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I think part of what makes the witch, the witch, is the free choice of hexes. I don't think the shaman should go that route, but it does get fewer hexes. It also seems like maybe there ought to be some general purpose hexes open to all shamans, regardless of spirit.
It also seems like maybe there ought to be some general purpose hexes open to all shamans, regardless of spirit.
Ooh, that's a nice idea. Any specific ideas? I'd love for a general hex that improves the familiar somehow. For example, it starts as a small, flat bonus, then adds Evolved Familiar as a bonus feat at level 5 without pre-reqs, and finally grants Improved Familiar at level 10.
Ok so this week playtesting in society I did something kinda crazy. My Shaman is now Shaman2 / Martial Artist Monk 2. I took it for 3 reasons. extra attack options since the spells are more defensive and buffy in nature, grapple so I can have some fun, and evasion so in 4 levels cast a fireball centered on myself and not take damage. I'm fire spirit shaman just so you know. The overall plan is grapple, pulling them onto my spikes, then start burning them with the flame touch spirit ability. Basically I have now nicknamed myself the Human BBQ. :P
I think you've hit on an aspect developers have missed all together--they're all grappling based in terms of combat. The core of the Shaman class should reflect that somehow: grapple as larger creature, CMB/CMD bonus progression, perhaps adding wisdom bonus to strength when grappling, and/or the ability to grapple with spirits.
In terms of spells--I like the idea of working more than just two spirit pacts into the class to provide spell like effects. Perhaps the mechanic can take the form of totems (small fetishes) which represent contracts between minor spirits and the shaman providing a small set of effects (reaction bonus, improved saves, or other minor spells.)
I don't know if I necessarily see the thematic problem unless we're going for a really narrowly-tailored idea of a Shaman, which I think is an awful idea for a base class. Aside from the fact that there isn't exactly solid, universal agreement on what that narrowly-tailored vision of a Shaman would be, tying a base class to a very specific and restrictive idea drastically limits the kind of campaigns and settings in which it could reasonably fit.
Simply put, the class should remain thematically broad and the fine-tuning of the fluff as to what spirits are and how they interact with the Shaman should come down to the player.
Mechanically speaking, the class could use a lot of changes if it is supposed to feel in any way unique or is supposed to seem remotely similar to the witch. As it stands, it seems more like an oracle/cleric hybrid inexplicably given a familiar.
It's not a matter of being "narrow"....it's a matter of being thematically relevant.
If a fighter had 1/2 BA, only simple weapon proficiencies, and no armor proficiencies.....it wouldn't be much of a "fighter".
The basic definition of a shaman revolves around detecting and dealing with spirits, both to gain power, as well as defending the folk against the abilities of harmful spirits.
It's what a shaman is.
Bad Matrix joke. Neo is the hero of the film.I don't get it ???...........:("neo-druid"There is no (wooden) spoon.
Damn...my clan members are right....I have no sense of humor.
I had to read your response three times before I got it :(
It's not a matter of being "narrow"....it's a matter of being thematically relevant.
If a fighter had 1/2 BA, only simple weapon proficiencies, and no armor proficiencies.....it wouldn't be much of a "fighter".
The basic definition of a shaman revolves around detecting and dealing with spirits, both to gain power, as well as defending the folk against the abilities of harmful spirits.
It's what a shaman is.
In what sense does the Shaman not currently deal with spirits to gain power and defend others from harmful supernatural creatures or restore the harm caused by those creatures? They gain all of their supernatural powers from spirits. If you're objecting to the manner in which the spirits are presented, I reiterate my concern about making a base class that's too narrowly-tailored; I'd rather see extremely vague spirits that can be refluffed to fit various settings and concepts than an extremely specific presentation of spirits that allows for very little variance of interpretation. The latter is fine for the Dragonlance prestige class because it's a prestige class for a specific campaign setting; for a setting-neutral base class, I think that level of specificity is extremely problematic.
The only real disconnect between the class and the typical idea of a Shaman is that the class apparently communes with the spirits through their familiars, rather than through reaching an altered state of consciousness. Even still, nothing is stopping anyone from spending some of their starting gold on flayleaf or taking ranks in Craft (Alchemy) and roleplaying their shaman entering a trance to gain their spells.
Finally, I'll reiterate that the pop-culture and pulp fantasy ideas of a Shaman aren't necessarily the same as the anthropological definitions of a Shaman; for that matter, it's not like there is a solid, universally acknowledged consensus amongst anthropologists about the meaning of the term of if it should be used at all.
In what sense does the Shaman not currently deal with spirits to gain power and defend others from harmful supernatural creatures or restore the harm caused by those creatures?
Certain spells like Protection from Evil, Undeath Ward, Remove Curse, and Chain of Perdition are particularly suited to dealing with certain spirits and their effects. Clerics get access to those, while Druids don't. So for those of us who want a Shaman that can kick ethereal posterior, the Druid spell list is limiting. For those of us who want to commune with nature, Druid has it covered.
Lead Designer
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In anticipation of a revised version of the playtest document going live, this thread is locked. A new thread will be created to discuss the revised version of the class. Please refrain from carrying over existing discussions to the new thread to avoid confusion.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer