GM shooting down character builds / story + How to grab those domains!


Advice

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I recently hit level 8 on a character that has 7 levels of fighter (foehammer). I planned to add a level of cleric and asked if I needed a deity. I was told "No, why would your character do it when he's shown no interest, aptitude nor has backstory leading to a holy path?
And no, clerics need a diety unless given GM permission, which is no because it defeats the cleric's purpose since there are druids and oracles". So I've been told I can't even take a level of cleric.

Despite having all the Dwarf gods written down on his character sheet and talking about them since day one, and despite the vagueness of how I feel the phrase "holy path" can be taken, I was wondering if there's any other way to grab domains with a 1 level dip? I think a druid may be able to, but I have limited knowledge of that class, and I can see being denied an inquisitor level for the same reason.

If any options are limited to magic items please note that I have none and only 500 gold.


This DM is absolutely unreasonable. I don't know how well you know these people, but this may not be the best DM/group to play with. If nothing else, show your DM this thread after a while. I'm sure it will be filled with useful advice, and he might be convinced.

A DM's main duty is to make everyone have fun. If he's infringing upon your enjoyment of the campaign, tell him.


Which domain do you want? While I don't know enough of your situation to tell who's being unreasonable, I can tell you which domains you can get by dipping various druid archetypes.

Dark Archive

Sorry, I don't get the part in which you have to choose a deity and you have all the dwarven pantheon written down on your sheet.
Does your character worship all the pantheon (which at my table would be a perfectly reasonable premise for a cleric)?
Does your DM require a more specific choice since character creation?


Bearded Ben wrote:
Which domain do you want? While I don't know enough of your situation to tell who's being unreasonable, I can tell you which domains you can get by dipping various druid archetypes.

The fighter is a reach weapon wielding tripper/bull rusher, so in order of preference I would like growth, travel, or anything that would help with that sort of play-style. Thank you.

Sovereign Court

For a one level dip to get a domain, you could go with Druid or Inquisitor for either of those Domains. You could get it with four levels of paladin as well, but it doesn't seem like you'd want that as a dwarf.

As far as legal deities go, the Druid doesn't care. The Inquisitor on the other hand would have to worship a non-dwarven god to get either of the two options you mentioned.


golem101 wrote:

Sorry, I don't get the part in which you have to choose a deity and you have all the dwarven pantheon written down on your sheet.

Does your character worship all the pantheon (which at my table would be a perfectly reasonable premise for a cleric)?
Does your DM require a more specific choice since character creation?

My character doesn't necessarily "worship" all the gods (As in going to church or paying tithe). I talk to the party cleric about how my gods are superior, called out to Torag or Angradd in battle, mentioned Trudd when breaking something, or Magrim when vanquishing a foe. Granted I have not been as adamant about doing such as when I first started playing this character. I did specifically state that my character prays to all the dwarf gods at convenience during the first session. Ooc I have mentioned to the party about taking a level of cleric multiple times around the GM and he never said anything.

I'm not sure if he wants something specific at character creation, but that seems a bit silly given that the GM has altered my dwarf who is prejudiced against anyone not dwarf, human, or dainty weak elf by forcing him to have a Tiefling mentor pop up out of the blue.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

have a 'conversion experience'- all religions are full of leaders and revered individuals whose story includes some moment when they suddenly were moved to take their faith more seriously (Siddhartha's chariot ride through the slums before journeying to buddha-hood, St. Paul's encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus or St. Augustine's life changing reading of the book of Romans, etc.). just tell the GM that you've always loosely worshiped the dwarven gods, as indicated on your character sheet, but after so much killing (and, likely, near death experiences) you've felt moved to join the temple in earnest (perhaps there was a dream or an emotional experience involved)... if he still says no then he's just being obstinate (and might not be the best person to game with).

although, if he's an old-school gamer he may just be looking for some 'training time'- it used to be a rule that you needed down time to level and if you wanted to enter a new class you'd have to find a teacher to instruct you... ask if that's what he's looking for, and if the answer is yes just set up some down time to be spent training with a NPC cleric or at some temple and plan to take the level at 9th instead.

to answer the question you actually asked... there are a couple ways to pick up a domain: a sacred servant paladin gets one- that's probably straight out, given the cleric reaction; inquisitors get one (and are probably better for a dip from fighter than a cleric), but might run into the same issue (although inquisitors are definitely on the 'loose' side of the religious spectrum- just read their flavor text and alignment section, which is looser than the clerics); druids can choose a domain in place of an animal companion, but they are limited in their selection (and who knows what kind of objections your GM might have)... those are the only ways i can think of off the top of my head.

