Haunted Curse and Magical Items

[neferphras]

Core Rule book page 183 table 8-2 lists different types of Move action
in that chart you have 'Move' as a distinctly listed action from 'retrieve a stored item'

Some items, like Handy Haversack or a wrist sheath. Change the move type from 'retrieve stored item' to 'move' per that chart.

Haunted makes any Retrieve a stored item action take a standard action, which can not be prevented per the curse rules.

Does the curse, prevent the move action 'type' from changing on a wrist sheath for a Haunted oracle. Since the action is no longer, 'retrieve a stored item' this is unclear.

(thinking it does but....)

[Jonathan Dempe]

I assume it would I could be wrong it sounds like the curse would take priority over the item and would prevent the item from being retrieved at the move rate

[neferphras]

yeah i think so as well but since the actual movement type changes. i wanted to ask. I am following the sticky and flag this for an faq update. lets see what they say

[The Mighty Khan]

The issue I see is that the Haversack is its own entity with it's own saves, ac, etc. Can the curse, a passive ability, really suppress a magic item with no check or save? If the Oracle had an animated object to walk around and carry his pack and retrieve items for him, would the animated object be affected by the curse? How is the haversack any different? In this instance, the object and Haversack are both mindless magic items acting on orders.

PRD wrote:

"When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what a haversack contains. Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does."

The Oracle isn't "Retrieving any stored item from [his] gear..." The item is not packed away somewhere in a bulging saddlebag, it's in a magically enchanted, extra-dimensional space. That magic, not the Oracle, bumps the item to the top. The Oracle is just picking up an unattended item lying conveniently on the top of his Haversack. This requires the same action as picking up an unattended item lying conveniently on the ground: move action.

[partyrico]

But its ghosts and such messing with the oracle that prevent it from retrieving an item as a standard action. If you were to scan for undead while taking an item out, the item would still take a standard action. The oracle is still "retrieving a stored item from [his] gear". If the oracle uses unseen servant or a golem to give them stuff that is fine, but I think that's an awfully cheap way to get around the main drawback of a curse, especially since everyone is going to want to pick up one eventually anyway.

[blahpers]

The Mighty Khan wrote:

The Oracle isn't "Retrieving any stored item from [his] gear..." The item is not packed away somewhere in a bulging saddlebag, it's in a magically enchanted, extra-dimensional space. That magic, not the Oracle, bumps the item to the top. The Oracle is just picking up an unattended item lying conveniently on the top of his Haversack. This requires the same action as picking up an unattended item lying conveniently on the ground: move action.

Retrieving an item from a handy haversack is most definitely still "retrieving a stored item from gear". If you take the action "retrieve a stored item", it requires a minimum of a standard action. Other similar actions are not affected.

Apart from rules, here's some rationalization.

The handy haversack is not an entity; it is an object, a magic item. Being magic doesn't in itself make it unavailable as a catalyst for the oracle's curse. You might have some argument if the bag was intelligent, but that opens up a different can of worms.

Consider this: The oracle has a regular backpack that is completely empty except for a single, easy-to-grab item--say, a teapot. Even though this is the case, the oracle's curse still kicks in, as spirits cause the thing to, e.g., slip under some internal flap in the pack or snag on the way out. If that's the case, what good is the handy haversack's sorting ability?

If the oracle had an animated object to walk around and carry his pack and retrieve items for him, he wouldn't be using the "retrieve a stored item" action. He'd be accepting an item from the animated object. Oddly enough, there doesn't seem to be an action type defined for either giving someone an object or receiving an object from someone, so the GM would have to judge. But the curse would not affect this action.

An oracle's curse is supposed to be annoying and difficult to bypass. They aren't designed to be easily circumvented. My current character is a deaf oracle, and it's a hilarious at times and a nightmare at others. Haunted is probably the lowest-impact curse there is, but it's still a curse.

Some FAQs on the subject of what isn't affected by the curse:

Spell component pouch
Weapon sheathe

[ArmouredMonk13]

Haunted is meant to make it hard for you to draw and drop stuff in combat. Negating a deities power with 2k is a little hard to believe IMO.

[neferphras]

blahpers wrote:

The Mighty Khan wrote:

The Oracle isn't "Retrieving any stored item from [his] gear..." The item is not packed away somewhere in a bulging saddlebag, it's in a magically enchanted, extra-dimensional space. That magic, not the Oracle, bumps the item to the top. The Oracle is just picking up an unattended item lying conveniently on the top of his Haversack. This requires the same action as picking up an unattended item lying conveniently on the ground: move action.

Retrieving an item from a handy haversack is most definitely still "retrieving a stored item from gear". If you take the action "retrieve a stored item", it requires a minimum of a standard action. Other similar actions are not affected.

Apart from rules, here's some rationalization.

The handy haversack is not an entity; it is an object, a magic item. Being magic doesn't in itself make it unavailable as a catalyst for the oracle's curse. You might have some argument if the bag was intelligent, but that opens up a different can of worms.

Consider this: The oracle has a regular backpack that is completely empty except for a single, easy-to-grab item--say, a teapot. Even though this is the case, the oracle's curse still kicks in, as spirits cause the thing to, e.g., slip under some internal flap in the pack or snag on the way out. If that's the case, what good is the handy haversack's sorting ability?

If the oracle had an animated object to walk around and carry his pack and retrieve items for him, he wouldn't be using the "retrieve a stored item" action. He'd be accepting an item from the animated object. Oddly enough, there doesn't seem to be an action type defined for either giving someone an object or receiving an object from someone, so the GM would have to judge. But the curse would not affect this action.

An oracle's curse is supposed to be annoying and difficult to bypass. They aren't designed to be easily circumvented. My current character is a deaf oracle, and it's a hilarious at...

I think you are missing the core book reference. Take a look a the chart i referenced to and you will see what i mean. There are many 'move type ' actions. One is 'Move' another is retrieve item from inventory. The haversack change the Move type action from retrieve item from inventory to Move. That what it does , specifically. so your statement is actually wrong. Getting something from a haversack, is, by definition, not a retrieve item from inventory. That is just a fact of the Haversack. Now the question is, should that matter for the curse, i dont think it should, thus the thread and the FAQ update... hopefully someday.

[bbangerter]

neferphras wrote:

The haversack change the Move type action from retrieve item from inventory to Move.

All the following are move actions per the table in the CRB

Move
Control a frightened mount
Direct or redirect an active spell
Draw a weapon
Load a hand crossbow or light crossbow
Open or close a door
Mount/dismount a steed
Move a heavy object
Pick up an item
Sheathe a weapon
Stand up from prone
Ready or drop a shield
Retrieve a stored item

Retrieve a stored item isn't its own special non-move action, it is a subset of possible move actions. The haversack does not change any of this, it still requires the move (subset retrieve an item) action, as opposed to a standard, swift, free, or immediate action. The benefit is that normally retrieving an item provokes an AoO, the haversack eliminates this penalty.

Whether the haversack specific rule of retrieving an item taking a move action takes precedence over the oracle haunted curse of retrieving items taking a standard action could be debated, but RAI is the curse takes precedence (okay, that is my opinion that that is RAI, but if the dev's ever rule on this particular corner case issue I'm 100% confident I'm right).