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I was recently thumbing through the "Blood of the Moon" book and found a way to get 5 natural attacks by 2nd level.
If you are a Wereboar-kin when you transform you have one of a handful of abilities you can choose to have affect you. The two we are going to focus on are:
1) Gore attack that deals 1d6 points of damage
2) 2 hoof attacks that each deal 1d4 points of damage.
When you transform you can only choose one of your abilities to affect you unless you spend a feat then you can get a 2nd ability.
So I spend my first feat so that when I transform I can have 3 natural attacks.
Then my first two levels are as a ranger. I choose to take the Natural Weapon combat style so that I can get the Aspect of the Beast feat. I choose to get 2 primary claw attacks from the feat. At 2nd level I can get 5 attacks a round.
Does anyone else find this ridiculous?
At least the hooves are natural attacks I guess? Definitely doesn't sound pretty.
I keep hearing this, but with 5 natural attacks all going off of your highest BAB?
Not quite. I don't have Blood of the Moon, but I assume the follow the standard universal monster rules. Hoof attacks are classified as secondary attacks. This mean, when you use them in a full attack, you use BAB-5. Hypothetically, if you had a +7 to hit overall a 2nd level, with a full attack, you could do a +7 bite, two +7 claws, and two +2 hoofs, and only when transformed. I don't know the rules for lycanthropy, but I suspect you can't just have it on all the time, it instead activates at certain times.
I keep hearing this, but with 5 natural attacks all going off of your highest BAB? Sounds like you'll be hitting about 3 times as much, applying your (admittedly, pricier) bonuses a lot more. And lvl 10 is also when the beast totem barb (which you should be, since it gives you both claws and rage) gets pounce, so that should boost you back up.Lets say you are a Beast totem barb and even assuming that you're allowed to use blood of the moon which I can't actually check on since it's not even close to a core series book and I don't have it.
You're still rolling at double the cost for the enhancement bonus on top of no amulet of natural armor which inherently gives you a to hit penalty and an AC penalty and you get half the value out of having haste that a Two hand weapon user gets you also don't get equivalent value out of power attack and the THF is getting 1.5 his str bonus on his attacks he can also easily get a 15+ crit range which means 1/4 of the time he's doing double damage and he gets around DR much more easily than you can and he actually increases his number of attacks as he levels while you will never go above 5+1 from haste.
IMO it's not nearly as OP as it sounds once you get past the early levels but this is just another reason to not allow splat books the balance is shoddy at best.
So at the higher levels when it is inefficient to give up iterative hands he could save the claws as a backup option and go with a greatsword for the two handed fighting and just have three extra natural attacks.
Hoof attacks are pretty ridiculous for a boar man though.
I was recently thumbing through the "Blood of the Moon" book and found a way to get 5 natural attacks by 2nd level.
If you are a Wereboar-kin when you transform you have one of a handful of abilities you can choose to have affect you. The two we are going to focus on are:
1) Gore attack that deals 1d6 points of damage
2) 2 hoof attacks that each deal 1d4 points of damage.
When you transform you can only choose one of your abilities to affect you unless you spend a feat then you can get a 2nd ability.
So I spend my first feat so that when I transform I can have 3 natural attacks.
Then my first two levels are as a ranger. I choose to take the Natural Weapon combat style so that I can get the Aspect of the Beast feat. I choose to get 2 primary claw attacks from the feat. At 2nd level I can get 5 attacks a round.
Does anyone else find this ridiculous?
I do, exactly what limbs are you putting these claws on?
I do, exactly what limbs are you putting these claws on?
I'd presume his hands and that his hooves are on his feet? 2 claws on your hands, one gore on your face/head(gore is weird), and 2 hooves on your feet.
I do, exactly what limbs are you putting these claws on?I'd presume his hands and that his hooves are on his feet? 2 claws on your hands, one gore on your face/head(gore is weird), and 2 hooves on your feet.
This.
Sure you can and assuming he's not investing in the natural attacks by buying an AoMF or anything else it would work but your damage with those 3 attacks will be at half strength with no magic bonus and no way to get around DR at which point you pretty much just wasted the feat you used to get it.
So at the higher levels when it is inefficient to give up iterative hands he could save the claws as a backup option and go with a greatsword for the two handed fighting and just have three extra natural attacks.Hoof attacks are pretty ridiculous for a boar man though.
Thinking on it more, ranger 2 to get the claws then multiattack and all rogue gives 5 attacks with sneak attack when flanking. Sneak attack can usually do fairly well for DR and the lack of iteratives for the medium advancement does not matter as much when you have five natural weapons all doing sneak attack.
Or forget the claws and go all rogue with two weapon fighting for iteratives plus offhand plus 3 naturals.