edit: base druid can take plant[growth] and i'm pretty sure there's at least one archetype that can take travel (plains maybe, and/or world walker)- watch out though, the GM may say you can't take a druid level because you worship the dwarven gods...

tangent that got too long:
sorry, i've just played with GMs like that in the past who (for whatever reason) always feel like the players need to be behind the 8-ball. sometimes it can be fun but at other times its just so painfully frustrating (like when you're 8th level with no magic items and no gold and the GM can't figure out why you can't beat the CR 5 ghost he made you fight).

i had some friends playing in a campaign where the GM was like your's (or like your's sounds to me) and they actually all just found day jobs as like shopkeeps and blacksmiths and wouldn't take on any adventuring opportunities unless there was a reasonable guarantee that they'd make more money risking their lives than they would staying in town and working... in that case the GM got kind of pissed at first but then when he realized that they were right and really could make more money just working he actually decided to fix some of what he was doing. i don't know how a move like that would be received by your GM but the reality is that if you really only made 500g total in 7 levels you probably would retire from constantly risking your life and find some kind of other work...


Just say "I worship the whole pantheon."

You don't need a specific patron. That was pretty common in pantheistic cultures. You pray tot he appropriate god at the appropriate time or circumstance.

Also, your GM needs to lighten up.


Growth subdomain - non-archetyped Druid, Cave Druid, Blight Druid
Travel domain - Wolf Shaman Druid


Druid would probably be a problem

"A druid who wears prohibited armor or uses a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter."

Unless you can grab some Dragonhide armor.

Maybe try the Crusader archtype as a suggestion? Since they are militant to begin with?


nate lange wrote:


i don't know how a move like that would be received by your GM but the reality is that if you really only made 500g total in 7 levels you probably would retire from constantly risking your life and find some kind of other work...

Probably wouldn't work since everyone else in the group has 5-11 magic items (non-exaggerated straight off spread sheet). I had 3, which were promptly stolen.


Lord_Malkov wrote:

Druid would probably be a problem

"A druid who wears prohibited armor or uses a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter."

Unless you can grab some Dragonhide armor.

Indeed. I asked about that as well in the thread pasted below. Thank you

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qb38?Any-Druid-heavy-armor-with-3-max-dex#1


Bearded Ben wrote:

Growth subdomain - non-archetyped Druid, Cave Druid, Blight Druid

Travel domain - Wolf Shaman Druid

Thank you.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

just make a back story.


GeneticDrift wrote:
just make a back story.

I have one already. Unless you mean something adding on to the backstory by saying "O. By the way. Apparently I had amnesia blocking the memories of a religious experience."? I'll write it down as an option, but I don't think it'll go over well.


Yeah your GM needs to relax.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cute Kitty wrote:
GeneticDrift wrote:
just make a back story.
I have one already. Unless you mean something adding on to the backstory by saying "O. By the way. Apparently I had amnesia blocking the memories of a religious experience."? I'll write it down as an option, but I don't think it'll go over well.

Adding more detail to your past is not a bad thing and explain what your character believes and has been doing the whole time. Game time is always limited, not everything needs to be "on screen".

I am not sure how its possible if the god has to pick you. You could undertake a personal quest to learn more about the deity. Tithe to their church....give all 500g.

Good luck.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Nothing in the archetype restricts you to Dwarven Gods.

List some personal beliefs you would like your character to have, and we can help you find a decent Deity.

Liberty's Edge

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Just a guess based on your posts, but I would guess your DM is balking at the idea of the level dip because you want it for the purely mechanical bonus of the domains and not giving a solid "RP" reason for picking up a level in Cleric (Which is fine if that is the style of game being run), so perhaps you can actually use that as a means of justifying the level dip.

Explain to him that since the dwarves and their gods are often very practical and pragmatic about doing things, that your dip into cleric is not so much about you "finding god", but about them enhancing you to better do their work (ie fighting giants, orcs and all the rest of the things that annoy dwarves), sort of making you a holy warrior (an alternative to being a paladin) and granting you the domains that will enhance your ability (In this case, your fighting abilities) to do their work. Basically sell the idea as less of a grand religious experience turning you into a holy roller, and more of you being bestowed with a sliver of divine might to do further the dwarven cause. Heck, could even propose to your DM that this could open some RP concepts where he could give your character "visions" or what not for future plot hooks.

This way you have both a mechanical and RP reason that can work hand in hand without requiring some great expression of faith.

