Radiance sword (possible spoiler)


Wrath of the Righteous

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James Jacobs wrote:
King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:
So what happens if a paladin of Irori takes up Radiance?

There are others who could run into problems, too.

Like a paladin of Kurgess, for example. Because then it turns into a javelin. And by that a fire and forget missile weapon.
Lol, I hadn't considered of that. It would seem the Dev's didn't much much thought into Radiance's transformation quality. Not casting judgement, of course. Still, perhaps it would have been better to ignore that particular aspect.

The devs (me) thought quite a lot about it... and the idea of forcing a paladin of anyone other than Iomedae to use something they likely wouldn't use felt worse than making the weapon into something that would perhaps be awkward for unanticipated paladins. Since those questions I can answer easier here.

The "Turns into the deity's favored weapon" is really just short hand for "Metagame this thing to turn into the type of weapon that the paladin in your group...

That's good to know. I like the thought you put into it. I really do. I like the idea of a weapon that sort of customizes itself to fit the wielder.

Although it is that very quality that has kind of bummed me out, seeing as my own character is now using glaive (Shelyn), and weapon to which he isn't suited and not very fond of; my characters preferred weapon is the greataxe. Unfortunately, my DM is a 100% by the raw sort, so I'm stuck with it. :p


What if you wind up with a party that doesn't have a single paladin in it? I've got a cleric of Ragathiel and a cavalier, fwiw:)

Scarab Sages

Then you either have
A) A pretty masterwork cold iron longsword
B) A need to rework Radiance
C) Pick the player that already has divine or martial leanings and have the sword resonate with them, but never get better than a +2 Cold Iron sword until they take Paladin levels. (A holy avenger in the hands of a non-Paladin is only +2)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
J. Christopher Harris wrote:
What if you wind up with a party that doesn't have a single paladin in it? I've got a cleric of Ragathiel and a cavalier, fwiw:)

i imagine i would have the same issues, we are not a pious bunch (usually our healer is a bard or alchemist with infusion discovery) we've never even had a cleric in my group much less a paladin (tho for Skull & Shackles my wife has made a Gnome Anti-paladin of Norgorber, haven't played it yet, but will soon:)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Don't forget: This is a guideline. You can rework Radiance so it works for non-Paladins if you so desire. And it may be that Radiance still has effective abilities even when used by a non-Paladin and could fully awaken anyway. We won't know 'til Book 6.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

That's good to know. I like the thought you put into it. I really do. I like the idea of a weapon that sort of customizes itself to fit the wielder.

Although it is that very quality that has kind of bummed me out, seeing as my own character is now using glaive (Shelyn), and weapon to which he isn't suited and not very fond of; my characters preferred weapon is the greataxe. Unfortunately, my DM is a 100% by the raw sort, so I'm stuck with it. :p

Can't really help you if your GM isn't flexible, alas. At the very least, if you've already spent feats on the greataxe, he should let you at least re-train those feats for the glaive, I would think.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

J. Christopher Harris wrote:
What if you wind up with a party that doesn't have a single paladin in it? I've got a cleric of Ragathiel and a cavalier, fwiw:)

Radiance is intended to be a paladin's weapon. If you don't have a paladin in the party, consider giving it to Irabeth? You can certainly change the weapon's flavor so that it works for a cleric or other character, but it still won't work as good for them in the end unless you make more changes to what it eventually transforms into.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

what about making Radiance a Sword of the Planes eventually instead of a Holy Avenger? or even a Vorpal weapon?

i imagine both of those would work quite well in this AP:)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Honestly, you don't need to turn Radience into a Sword of the Planes because...

SPOILER ALERT:
...there's one in some loot you can find in Demon's Heresy.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Yeah... the only way to keep the rod is to not finish the adventure, sort of... so no. The expectation is that the PCs use the rod on the fragment, and thus destroy the rod.

Spare the rod, spoil the villain.

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:
So what happens if a paladin of Irori takes up Radiance?

There are others who could run into problems, too.

Like a paladin of Kurgess, for example. Because then it turns into a javelin. And by that a fire and forget missile weapon.
Lol, I hadn't considered of that. It would seem the Dev's didn't much much thought into Radiance's transformation quality. Not casting judgement, of course. Still, perhaps it would have been better to ignore that particular aspect.

