Skeletal flyers


Rules Questions


I have read about skeletal dragons flying. Is this possible? I can see zombie dragons still being able to fly due to flesh on the wings but how could a skeletal flyer still fly? Technically the Ravener can fly but that is just in the rules makeup for it.

Anyone help here? Or is it a matter of a permanent fly spell or similar enchantment?


Magic.

From the skeleton template:

Speed: A winged skeleton can't use its wings to fly. If the base creature flew magically, so can the skeleton. All other movement types are retained.


According to the Zombie and Skeleton templates, zombies can still fly, but skeletons can only still fly if the creature did so magically. Dragons do so naturally, so skeleton dragons cannot fly.


True skeletal dragons don't fly, but if you want a magical flying skeletal dragon, I wouldn't overthink it.

It's a magical game that imagines a magical world with magical creatures. On earth, if a winged "dragon" existed, it couldn't fly while it was alive - not enough wingspan for its ridiculously massive body - it would need wings so big that each would be the size of a football field.

So if you try to put too much physics into the game, it falls apart. Such as, how does a skeletal dragon have a breath weapon with no lungs? How can it see with no eyeballs? How can it hear with no nervous system to transmit auditory impulse from its ear bones to its non-existent brain? Etc.

It's magic.

Side note: The original "dracolich" was undead, but not skeletal. Not zombie, either, since it was intelligent and a spellcaster and moved at dragon speed rather than zombie speed. It was its own unique kind of undead, and still had fleshy wings that could fly. It was later drawn as a skeleton in the first module or novel (don't remember which came first) but it kept its abilities (and gained new ones, such as resistance to sharp weapons) - that's when we threw aerodynamics completely out the window with its skeletal wings.


Note that people referring to skeletal dragons could possibly refer to the "Skeletal Dragon" template from 3.5's Draconomicon rather than the "Skeleton" template from the Bestiary. Of course, that template specifically said that the dragon lost its fly speed, so flying skeletal dragons wouldn't be possible in either case.


I suppose if a necromancer created the skeletal creature, he could also fashion a tarp over the wing bones to simulate flesh. A skeletal creature would logically be lighter than its fleshy counterpart, so it shouldn't take much effort to keep it afloat. I'm picturing a dragon-sized kite.

Scarab Sages

Remember that "normal" skeletons lose their minds during reanimation, and thus spellcasting abilities therewith. If the "skeletal" dragons in question are among the exceptions, they would retain the considerable spellcasting potential of their living forms. A simple Fly spell isn't much to muster for such a creature to retain the flight it enjoyed before it assumed room temperature. I'd have to interview and possibly dissect one to answer you better.


DM_Blake wrote:


Such as, how does a skeletal dragon have a breath weapon with no lungs?

Does a skeletal dragon retain its breath weapon? My DM has said no but trying to see if there is anything to say otherwise.

My necromancer has the Skull Lord feat which reduces Skeletal control/animation of skeletal undead cost by 75% which is great if they are skeletal. So Im thinking of animating the dragon as a bloody skeleton as opposed to the fast zombie. The fast zombie would maintain flight and have an extra attack while the bloody skeleton would be pretty much indestructible (except by holy damage).

Thoughts?


Have you read the Skeleton Template? If you're going to create skeletons, you better understand the templates. Here's the important bits relevant to this question:

"Attacks: A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can't work without flesh...

Special Attacks: A skeleton retains none of the base creature's special attacks."


I'm sorry if my first post didn't reflect the rules entirely. I initially answered with the RAW and then quickly diverged into what basically meant "do what you want and call it magic".

The skeleton template is very specific about all this stuff. A skeletal dragon is not much more dangerous than a skeletal T-Rex, more or less.

The iconic "dracolich" is much more than a skeleton, just like a "lich" is much more than a skeleton. So if you want a magical critter that looks like a skeletal dragon but has all the dragon's abilities (flight, spells, breath weapon, etc.), then Animate Dead and the Skeleton Template will not get you what you want - you'll have to go off the reservation and make houserules for it (I think - maybe some splat book has the rules for doing this).

Or, just use the Lich template and apply it to a dragon, then just fluff its appearance with "skeletal" which is only fluff and changes nothing - but that's hard to do with just a simple Animate Dead spell.

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