Just my 2 copper.
-Foms


Cute Kitty wrote:
I recently hit level 8

My advice: tell your DM that your character is going to a temple for training as a cleric, and ask him how long should you wait to come back and join the group.

Or simply say goodbye. It sounds as if he wants to play your character, so why do you need to be there?

James

Shadow Lodge

It's a bit like saying a priest must have been destined to be a priest from birth, or else he would never become one.

There are certain character choices that you must make at 1st level and the rulebooks say when this is the case, such as with certain feats. Multiclassing into cleric isn't one of them. It's enough to say that your character decided a bit of piety is the way to go.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ask him if he wants to build, and play your character.

That seems to be what he wants to do.


Cute Kitty wrote:
nate lange wrote:


i don't know how a move like that would be received by your GM but the reality is that if you really only made 500g total in 7 levels you probably would retire from constantly risking your life and find some kind of other work...
Probably wouldn't work since everyone else in the group has 5-11 magic items (non-exaggerated straight off spread sheet). I had 3, which were promptly stolen.

Reiterating a previous question: Are you playing in the right group?

:/

Deeply confused.


Sorry, can't offer advice on mechanics to get the domain.

How ever, I think looking for an "alternate" path to mechanics you want (by dipping to another class) is going around the real issue: The GM told you "NO" on a character advancement choice.

For the record, I think your GM is dead wrong and hope you can talk to them reasonably (so they can be reasonable). There's no reason to disallow someone to take a basic class choice, as long as from that point on, they follow the rules of that class. There are several RP reasons to dip into cleric, and from then on you must RP as (to a degree) a cleric.

I'm not sure how much it means to you, but this is an issue I'd stand up against.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

First off, I agree with what everyone else has said that if there was no previous expectation set at the games beginning, there should be no reason you cannot add a level of cleric now. With that being said, if I were GM I would expect you to explain in game why your character felt moved to take up a previouly ignored faith all of the sudden. Which just means you would have to explain what moved your character to do so.

Some GMs don't like players taking levels of other classes out of the blue, like in the middle of a dungeon, etc. This I can understand also, as long as there is an earlier discussion about restrictions like this.

You also could have thought ahead and talked to your GM about the fact that probably down the road you wanted to take a level of cleric. Why was this a surprise to your GM?

As far as domains goes, clerics, druids, inquisitors are the only ones I know of who can take them. There are a few prestige classes, but I don't recall any that don't require at least one level of one of those base classes prior.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

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Rather than try and work around the restrictions your GM's put up, you might take some time to understand why he's put them up. If you work around his restrictions to get the same benefits, he's likely to get more frustrated which is going to lead to more trouble down the road.


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It's not unreasonable for a GM to require some kind of roleplaying reason for certain multi-class options - If a character wants to take a level of wizard or cleric my own GM requires players either have some sort of appropriate backstory or make an attempt at seeking training.

This doesn't have to be a horrible thing - it can add to your character. You could have your dwarf announce that he has reached a landmark age and his culture demands that he must go on a pilgrimage to a sacred dwarven site. When he comes back he has begun a journey of enlightenment and has a level of cleric.

Of course a GM can go too far in this - I once had a GM that required 5 years training to take the first level of wizard.


DM is a control freak. It happens sometimes unfortunately.

Taking a cleric level isn't broken so he needs to chill out and let his players have their fun.


Your GM is stealing magic items from you and telling you how to develop your character, while outlawing perfectly legal multiclass options for you and you alone?

I don't think the hints need to be any clearer. Find a new GM; this one hates your guts.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Well, I don't know you, your GM, or your group's playing style, but I could see myself making a similar call to your GM, depending on circumstances.

My campaign is first and foremost a collective storytelling and amateur improv acting experience. We can go four or five sessions without a combat. We all play first-person, and try very hard not to break character. For character design, I encourage my players to go for style over mechanics, while still making competent PCs.

In my campaign world, a cleric must worship a specific deity: it's a campaign story element that differentiates clerics from other divine casters. That element is baked into my campaign world, and has been a plot point on more than one occasion. I also make this clear in my campaign player's guide. In my game, if you want to be a divine caster that gets domain abilities without following a single god, you can be an oracle, druid, or inquisitor.

For story reasons, the training necessary to become a cleric takes a while. Now, if the player told me ahead of time that he had planned for the PC to eventually take a level of cleric , or if strong faith in one god had been a major character element, then we could build some of the preparation for the priesthood into that into the character's backstory, and I would have incorporated it into the plotline of the game.

It would also work for me if the PC had a true religious experience, and decided to renounce his former profession to dedicate himself to his new-found faith, multi-classing into cleric as the new primary class. The player would have to back that up with good roleplaying.