The devs (me) thought quite a lot about it... and the idea of forcing a paladin of anyone other than Iomedae to use something they likely wouldn't use felt worse than making the weapon into something that would perhaps be awkward for unanticipated paladins. Since those questions I can answer easier here.

Irori: Radiance (aka You the GM) know what the paladin of Irori's preferred weapon is. In most cases, that means the sword would transform into whatever monk weapon that player prefers (especially if, say, he's already picked up something like Weapon Focus for that weapon). Otherwise, another option is to have the sword become handwraps or something that simply enhance his unarmed strikes. It's a little bit unusual, but so are paladins of Irori.

Kurgess: Again, if this paladin has a melee weapon she prefers, it's fine to let Radiance become that weapon. It's also fine to let Radiance become a javelin. In this case... I'd consider giving it the returning quality for free, to offset the fact that the paladin's losing out on iterative attacks with the weapon. Alternately, I'd let the paladin use this particular javelin as a melee weapon. But the BEST BET HERE is to do the same as above and let Radiance turn into whatever weapon the paladin of Kurgess favors.

The "Turns into the deity's favored weapon" is really just short hand for "Metagame this thing to turn into the type of weapon that the paladin in your group...

Here's another question along this line. I have a Paladin in my group who worships Erastil and Iomedae, and since he is mainly a ranged guy, Radiance turns into a longbow. Now, the question came up the other night of whether or not it could also turn into a longsword for the few times he might get stuck in melee since he also worships Iomedae. We discussed it and came to the agreement that as a full-round action it could transform into a longsword. What do you guys think? Does it seem overpowered to let it change into multiple forms? It won't be very often, and I trust the player not to abuse it.

Scarab Sages

I wasn't aware Paladins could revere two different gods to gain their class abilities.

Regardless though, you're tossing an altered version of the Transformative ability. Trading out the ability to swap between any melee class of weapons for two specific weapons (I'd also tie it down to where it doesn't get to become a composite [Whatever my strength bonus currently is]) and a slower transformation.

It's not a bad thing, the main consideration is not abuse, but the rest of your party. Do they mind that the Paladin is getting a nifty highly magical sword and bow with extra benefits on top of what Radiance normally will end up getting? If the rest of the party doesn't mind, I'd say go ahead.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Caedrus wrote:

Here's another question along this line. I have a Paladin in my group who worships Erastil and Iomedae, and since he is mainly a ranged guy, Radiance turns into a longbow. Now, the question came up the other night of whether or not it could also turn into a longsword for the few times he might get stuck in melee since he also worships Iomedae. We discussed it and came to the agreement that as a full-round action it could transform into a longsword. What do you guys think? Does it seem overpowered to let it change into multiple forms? It won't be very often, and I trust the player not to abuse it.

I would say pick one weapon and stick with it. Gives Radiance a stronger look and feel, in my opinion. And keeps the weapon in line with its original intent.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Heh. James ninjaed me. I have to agree with him. He's got a great weapon the way it is. Having it transform just overdoes things. And there are other great swords out there.

Scarab Sages

There are massive spoilers here for books 1-3 about radiance.

Spoiler:
Ok I am running Wrath right now and my players are in book 2. My paladin worships Falayna. Now I have some confusion about the upgrading of Radiance. In book 1 it is a +1 Legendary Cold Iron Longsword.

In Book 2:

it says if you cleanse the temple it upgrades to +2 and at the end of the adventure it upgrades to +3

Now in book 3 it says:

that once you find the armor if you donate or use it radiance functions as a +3 holy weapon.

So if the Paladin got the bonus +1 from cleansing would it act as a +4 holy weapon? or is the +3 holy intended with the previous things in mind?

and once it finally becomes a full fledged Holy Avenger which is listed as a +5 Holy Weapon that can cast dispel magic once per round would it then be +6 holy avenger?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Spaarky wrote:

There are massive spoilers here for books 1-3 about radiance.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
By the end of book 2 it's a +3 weapon.

By the ind of adventure 3 it's a +3 holy weapon; it doesn't go to +4 at that time.

Essentially, in both books, it gains a +2 equivalent boost.


Spaarky wrote:

There are massive spoilers here for books 1-3 about radiance.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
The wording at the end of book two says that "in the hands of a paladin the enhancement bonus is 1 higher than normal"
Scarab Sages

Ok,

Spoiler:
so essentially it is considered that the paladin is going to accomplish these tasks and it automatically assumes this will happen in each book. Thanks James and Nathan for the clarification


It would seem like a terrible waste but if a non-paladin used radiance it would function as a masterwork cold iron longsword correct?

Scarab Sages

Correct. But keep track of it, as the upgrades do eventually empower it even for non-paladin use.


Why would it do that? It needs to be bonded to a mythic paladin before it can regain its power.

Scarab Sages

No, because it's immediately a +1 weapon when a paladin picks it up, it does not require waiting until the end of Book 1 to gain that ability.

Radiance is still a Legendary weapon, regardless of who is wielding it. And non-bonded, non-mythic PCs can still use the Surge ability of a Mythic Weapon so long as it doesn't have the Exclusive Bond ability.

So long as you're fufilling Radiance's requirements, Upgradability kicks off.


I'm a little confused on the actual bonding. The item description is kind of confusing. I'm on my phone on my way to my session. The weapon automatically bonds to a paladin but in the descprition it says this happens during a curtain fight. So how and what is this bond. Bond is used as fluff, the paladin bonded weapon class ability, or something else. I need a little help. How does the weapon function as soon as its found by a paly? What exactly else happens during the quoted battle? Was hoping to get a response befor my game as it will be found, or not this session.

Scarab Sages

When the party finds the sword and a paladin uses it, it is a +1 cold iron longsword.

It Mythic Bonds as a Legendary Item at the climax of the fight in the Gray Garrison.

However, if the GM allows it Radiance is STILL a mythic legendary item with two uses of it's legendary Surge at +1d6 a day, usable by non-legendary folk.

The bond is per Legendary Items, not the Paladin Bond class ability.


Here, you all may be amused by this. We just picked up this sword in our game and there is a good chance that my character is going to wield it. However, he's going to be a Paladin/Silver Dragon Disciple... so he actually worships Apsu. Apsu's favored weapon is a bite attack, lol!

Currently, my GM and I are pondering having it work/look something like shyvana's weird dragon bite hand weapon from League of Legends, or maybe just be a helmet that enhances his bite when he has one.

Scarab Sages

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Nah, you just now have gold plated, cold iron teeth.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Matrix Dragon wrote:

Here, you all may be amused by this. We just picked up this sword in our game and there is a good chance that my character is going to wield it. However, he's going to be a Paladin/Silver Dragon Disciple... so he actually worships Apsu. Apsu's favored weapon is a bite attack, lol!

Currently, my GM and I are pondering having it work/look something like shyvana's weird dragon bite hand weapon from League of Legends, or maybe just be a helmet that enhances his bite when he has one.

And that's exactly why we give Apsu (and Dahak) two different types of favored weapon; in Apsu's case, the quarterstaff. Radiance would thus turn into a quarterstaff unless your GM wanted to do something weird.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lochar wrote:
Nah, you just now have gold plated, cold iron teeth.

Isn't that a bond villain?


James Jacobs wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Here, you all may be amused by this. We just picked up this sword in our game and there is a good chance that my character is going to wield it. However, he's going to be a Paladin/Silver Dragon Disciple... so he actually worships Apsu. Apsu's favored weapon is a bite attack, lol!

Currently, my GM and I are pondering having it work/look something like shyvana's weird dragon bite hand weapon from League of Legends, or maybe just be a helmet that enhances his bite when he has one.

And that's exactly why we give Apsu (and Dahak) two different types of favored weapon; in Apsu's case, the quarterstaff. Radiance would thus turn into a quarterstaff unless your GM wanted to do something weird.

Somehow I missed the quarterstaff one. D: Thanks for pointing that out.

Though, I'm going to hope that my GM still goes for 'something weird' so that the weapon will stay relevant when I start focusing on natural attacks ;)

Scarab Sages

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captain yesterday wrote:
Lochar wrote:
Nah, you just now have gold plated, cold iron teeth.
Isn't that a bond villain?