You can't bite and gore, they both occupy the face/head "slot".
Depends on how your DM rules it. There isn't any saying you can't and there are creatures who can. Fitting example of a creature who can do it is the Were boar, whom the skinwalker is actually emulating. The were boar can apparently shank you while biting you while ramming its tusk into you... I guess. Now add in helmet of the mammoth lords and try to imagine what's going on. Even more fun, with the rules you can play an assimar with a gore/bite/claw/claw/tail/wing/wing combination, and then pounce...
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You can't bite and gore, they both occupy the face/head "slot".
For the Aasimar, you have to be at least Level 13 to obtain the Metallic Wings Feat, since Angel Wings, needs at least level 11 to obtain since it is a General Feat.
Though if you really want, you can actually do Claw/Claw/Bite/Gore/Hoof/Hoof at Level 1. Be a Tengu with the Claw Attack Alternate Racial Trait. Take a level in White-Haired Witch and you also now have a Hair Natural Attack. 6 Attacks at Level 1.
The gore/hoof/hoof are from a race....which obviously won't combine with aasimar or tengu
Sure they would. Wereboar turns your feet into hooves (thus granting 2 hoove attacks). Aasimar grants you wings. Unless the process by which you obtain the hooves suppresses your wings (which I don't think it does), it's fine. The Tengu is a little suspicious because of where those claws are located (talons vs spurs vs hands) but one doesn't preclude the other because they are both typed racial.
He got the attacks from being a Wereboar-Kin....a type of Skinwalker which is a new race introduced in the Blood of the Moon book that are humans descended from Wereboar.
I remember when we called those guys shifters.
It works just like that.
It works just like that.
Looks good to me, too.
I know this is old, but I have a little doubt here, I'm planning a level 3 Wereboar Barbarian with Two Weapon Fighting and Extra Feature feats, +4 STR, +3 BAB and a long and a short sword. Does that mean he would have 5 attacks with a full-attack action?:
- long sword +5 (1D8+4) (BAB)
- short sword +5 (1D6+2) (TWF)
- hoof1 +2 (1D4+2) (foot)
- hoof2 +2 (1D4+2) (foot)
- gore +2 (1D6+2) (Extra Feature)And does this mean he will add itterative attacks with the weapons at higher levels? For instance level 20, Improved TWF, Greater TWF and Multiattack feats, same STR and +20/+15/+10/+5 BAB:
- long sword +22 (1D8+4) (BAB)
- long sword +17 (1D8+4) (BAB)
- long sword +12 (1D8+4) (BAB)
- long sword +7 (1D8+4) (BAB)
- short sword +22 (1D6+2) (TWF)
- short sword +17 (1D6+2) (Improved TWF)
- short sword +12 (1D6+2) (Greater TWF)
- hoof1 +22 (1D4+2) (foot)
- hoof2 +22 (1D4+2) (foot)
- gore +22 (1D6+2) (Extra Feature)I'm not sure if it works like that, please I need some help, thenks.
Erm, no. Hoofs and gores should be as secondary. +20. Secondary attacks get 1/2 str.
Half str is for dmg only +22 is the correct attack bonus.
They still take a -5 penalty on attack rolls.
Seneshaux,
Pardon, I thought you were saying +4 to str, ie, 14 str. My understanding was in error = ).
Regarding gore being a primary attack:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
From the CRB description of sneak attack: "The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."
If the word "anytime" doesn't change your GMs mind nothing else I say will help. And nothing specifies manufactured or natural weapons, again "anytime."
No, his GM is right.
The way the ruling has been laid down is that invisibility (etc) ends after the first attack and sneak cannot be applied to any subsequent attacks.
But at low levels, flanks works great.
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No, his GM is right.
The way the ruling has been laid down is that invisibility (etc) ends after the first attack and sneak cannot be applied to any subsequent attacks.But at low levels, flanks works great.
His GM is wrong. There's no rule that says only one Sneak attack per round.
Yes, if you have invisibility (not greater) on you, after the first attack you are visible and don't deny your target the DEX- bonus to
AC.
But in general, anytime (even with an AoO) you deny your target the Dex bonus (i.e. greater invisibility), or flank, you can deal sneak attack damage.
I'm not sure where you see a disagreement from what I said.
No, his GM is right.
The way the ruling has been laid down is that invisibility (etc) ends after the first attack and sneak cannot be applied to any subsequent attacks.But at low levels, flanks works great.
His GM is wrong. There's no rule that says only one Sneak attack per round.
Yes, if you have invisibility (not greater) on you, after the first attack you are visible and don't deny your target the DEX- bonus to
AC.
If the rogue isn't flanking or the target isn't flat-footed then once Invisibility wears off Sneak Attack no longer gets applied.