But if a player decided, seemingly out of the blue,to "take a one-level dip into cleric" and when I asked why, he replied, "Because I want this way cool domain power," then I would definitely say "no."

Of course, the kind of player who would be inclined to do that probably wouldn't find my game all that enjoyable anyway. I'm not saying that what you want to do is wrongbadfun, just that that kind of play style doesn't really work with the kind of game I run.


Cute Kitty wrote:

I recently hit level 8 on a character that has 7 levels of fighter (foehammer). I planned to add a level of cleric and asked if I needed a deity. I was told "No, why would your character do it when he's shown no interest, aptitude nor has backstory leading to a holy path?

...

A lot of people on these boards will say this is a jerk GM and you should run away screaming. I sorta disagree. It is not the game I prefer to play, but I do know several people that play like that and enjoy it. So decide for yourself if it is acceptable to you.

If you do decide it is acceptable, you had the info right here.

Cute Kitty wrote:

...

My character doesn't necessarily "worship" all the gods (As in going to church or paying tithe). I talk to the party cleric about how my gods are superior, called out to Torag or Angradd in battle, mentioned Trudd when breaking something, or Magrim when vanquishing a foe. Granted I have not been as adamant about doing such as when I first started playing this character. I did specifically state that my character prays to all the dwarf gods at convenience during the first session. Ooc I have mentioned to the party about taking a level of cleric multiple times around the GM and he never said anything...

I would have countered with,

"Yes he has shown interest. He has repeatedly gotten in long involved discussions with X about theology. He has repeatedly shown his devotion to the dwarven pantheon. And his personality has recently become even more inline with Y as has been shown when he did things like Z.
In the absence of formal aptitude testing, aptitude can only be shown in making the attempt which he now wants to do.
No it was not in the backstory, because as a young dwarf in the beginning he was not interested in becoming a priest (otherwise he would have started as a cleric). Now with more life experience, he has seen the direct influence the gods have provided in his life. He wants to spread that message to others."

I can not say for certain, but some GM's (especially if they played back in the old red box days) want to see some in character justification, storyline, and role playing to switch/add classes.

Personally, I agree with the cleric needing a deity. But the GM should make house rules like that known at the beginning of the campaign, not 8 levels into it.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:


I would have countered with,
"Yes he has shown interest. He has repeatedly gotten in long involved discussions with X about theology. He has repeatedly shown his devotion to the dwarven pantheon. And his personality has recently become even more inline with Y as has been shown when he did things like Z.
In the absence of formal aptitude testing, aptitude can only be shown in making the attempt which he now wants to do.
No it was not in the backstory, because as a young dwarf in the beginning he was not interested in becoming a priest (otherwise he would have started as a cleric). Now with more life experience, he has seen the direct influence the gods have provided in his life. He wants to spread that message to others."

The dwarf was indeed trained by two members of Erastil (paladin and inquisitor) in the frontier for months. These trainers are still contacted daily, and have helped the entire party throughout the campaign. While not a dwarven god, Erastil seems to be Ulfen which may be the next best thing seeing as how the trainers and myself are all from Lands of Linnorm. The portfolio of family and trade fits since I write to my parents every chance I get and have profession miner. There have been tons of encounters relating to gods and religion of course. I think this could work for cleric or inquisitor.

I'll see if I can flesh this out a bit more before asking about it. Thank you for the input.


Tell your GM that your character now wants to be even more religious and to learn some of the ways of a cleric. It must be divine inspiration, that has given you this desire. (Seriously, you shouldn't need to justify what your character wants.) Remind the GM your character has followed the dwarven gods from day 1.

Ask your GM what your character needs to do in order to make this happen. If you have downtime, seek out an appropriate dwarven temple/cleric and seek their advice on how to accomplish this.

If you want to be passive aggressive, if an adventure comes up, claim that your character doesn't want to participate until you obtain the clerical training you desire. Alternatively, retire your character, and play an annoying and ineffectual character instead.

Is their a house rule that prohibits multi-classing?

A level of Barbarian could give you the +10' movement that the Travel domain gives.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Master of the Dark Triad wrote:

This DM is absolutely unreasonable. I don't know how well you know these people, but this may not be the best DM/group to play with. If nothing else, show your DM this thread after a while. I'm sure it will be filled with useful advice, and he might be convinced.

A DM's main duty is to make everyone have fun. If he's infringing upon your enjoyment of the campaign, tell him.

That's a premature judgement since the OP hasn't specifically laid out what he's asked for.