Even Bond Villians can be redeemed!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lochar wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Lochar wrote:
Nah, you just now have gold plated, cold iron teeth.
Isn't that a bond villain?
Even Bond Villians can be redeemed!

i did not say they could not, just pointing it out:) still as a fun exercise someone name one bond villain that has been redeemed:) $5 says its just women:) if any


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According to the interwebz:

Anya Amasova (Barbara Bach)

Lupe Lamora (Talisa Soto)

Tiffany Case (Jill St. John)

Kara Milovy (Maryam d'Abo)

Someone give him his 5 bucks.


captain yesterday wrote:
Lochar wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Lochar wrote:
Nah, you just now have gold plated, cold iron teeth.
Isn't that a bond villain?
Even Bond Villians can be redeemed!
i did not say they could not, just pointing it out:) still as a fun exercise someone name one bond villain that has been redeemed:) $5 says its just women:) if any

Jaws in Moonraker?


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For those who are curious, for the Apsu version of Radiance we settled upon it turning into a quarterstaff that also magically enhances the bite attacks of the bearer. Pretty good flavor fit for a Dragon Disciple :D


So just to be sure, even if a player acquire that weapon, in order to upgrade it fully (not talking about the Holy Avenger part, but the legendary abilities part), he still need to take the "Legendary Item" path ability three times?

The fact that he acquired the item "for free" does not save him the first legendary item path ability, so that he would only need to take 2 (at tier 3 and 6) instead of 3 to max it fully?

Also I am quite confused about the fact that the sword has two use of legendary power, do they add to further increase in legendary power if the player take Legendary item, or are they already part of the total (8 max, by taking "Powerful" three times). Basically 8 would be the max not 10?

Basically what radiance gives is a free "upgrade to holy avenger" tied to story, but it does not save the first "legendary item" path ability? It would seem logical to me that it would save the first "Legendary Item" ability, but I have a feeling it is not the case here.

Dark Archive

Question about Radiance and Yaniel:

So I was under the impression that Radiance was a Unique Holy Avenger, From the sound of the text it does not continue to upgrade in power as it is fully fledged holy avenger after midnight isles. Will it continue to get stronger in the next ap? I am hoping that it continues to grow in power but if it does not thats cool. It was also cool how it grew in power, I love magic items that do that.

On that note I thought that Yaniel was Mythic to but in her stats she is just a normal paladin. was she mythic?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd like to know if there was no Mythic Paladin in the group, but they used the sword anyway, if it would become a Mythic Holy Avenger if given back to Yaniel along with her armor. I think it would be a rather nice gesture, especially as there's only a small chance one of the players among my two groups would play a Paladin in that case (she likes bards and paladins, and seeing she's getting a Cohort Paladin in the Runelords game, I suspect she might go for Bard next time around).


James Jacobs wrote:
Cat-thulhu wrote:

Yeah it gets better with each adventure it seems. What I'm confused/uncertain about is...

Say I'm a paladin and I pick up radiance. As I play it increases in power in accordance to the AP. Now if I decide to also make it my legendary item will it gain ALL of the benefits and abilities of a legendary weapon ON TOP of the abilities it gets in the AP.

Sorry if I'm being particularly dull but I seem to have got stuck on this issue and for some reason can't sort it out myself.

Correct. If you make it your legendary weapon, it gains all those powers plus the ones you earn for it during the adventure itself.

James, I am still a little confused

Radiance:

In addition, Radiance is a legendary item (Pathfinder RPG Mythic Adventures 1 69) that bonds with a mythic paladin as soon as it is wielded in combat-in this adventure, Radiance bonds if a paladin uses it in the {EDITED}. The weapon has two daily uses of legendary power that recharge each day, but does not currently possess any legendary attributes, for it has yet to be wielded by a mythic paladin. As Radiance has its own ability to grow in power, it cannot be given the upgradable legendary item ability.

The description of Radiance seems to indicate you can not make the sword the subject of the Legendary Item Path Ability.

If it Bonds with a Paladin, that would also prevent said PC from using that ability on another item, as you can only have 1 bonded item.

Can you help me sort out where the confusion is here?


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JustsomeYahoo wrote:

The description of Radiance seems to indicate you can not make the sword the subject of the Legendary Item Path Ability.

If it Bonds with a Paladin, that would also prevent said PC from using that ability on another item, as you can only have 1 bonded item.

Can you help me sort out where the confusion is here?

I asked James Jacob and got the following answer:

James Jacob wrote:
The PC still needs to purchase that first Legendary Item ability as per normal. The benefits are that if they choose Radiance, it'll upgrade on its own, leaving them free to choose other advancements for the weapon other than mere magical enhancement upgrades.

So not only you can select Radiance for the legendary item ability, but you MUST do it if you want to add Legendary Abilities to it.

