Mule Train Blues

[Urman]

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Caravans will start as ad hoc collections of characters, and iterate to ad hoc collections of characters and vehicles hauling stuff. Crowdforging will determine if and how more resources are allocated to systems related to caravans. But the initial design is one character with pockets full of stuff running through the wilderness trying to get from A to B often enough to show a profit.

Vic Wertz wrote:

4-legged critters are part of a future milestone. :-)

I mentioned it elsewhere, but will break it out in this new thread to discuss possible mechanics of pack mules. Mules and other pack animals could extend player capabilities as merchants or could be used to haul bulk cargoes more effectively. I think they could be a good first step for cargo hauling because you don't need a working cart model and a working animal model. You just need an animal model. You don't even need riding animations or mounted combat rules because it's just a pack animal.

[Urman]

Some skill, which I'll call Animal Packing, could be used to measure a character's capabilities. Improving the skill could improve one or more facets of the skill:

1. Number of mules controlled by the character. The character would use one or both hands to lead a number of mules. Like the bag system, where a backpack prevents the use of a cloak, and a waist pouch prevents equipping a belt, having leads in one's hand(s) would prevent equipping weapons or shields in the hand.
- Base: 1 lead in off hand controlling 1 mule
- Advancements: 1 lead in each hand; 2 leads in off hand; 2 in off/1 in main
- Max: 2 leads in each hand controlling 4 mules

2. Encumbrance per mule. For comparison, containers were sized from 3 to 27 encumbrance for each of the 3 container slots. Characters start at 20 and max at about 200 encumbrance.
- Base: 20 per mule.
- Advancements: (very open)
- Max: 50 per mule.
This would allow a character with max pack animal skills to effectively double the max carry capacity - at the cost of no equipped weapons *and* reduced speed. Each animal's inventory should be tracked separately in case the animal is killed or captured.

3. Speed. Mules are notoriously stubborn.
- Base: About 1/2 normal speed
- Advancements (open)
- Max: About 3/4 normal speed

The use of pack animals is limited - you need pack animals! so:
- Related Outpost: Mule ranch. Produces mules over time. Because of the animals' portability, animal producing outposts could be lucrative targets for raids.

- Related Settlement Structure: Stable. Provides the storage capability to hold the settlement's mules. This could also be the place to learn animal packing skills.

And with that, I open the floor for your ideas.

[AvenaOats]

Seems logical and practical and awesome to me. So I would hope Goblinworks think likewise.

I'd prefer heavy stuff being practical for a beast of burden than a biped. Horsepower.

- One question with using Mules: They'd need relatively flat and gentle incline. They can go up steeper but it's slow and going down steep they don't like that with heavy loads and loose footing - Stubborn = avoid breaking a leg as far as they are concerned!

[Bluddwolf]

Mule Blog Title: Simon Slick

Quote:

Simon Slick

There was a man whose name was Simon Slick.
He owned a mule with dreary eyes, and how that mule could kick.

He would node his head and wag his tail and greet you with a smile.
Then gently telescope his hind leg and raise you half a mile.
He was quick as lightning, he had an iron jaw.
He was just the thing to have around to tame your mother-in-law.

ah, ah, ah, ah

He kicked a tomascat over the fence, he pulverized a hog.
Dissected seven Chinamen and kicked a yeller dog.
He kicked the feathers off a goose, he broke an elephants back.
He stopped a Texas railroad train and kicked it off the tracks.

ah, ah, ah, ah

He stopped a steamboat with his head and kicked it out of sight.
He kicked a boarding house down at twelve o'clock one night.
While the boarders stood around without any cloths gasping for their breath.
He ran his hind leg down his throat and kicked himself to death.

ah, ah, ah, ah

Now onto the OP....

Great stuff!!

I would add a few things...

1. Mules or other pack animals can be killed, stolen, corpse looted.

2. Controlling pack animals requires an item, to be slotted and that item is crafted, has quality levels and can bear key words (connected to Animal Husbandry).

3. Pack Animals are part of the SAD calculation (however that works).

4. A stolen pack animal is less cooperative than one that has been owned for a while.

5. Pack animals require upkeep, unless you dispose (kill, sell or dismiss) of them after each use.

[Hardin Steele]

I don't see the pack animal being part of the SAD. But I do see the skill of the owner having an impact on the speed and cooperation of the creature. An older game, Two Worlds, used the character's horse as a loot haul, and it held A LOT! Your whole game changed when you could afford to buy a mount. You could take large amounts of loot back to town and make enough to do a major upgrade on your whole weapons and armor kit.

There should be several increasing higher levels of animals with accompanying attributes, matched by increasingly higher skill requirements for each mount, even each type of mount (mount, pack animal, whatever...if you can't ride, make 'em earn their upkeep).

Mules, pack horses, even some other non-traditional pack animals as the culture and lore of Golarion allows should be made available in a future iteration. Then we can graduate to carts, wagons and caravans!

[Urman]

I'm not sure why pack animals (and eventually wagons) wouldn't be stealable, or why they couldn't be demanded in a SAD. They're a renewable resource, possibly.

I would offer though that maybe only so many mules fit in a basic hideout. If you've got a ranch full of mules tucked away, it's probably as easy to hide as a ranch. Same with wagons; if you have a barn door sized door, it's a bit harder to hide than a small man-passage.

Oh, and to keep with the Golarian lore: I'm not sure about mules, but horses might be goblin magnets.

[Lam]

I do not see why mules can not meet normal speed.
Load and care and animal leadership may change this. A light weighted human may be able to run down a mule, wild, eating what it finds. But a human with grain should be able to fuel that animal for more.

And my player does have experience.

Lam

[Qallz]

I'd prefer to have ogres carry my stuff. They could really drag a big cart uphill...

[Wurner]

I like it but I think the carrying capacity of the mules in the OP is too low.

If maximum encumbrance of a fully trained mule transporter is twice that of a character optimized for the purpose, the mule transporter still transport goods at lower speed, with less defensive capabilities and with a big fat imaginary sign painted on their back saying "ROB ME, I'M TRANSPORTING VALUABLES!!"

For a beginner mule handler, less than a doubling of carrying capacity at the price of 1/2 the movement speed? Then why not just run the same distance twice without a mule, transporting the same amount (if not more) in the same time and splitting the risk.