you are using your god's favoured weapon, it is treated as magic and good. You must be at least 4th level to select this blessing.
Merciful Strike (Su): As a swift action, you can expend a use of RESOURCE to have your weapon act as though it had the Merciful weapon quality for one minute. You must be at least 4th level to select this blessing.
Shining Armor (Su): As a standard action, you may spend a use of RESOURCE. If you do, you get a +1 enhancement bonus to your armor for one minute. This bonus becomes +2 against evil creatures and you gain DR 1/- against evil creatures. This bonus stacks with other enhancement bonuses and other forms of DR that your armor provides. You must be at least 7th level to select this blessing.
Holy Weapon (SU): As a swift action, you can have your weapon act as though it had the Holy weapon quality for one minute. This ability costs two uses of RESOURCE. You must be at least 10th level to select this blessing.

So yes, I'm suggesting merging the blessings and the sacred weapon/armor abilities with something that increases customization without sacrificing flavor and potency. The above assumes the use of some resource that can be expended, but that needn't be the case if the abilities are low enough in power level and static in their effect. Whatever the abilities are, they can be distributed among the normal domain titles as appropriate to their associated deities. (If it seems limited, keep in mind this is just one possible blessing. Desna for example would be able to choose from under chaos, good, luck, liberation, and travel. Not just from two of them.)
I would suggest gaining these blessings at 1, 4, 7, 10, 14, 17, and 20. It's quite a big suggested change, which is why I led with the small ones. :)
Yes the crossing of Blessings with Rogue Talents doesn't exactly feel like either a cleric or a fighter, but truth be told neither does the sacred weapon/armor ability. It feels more like a Paladin's divine bond or a magus' weapon enhancement ability.

I really like this class' central tenants and want to see it live. As it stands it has something of an identity crisis. Sometimes the combination of two different elements leads to something greater than the sum of its parts. Not necessarily in terms of power or combat prowess, but in terms of flavor and coolness. Fighters are cool. Clerics are cool. I want to be able to say that Warpriests are cool too.

Shadow Lodge

They have said it in two of the threads, I can't remember which one, but I have seen it referenced in two different threads. I don't think it's a stretch to think they are all going to count, since they count as those classes for the purposes of multiclassing. As it hasn't been confirmed, you can take it or leave it, but I really, really think we can count on that aspect.

Shadow Lodge

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Heofthehills wrote:
Nate, I think because of the Brawler statement being made, you can extrapolate that. It hasn't been stated, but it isn't considered a change to Brawler, so it should be for all of them.

I wouldn't count on that. That's why I kept asking for links from you. From what I have heard, that was only the Brawler, and we shouldn't assume it will apply to the Warpriest as well.

Im going to politely ask you to stop saying that as if it is true, because it leads to a false assumption (as of right now at least). If they do decide that, that's one thing, but right now, the Warpriest does not qualify for any Fighter-only Feats.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think the Warpriest should get access to all martial. Why because it's a warpriest.
If a god that has paladins is ok with a Paldin not using their favored weapon in the course of adventuring, I doubt they'd be too upset at their warpriests using the correct tool for the job.

While I understand Ciretose's point, it's easier for me to believe the god would want their warpriests to be successful more than they'd want them to be a stickler for the favored weapon rule.
They probably would not have as many rules to follow as a normal cleric would either. They are used and trained for a specific cause: battle.
They should represent the god's wrath on the field of battle more than trying to proselytize.

I could see them possibly gaining access to the war domain, whether their god normally grants it to their followers or not, as a third domain.

Shadow Lodge

Here we go

The implication made here and here:

Second example

By a designer indicates that the brawler rule is the general rule. It isn't explicit, but by saying the answer is there, then I think it is not far fetched at that point.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

How about making his casting stat be based on WIS and make him a Spontous Divine as there isn't one yet for that stat next to the Inquistor.


Jem'Nai wrote:
How about making his casting stat be based on WIS and make him a Spontous Divine as there isn't one yet for that stat next to the Inquistor.

Oracle uses it too? and the same spell list?

Silver Crusade

MrSin wrote:
Jem'Nai wrote:
How about making his casting stat be based on WIS and make him a Spontous Divine as there isn't one yet for that stat next to the Inquistor.
Oracle uses it too? and the same spell list?

Oracles use Charisma.

Shadow Lodge

Outside of a couple of bloodlines, all Spontaneous casters use Cha. It's part of the concept. You are using your force of personality to cast spells. They come from within. I don't think this is the right route for this, as you are a divine warrior for a god (Oracles are ideas/ideals/sometimes gods and they may not know it)


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I too would rather not see the Warpriest tied to a deity's favored weapon. I can see the flavor argument going both ways, but at the end of the day, as a divine class, I think you get more flavor from the deity you worship than the weapon you use. I'd rather see player's saying "I really want to play a warpriest of Cayden Cailen" instead of "I really want my warpriest to use a rapier - guess I have to worship Cayden Cailen."

If the developers want that to be the unique hook of this class though, I think I'd like to see specific weapons gain specific benefits as some have suggested. Since Pathfinder is supposed to be setting neutral, however, I think you'd need to see those bonuses listed out by weapon (or at least by weapon group) rather than by deity. That could run into a space restriction problem, but would be the better way, in my opinion, of making sacred weapon a more interesting and flavorful feature.

I don't think that's the only way to give this class a unique, flavorful niche, however. Many people have suggested giving the warpriest a way to cast buffs and heals with better action economy, and I think that would fill a unique and useful spot in the class roster. The problem clerics have is that need time to buff up if they want to be truly effective in combat, and even when they do, they still face the round to round decision of whether to fight or cast. A warpriest with the ability to cast buffs or heals as a part of a charge or full-attack action would be able to bridge that gap. True, they still won't fight as well as a fighter, or provide support as well as a cleric, but they would have a unique and useful role to fill in a party, and isn't that what we're looking for: a reason for this class to exist?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Which god has greatsword as their favored weapon?

Silver Crusade

Kryzbyn wrote:
Which god has greatsword as their favored weapon?

Gorum and Szuriel off the top of my head.

Sovereign Court

I was looking through the posts, but did not see anything like what I am going to ask.

In regards to the Blessings, would it make the Warpriest to powerful to increase the number of allies or weapons he can touch when he uses his blessing? At 1st level only one target, at 5th level 2 targets and an additional target every 5 levels. (Max 5 at 20th level)

As a standard action to use a Blessing, at least the majority of Blessings, why would I want to use multiple Blessings over multiple rounds to benefit my group? Would this not help on the economy of actions if you could affect multiple targets with a single standard action? There are numerous spells that allow for multiple targets based on caster level.

Dark Archive

Honestly, I'd just be happy if they fixed the MAD problem. They are currently suffering from the same degree of debilitating MAD as was seen in 3.5e paladins. That class was so bad in 3.5e that it was only really useful as a stepping stone to get a bunch of blackguard levels after an intentional fall. That being said, the warpriest is still far more powerful ye olde paladin that was arguably weaker than taking levels in commoner. Still, that MAD is a huge issue. It should be the first thing they fix about this class, not its mechanics. Yeah, I will agree those need some brushing up, but that MAD is currently the one thing about the class that sticks out to me the most.

... Okay, maybe having active blessings be a swift action would also be helpful. >_>

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