Otherwise it will simply upgrade by itself toward an Holy Avenger but won't get any legendary abilities.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Yeah, what Lauraliane said. If you don't get the Legendary Item ability, Radiance still upgrades to holy avenger as detailed in the adventures, but that's it. If you want to take full advantage of the Legendary Item stuff, you need to buy that ability as normal.


Ok, but the descriptive text specifically says the sword cannot be upgraded by that ability.

As Radiance has its own ability to grow in power, it cannot be given the upgradable legendary item ability.

or does that mean something else? I thought I had my arms around the mythic stuff.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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JustsomeYahoo wrote:

Ok, but the descriptive text specifically says the sword cannot be upgraded by that ability.

As Radiance has its own ability to grow in power, it cannot be given the upgradable legendary item ability.

or does that mean something else? I thought I had my arms around the mythic stuff.

That means that it basically has the "upgradable" legendary item ability for free; you can't give it the ability again, since it does this already. You can give it any of the other legendary item abilities you want. Basically, if you choose Radiance as your legendary item, you gain "upgradable" as a bonus legendary item ability without having to pay for it.


JustsomeYahoo wrote:

Ok, but the descriptive text specifically says the sword cannot be upgraded by that ability.

As Radiance has its own ability to grow in power, it cannot be given the upgradable legendary item ability.

or does that mean something else? I thought I had my arms around the mythic stuff.

Ahhh crap.. I just sorted it out. Upgrabable legendary ability is a specific power legendary weapon can be granted to upgrade a weapon (+1 to +2)

But the rest of the Legendary item abilities are still on the table..

Thanks guys, and Terrific AP James.. I love it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So if you wield Radiance,as a paladin, you cannot use the Legendary Item Mythic ability on Armour instead?

Scarab Sages

Correct. Radiance bonds as a Legendary Weapon to the Paladin that wields it during the Gray Garrison fight.

Silver Crusade

Unless the wielder does not wish to bond with it.

The character in my game who wields Radiance planned on taking Legendary Item to bond with her shield. I was not going to force a bond with Radiance. I did, however, explain that the blade did reach out in order to do so but it did not force itself on her. So, at the point of accesion she bonded herself to her shield and Radiance pulled back.

It still progresses its way toward becoming a Holy Avenger.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Radiance bonds with the paladin, but that does not force the paladin to use Legendary Weapon on Radiance. She can still use that on a shield or other weapon if she wants... it's just slightly less efficient to do so.

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
Radiance bonds with the paladin, but that does not force the paladin to use Legendary Weapon on Radiance. She can still use that on a shield or other weapon if she wants... it's just slightly less efficient to do so.

So what does it do about the baseline Legendary Item ability?

PRD wrote:

Mythic Bond: A legendary item is typically bonded to a single mythic creature. Others can pick up and use a legendary item for its basic functions (like hitting a foe with a legendary mace), but only the creature bonded to the item can utilize it fully.

A mythic creature can be bonded to only one legendary item at a time. If a mythic creature is already bonded to a legendary item, she can't become bonded to another item until the previous bond is broken. Likewise, a legendary item that is already bonded to a mythic creature can't be bonded to another until the former bond is broken.

Does Radiance bypass the base rule there?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Lochar wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Radiance bonds with the paladin, but that does not force the paladin to use Legendary Weapon on Radiance. She can still use that on a shield or other weapon if she wants... it's just slightly less efficient to do so.

So what does it do about the baseline Legendary Item ability?

PRD wrote:

Mythic Bond: A legendary item is typically bonded to a single mythic creature. Others can pick up and use a legendary item for its basic functions (like hitting a foe with a legendary mace), but only the creature bonded to the item can utilize it fully.

A mythic creature can be bonded to only one legendary item at a time. If a mythic creature is already bonded to a legendary item, she can't become bonded to another item until the previous bond is broken. Likewise, a legendary item that is already bonded to a mythic creature can't be bonded to another until the former bond is broken.

Does Radiance bypass the base rule there?

If you don't choose to bond to Radiance, you don't bond to it. If you as the GM know that the player of a paladin DOESN'T want to bond to what's going to become a "free holy avenger" then you shouldn't force the bond to happen... but frankly, I'm not sure many paladins will want that.


If a paladin has already has a legendary quality weapon and then chooses Radiance do the legendary qualities transfer over to Radiance example intelligent item?

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