Taldan Elephants

[rgrove0172]

Does anybody else find it odd that there are Elephants wandering around Taldor? (Since the domesticate them and use them in their military) I know it mentions that lions are a problem there too so is Taldor essentially Africa with a Byzantine/Feudal culture?

Kind of a weird mix. Most of the trappings give it a European feel but the random encounters for the vast grasslands (or should I say savannah) are full of lion prides, herds of antelope and zebra, water buffalo and of course, elephants!

What a strange blend.

[Gorbacz]

Not any more strange than T-rexes sharing the same timeframe with primates.

[William Ronald]

I recall that there were elephants in the Atlas Mountains in Africa in Roman times, so maybe some could have been imported from northern Garund. Or some may have been brought from Vudra by Jalmeray and presented to Taldan rulers as gifts --- that got out. Also, add in magic and a lot can happen.

[rgrove0172]

I considered that, elephant transplants I mean instead of being indigenous to the region. It would make more sense as Taldor appears to be a bit too far north for an African ecology. Still, its not far off from northern India so, it could happen. The presence of Lions is clear in the source material so it kind of points that way.

[William Ronald]

rgrove0172 wrote:

I considered that, elephant transplants I mean instead of being indigenous to the region. It would make more sense as Taldor appears to be a bit too far north for an African ecology. Still, its not far off from northern India so, it could happen. The presence of Lions is clear in the source material so it kind of points that way.

Lions did have a larger range in ancient times, so some could have made it into Taldor from Qadira.

[MMCJawa]

Asian Elephants existed as far west as Lebanon I believe, up to biblical times. And during the Pleistocene their would have been extinct elephants throughout the region shared by Byzantium.

[Matthew Morris]

Don't forget the simple possibility of summon nature's ally spells that might not have ended correctly. You summon a pride of lions, and they get transplanted.

"Um, Bob, shouldn't your lions have disappeared by now?"

[rgrove0172]

Matthew, your right of course, there are endless possibilties when you consider magic. I tend to approach my game from a very low-fantasy end and typically dont even think of things like Prince Stavian ordering the annual transport of elephants to the Imperial training yards from a circle of wizards.

[Jeven]

Taldor borders Qadira which is sort of like Persia, and ancient Persia had war elephants.

[rgrove0172]

Exactly Jeven, and yet war elephants are mentioned in Taldor, not Qadira. Wierd.

[MMCJawa]

rgrove0172 wrote:

Exactly Jeven, and yet war elephants are mentioned in Taldor, not Qadira. Wierd.

Not mentioned doesn't mean doesn't exist

[Jeven]

rgrove0172 wrote:

Exactly Jeven, and yet war elephants are mentioned in Taldor, not Qadira. Wierd.

Probably not so common in Qadira which is more of a desert like the Arabian peninsular.

But to the east of both Qadira and Taldor are lusher parts of the Keleshite Empire which presumably resemble Persia and the Caspian Sea area. I assume the Casmaron Sea is like the Caspian.

Taldor is sort of placed on the Golarion map like Turkey. So its at the crossroads of Europe-Arabia-Persia type regions and war elephants could come from the Persian bit.

[Samasboy1]

Taldor, Echoes of Glory specifies that modern Taldor elephants are descended from specimens captured in Garundi thousands of years ago by the Armies of Exploration (pg 12, Taldan Horse).

Lions were native to southern Europe until the sometime in the 1st Century BC.

[rgrove0172]

Good catch on that entry in Echoes of Glory, I totally forgot that. So they were originally domestic but some probably escaped etc. and not wander the plains, but probably not in great numbers.

[Jon Goranson]

I get the feeling that the nobles of Taldor send out expeditions for strange and exotic animals to be brought back. If they happen to have a military use, so much the better!

Or, if possible, after all of the Armies of Exploration sent such specimens back, various groups worked to keep them around, either by domestication or by introducing them to the wild.

Just my coppers on it.

[FrankManic]

At various times both elephants and lions have lived in Europe and similar climates. Pathfinder and D&D settings typically throw every species that ever lived in a box and pull them out more or less at random so having temperate forest elephants or lions, while strange from the perspective of Earth, is not without Earthly precedent. The last Mammoths almost survived to the beginning of written history!

TLDR; I whip my Holocene back and forth!