The Morphling |
Is there any reason a character with a supernatural ranged touch attack ability (let's say the Moonbeam power of Lunar oracles, or any of the elemental ray blasts of the various sorcerer bloodlines) couldn't make multiple such attacks as part of a full attack?
Could they (and here's the weird part) get another beam per round if they used two-weapon fighting? You'd fire Moonbeam 1 from your right hand, and Moonbeam 2 from your left. With the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you'd get two attacks at -2 each. Does this work?
Seems to me that it would. It's not listed as any sort of action, just as a "ranged touch attack."
The Morphling |
because its a standard action to use a spell-like ability, or longer if the spell its based on has a longer casting time.
so no.
Read the post, and read the abilities. It's not a spell-like ability, it's not a standard action, and it doesn't have a cast time.
Stazamos |
The supernatural ability costs a specific action, usually standard (if it doesn't say an action, it's standard), and supernatural abilities are not included in the description of iterative attacks. Even though the result of using the power is a ranged touch attack, the trigger is a supernatural ability. The ability would have to specifically say that it can be used as part of a full attack. That's my interpretation.
If I GMed such a character, I might allow it, depending on the other PCs in the party.
Pupsocket |
Is there any reason a character with a supernatural ranged touch attack ability (let's say the Moonbeam power of Lunar oracles, or any of the elemental ray blasts of the various sorcerer bloodlines) couldn't make multiple such attacks as part of a full attack?
Could they (and here's the weird part) get another beam per round if they used two-weapon fighting? You'd fire Moonbeam 1 from your right hand, and Moonbeam 2 from your left. With the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you'd get two attacks at -2 each. Does this work?
Seems to me that it would. It's not listed as any sort of action, just as a "ranged touch attack."
Those ray blasts are either spell-like. which means they have a casting time (1 standard action is the default), or supernatural, which use the "use supernatural ability" action (also a standard action).
The only exception I can think of is the lantern archon, who has (Ex) rays.
So yes, there's a reason they can't make full attacks.
RainyDayNinja RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
All of those magical ranged touch attacks from the Sorcerer bloodlines and such are spell-like abilities. You can tell because they have "(sp)" after the name. But that doesn't really matter, because:
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Using a spell-like ability works like casting a spell in that it requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity. Spell-like abilities can be disrupted. If your concentration is broken, the attempt to use the ability fails, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability. The casting time of a spell-like ability is 1 standard action, unless the ability description notes otherwise.
...
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
So in any case it's a standard action, and can't be used to make a full-attack. So by the rules, no, you can't. But it wouldn't be an unreasonable houserule, since at the levels where you would have iterative attacks or effects like haste, it's still crap damage compared to what you can do with your spells.
kronovan |
I went there with this recently in PFS play with my Elemental Sorcerer when the party had Haste cast on them. I argued my elemental ray was different than spells and that it should get the benefit of the extra attack, but that went over like a drunk Orc in a crystal shop. ;)
As others have said, such weapons are spell-like or supernatural and take a standard action to use. It does seem a bit unfair with a weapon like a elemental ray where you're range is capped at 30' and you don't get the residual effect of the element. Then again you're firing at touch AC and you can bonus it with weapon related feats like point blank shot or weapon focus, so there's that.
Xaratherus |
Xaratherus wrote:Now you could get two a round if the GM allowed your character to take the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat.Except that the examples provided in the OP are not spell-like abilities.
The OP mentions the Lunar oracle mystery and the rays granted by Sorcerer bloodlines. Many of those rays are, in fact, spell-like. For example, the Fire Ray and Acidic Ray abilities from the Efreeti and Aberrant bloodlines (respectively) are both spell-like.
James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
Rock Lord |
Raise thread!
Unless otherwise noted, activating the power of a revelation is a standard action.
Moonbeam (Su): You can fire a ray of moonlight as a ranged touch attack at any creature within 30 feet.
Would the "as a ranged touch attack" be the "otherwise note" for action economy in this case?
Drunk Orc in a Crystal Shop |
I went there with this recently in PFS play with my Elemental Sorcerer when the party had Haste cast on them. I argued my elemental ray was different than spells and that it should get the benefit of the extra attack, but that went over like a drunk Orc in a crystal shop. ;)
HEY!! Wash tha s'posedta mean? [crash]
Jeraa |
Raise thread!
Advanced Player's Guide wrote:Unless otherwise noted, activating the power of a revelation is a standard action.Lunar Oracle: Moonbeam Revelation wrote:Moonbeam (Su): You can fire a ray of moonlight as a ranged touch attack at any creature within 30 feet.Would the "as a ranged touch attack" be the "otherwise note" for action economy in this case?
No, because "ranged touch attack" means absolutely nothing when it comes to action economy. It just tells you that it is a ranged attack (so uses your Dexterity modifier) that targets touch AC.