Animal Companions and Templates?

[Tharg The Pirate King]

This is a question that has come up in a game recently. Can a person get an animal Companion that has a template. IE: A Ranger (Falconer) takes a Vulture as an Animal Companion, can he instead of the Normal Vulture get an Advanced Vulture (using http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/advanced-creatu re-cr-1 ) or even adding The Beast of Chaos Template.(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/beast -of-chaos-cr-2-tohc).. or both having an Advanced Vulture Beast of Chaos? I see nothing in the rules that keep someone from doing this (other than GM choice)... The Creatures CR would be +3 higher.. however it gains no additional HD but its HD does become d10's. I have looked over everything and cant seem to find any rules in RAW stating a person cant do this.. but I am just making sure. While I know its Munchkin and overpowered.. my question is for if its legal... considering a GM allowing anything that is legal within the rules..

[Corbin Dallas]

The choices for animal companion must come from the listed tables for druid companion to be legal. Applying templates is not normally allowed. What you are suggesting would not be legal in organized play.
Now, I personally wonder about your use of the word "legal" especially after mentioning that you know it is "Munchkin and overpowered".
IMO you are looking for leverage over your GM.
I mean no disrespect, it just smells fishy...

[Benn Roe]

No, it's not legal without a feat or class ability (or the like) making it legal. Templates are only available for anything when explicitly mentioned as options or when a GM feels like adding them.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Benn Roe wrote:

No, it's not legal without a feat or class ability (or the like) making it legal. Templates are only available for anything when explicitly mentioned as options or when a GM feels like adding them.

However under the Animal Companion guideline on the site, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions) It does state this "....a ranger might discover a rare specimen of a favorite type of creature and want to claim it as his own..." a creature with a template would be considered a rare version of said creature. Thus implying that a person can use templates with an animal companion. The animal is listed on the ANimal Companion chart... while the template is not.. the animal does not change with the template added. In my example above.. an advanced Vulture is still a vulture.. in my argument its just a rare version of a vulture. Same may be said with the Beast of Chaos.. being an extremly rare specimen..

[Corbin Dallas]

What your listing comes from UC. In UC it mentions throughout the animal companions section "subject to GM approval".
You are not going to find rules "legal" evidence that states your GM has to allow it.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Corbin Dallas wrote:

What your listing comes from UC. In UC it mentions throughout the animal companions section "subject to GM approval".

You are not going to find rules "legal" evidence that states your GM has to allow it.

Im not looking for rules saying the GM has to allow it..... GM rules can do anything they want... What I am checking is that do the rules allow it.. excluding any GM... Do the rules appear to allow the templates? this is what I am seeking answers to. I would like a discussion on Templates and adding them to Animal Companions/PC's/Undead cohorts.. etc.. from all accounts is the rules written in a way to allow these to occur.. again ignoring what a GM could or could not rule... as we are all quite understand that a GM can do anything...

[Dragonchess Player]

The only RAW way I know of is the Celestial Servant aasimar feat, which adds the Celestial template to a companion, familiar, or mount.

[Corbin Dallas]

Ah, so you want to take the GM approval out of it, is that what you are saying?
The GM has final say over the rules. Sometimes referred to as Rule Zero.

Celestial Servant is for one specific template. It does not mean you can add any template without GM approval.

I think this topic would be better in the Advice thread or Homebrew thread.
Not the Rules Questions thread IMO.

[Samasboy1]

No, animal companions don't normally have templates. They have the exact stats listed for each companion animal.

A "rare specimen" could mean anything and doesn't specifically address applying a template to the animal companion. Maybe it is an albino, or an unusual breed, or a rare coloration. It doesn't have to be anything mechanical (though it can be with GM permission).

Celestial Servant is a specific way to apply a template to your animal companion. 11 levels of Paladin is another.

But the very fact that the feat and class ability exist to apply the template suggests that templates aren't applied without a similar ability.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Corbin Dallas wrote:

Ah, so you want to take the GM approval out of it, is that what you are saying?

The GM has final say over the rules. Sometimes referred to as Rule Zero.

Celestial Servant is for one specific template. It does not mean you can add any template without GM approval.

I think this topic would be better in the Advice thread or Homebrew thread.
Not the Rules Questions thread IMO.

No because its a rules question. I am only wanting to take out the GM approval because anymore people dont seem to answer questions. Most just go with the "well if your GM approves.. or Well if I was the GM I would or wouldnt"... its an answer that I want to toss out of the discussion so that we can discuss the rules and how we interpret them. As for the Celestial Servant.. I didnt know about that feat.. and it wouldnt be too hard to homebrew versions of that feat for different templates. But thats Homebrew, and im looking at the system as we have it. In Pathfinder the concept of adding templates does not give much in the way of rules for or against. I have seen templates are easy to add to undead, and they have it worked in the rules to allow templates at a cost of twice the normal HD when adding templates.. and there is no limit. And similar thread indicating that the Undead Cohort from the Undead Lord could be created using templates as well. So this is why Im looking at the ideas of Animal Companions with templates. It doesnt seem to far fetched that references to "rare" versions could be templates.. while it doesnt flat out say it, we dont have a rule not allowing it that I can find. The only thing I can seem to find is that as long as a GM is ok you can do it.. I was just hoping that there was more.. a definite yes (with gm approval) or a NO.. but as far as I know it doesnt exist as a definite answer. Unless someone has a link to an official NO answer.. thats what I was sorta hoping for...

[Mojorat]

What it mrans by rare specimine is likely that for animals not covered in the rules you can sometimes get an ac. I have a 3.5 module where you can befriend a fitefoot fennic and it suggests uding the stats for a dog. So if I were to run this modue today I would let a pc with an ac. Use small dog stats. There is a pfs scenario with sn owlbear companion udin a bear.

Basically you'll note neither ecample used a template. Unlesd your dm gives it to you or a feat gives it to you there are no yrmplated ac.

[Benn Roe]

I know "ask your GM" is a frustrating answer to hear, but in this case that is the answer. Templates are intended as a tool for GMs to fine-tune encounters. Could they be used for anything else? Absolutely. But they aren't intended for anything else, and without a GM's approval they aren't available for animal companions.