UCam Kingdom Building: Failed Income Checks?


Rules Questions


During step 4 of the income phase (collecting taxes), the players "Attempt an Economy check, divide the result by 3 (round down), and add a number of BP to your Treasury equal to the result." My question is, does the Economy check have to be successful (vs. the kingdom's control DC) to get the BP? The text just says to make a check. It doesn't say anything about it needing to exceed the control DC.


Kingdom Terminology

Control DC: Some kingdom actions require a check (1d20 + modifiers) to succeed—this is known as a control check. The base DC for a control check is equal to 20 + the kingdom's Size in hexes + the total number of districts in all your settlements + any other modifiers from special circumstances or effects. Unless otherwise stated, the DC of a kingdom check is the Control DC

Kingdom Check: A kingdom has three attributes: Economy, Loyalty, and Stability. Your kingdom's initial scores in each of these attributes is 0, plus modifiers for kingdom alignment, bonuses provided by the leaders, and any other modifiers. Many kingdom actions and events require you to attempt a kingdom check, either using your Economy, Loyalty, or Stability attribute (1d20 + the appropriate attribute + other modifiers). You cannot take 10 or take 20 on a kingdom check. Kingdom checks automatically fail on a natural 1 and automatically succeed on a natural 20.

Perhaps I am wrong but as I understand the above if you must attempt a check it is against the control DC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is something that is not abundantly clear from the rules, but it is something that can easily be inferred.

The answer is that a successful Economy check against the Kingdom Control DC increases the treasury by the result of the check divided by three. It is absolutely possible to fail the check (either by rolling under the DC or rolling a natural 1), and get no income from taxes.

This is inferred in two places in the collecting taxes phase:

1) "Attempt". If it's not possible to fail, this is absolutely the wrong word to use.
2) "Economy check". As mentioned above, this makes it a check against the Control DC. If it is not possible to fail, the correct term would be "Economy roll".

So, the "no failure" version of this passage would actually read "Make an Economy roll, divide the result..."

It doesn't, so I read it as needing a successful check before anything is added to the treasury.


In the Issue Edicts example it states that an average roll would result in failure and no income for the economy check. While an example is not a replacement for a rule it should help the lack of clarity in the rules.

Ultimate Campaign p207 wrote:
Looking ahead to the Income phase, Jessica realizes that an average roll for her Economy check would be a failure (10 on the 1d20 + 52 Economy – 4 Unrest = 58, less than the Control DC of 60), which means there’s a good chance the kingdom won’t generate any BP this turn.

- Gauss


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks, Gauss. I knew there was something else that made me believe that to be the case - really should have pulled my copy of UCam off the shelf to check.


NP, it helps that I went into that issue already, I just searched my own posts to find the page number. :)

- Gauss


Just a note from the control dc definition I copy-pasted in post 2:

"Unless otherwise stated, the DC of a kingdom check is the Control DC"

So, lack of explicitly stating laxk of explicitly stating a need to exceed a control dc or that there is one defaults to the above as I see it.

Contributor

This is why your #1 goal when purchasing buildings and Kingdom Improvements for your settlement should be A) make sure your modifier equals your DC at minimum and B) make sure your modifier is equal to your Consumption x 3 minimum.

That way, you never fail at making money and you always make enough to pay your taxes.


Thanks for the help, everyone! That's what I thought but I wasn't sure.


If you fail the Income check due to rolling a natural 1 would terrain improvements such as Mines and Sawmills still create income?


Devilkiller,

My interpretation is that while they are part of the Collect Taxes phase they are not part of the Economy check so yes, they still create income.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While I could see an argument either way, I agree with Gauss. They do not provide a bonus to the check to collect taxes, they provide a bonus to the result. I can't think of anything else in the game that they're analogous to (which is something of a shame), though, and the examples are slightly unclear since they only refer to earning nothing on a failed check, whilst not mentioning those improvements at all.


Here is my logic (expanded):

Sawmill wrote:
Effect: Stability +1, earn +1 BP per turn when collecting taxes during the Income phase.

Income Phase has 4 steps. One step is "Collect Taxes".

Collect Taxes wrote:
Step 4—Collect Taxes: Attempt an Economy check, divide the result by 3 (round down), and add a number of BP to your Treasury equal to the result.

There is nothing in the Collect Taxes section that states you add to or do not add to the Economy Check or the result of the Economy check.

Thus, the only rule covering this is the Sawmill Effect line which states that when collecting taxes (a step) you get +1 BP that turn.

No statement that you only get +1 BP if your collecting taxes economy check was successful.


Hi, I know this is an old thread... but what happens if the economy check is a nat 1? Technically that's an automatic failure, however a kingdom with a consumption of 20 and an economy of 60 should be able to cover even a disastrously incompetent set of tax collectors for one month if you ignore the failure (based on the divide by 3 rule).

Does that mean that on average, a kingdom will not generate income (besides from specific buildings) on average once every two years, and can face some really bad luck with the die rolls despite their careful planning to make sure they have a strong and stable economy?


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Yes, occasionally the kingdom won't generate any income from collecting taxes for the month.
Hopefully the ruling council realized this may happen and has some money saved up in the coffers. (Or has enough money from the terrain improvements to cover the difference.)

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