If the OP wants to be a cleric and make his patron ALL of the dwarven pantheon, so that he can pick and choose his two domains, then the DM is perfectly valid in his call. If he wants to be a follower of a specific diety as per a standard cleric, then the DM is equally valid to require some demonstration of devotion to said diety.

Multi-classing is a complex subject and some combinations and/or later choices can appear a bit on the wonky side.

Following advice such as that laid out by demontroll in the post preceding, however is good for nothing, unless what you desire is a show of true immaturity.


Cute Kitty wrote:

...

I'll see if I can flesh this out a bit more before asking about it. Thank you for the input.

Let us know how it goes, I'm curious what the reaction will be. I am guessing you will get a positive reaction. But I could be way off.


Don't get me wrong, I don't think your GM is terrible or a terrible person.

*Directed at no one in particular*

While I can appreciate a story driven game, and a story driven character progression. For this particular case, the GM seems unreasonable. Clerics don't have to be diehard fanatics (from day 1) no less, and the character has some inclination towards worship.

The most important part is that the OP has to face the main problem (GM blockade) rather than trying to sidestep it, or the confrontation (eventually) will be nasty as the GM feels the player went behind their back and the player is frustrated at having multiple decisions blocked.

In this case, I believe the player is in the right.


I do think we need to know a bit more about the rules for the campaign. If I havn't given any then I'd tell a player to pick their poison. The rules don't require any back story or prior work so not having altered them I'd be fine with the choice.

Now that being said that's not how I run my game. I work staying a level ahead on pathing so I can provide story and experience that will blend into the players choice. I give each character a personal goal for their next level based on the most important choice they'll be making for that level up. So a character that wanted to grab a level of cleric would be given a small set of tasks they'd have to complete to get to the next level. Once completed he'd recieve experience points for completing the task (I use current leve X 1,000, I use the slow progession table which makes the progression a little steeper than the middle table). This encourages the players to think about their build, adds story that is around what the players want to do, and makes for logical progression of the character in the game world.

So while the DM may have some sound or logical reasons to deny the dip, I don't think he spelled it out and gave you enough info to know what you needed to do to make the dip you want. I wish we could change him, but given you're asking and not him the lesson to learn would be to ask ahead of time what you need to do to switch classes. If he's not going to give you the rules, basically force him to.


Honestly, I think having all your stuff stolen while everyone else has 5 to 11 magic items seems like a pretty good reason to have a conversion experience towards worshiping Droskar, the dwarf god of jealousy for treasure. He doesn't have either of the two domains you want, but it fits the story.


Wait a second.
You're a fighter. That's level 8. With NO magic items, even the [less-than-others-in-party] you had got taken?

So right off, already, sorry to say but your gm has decided your character should not be allowed to be viable. A Fighter hitting those levels with no magical equipment is in deep **** and unless you're playing with people whose vocabulary is limited to the sound of growing crops, you're probably not really pulling your weight either.

... And then, we find that your character has been paying lipservice to the Dwarven Gods from day 1.... And you're "not religious so you can't be a cleric.

I'm gonna go off on a short limb here - might call it a giant solid treetrunk, really, and say that your gm wants you or at the very minimum your character f***ing GONE from his table and doesn't have the <gonads> to do so in a non-passive-aggressive way.

Quote:


i don't know how a move like that would be received by your GM but the reality is that if you really only made 500g total in 7 levels you probably would retire from constantly risking your life and find some kind of other work...

Also this. Your party's not letting you have items, or they're "not suited to you" every single time? You know what's REALLY not in character? Sticking to those a!+%~@%s that take your share of the treasure, go "no you can't have any", and then stick you out front so you "can do your share".

You AND your character have very few reasons to be there.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cute Kitty wrote:
nate lange wrote:


i don't know how a move like that would be received by your GM but the reality is that if you really only made 500g total in 7 levels you probably would retire from constantly risking your life and find some kind of other work...
Probably wouldn't work since everyone else in the group has 5-11 magic items (non-exaggerated straight off spread sheet). I had 3, which were promptly stolen.

Um...well only hearing one side so far but let's recap.

=======================================================
1-The GM creates custom house rules that he springs on you at level 8?
Did any other players have a similar experience?
2-Make life for your character more difficult by denying you the appropriate magic items? Or are your 3 items worth as much or more than the other players 5-11 items? Or is the campaign that easy?
3-Setting the game on hard mode with your character having at 8th level the wealth of a 1st level character.
So the rest of the party also has this level of wealth?
PRD wrote:


Table: Character Wealth by Level
PC Lvl Wealth
2 1,000 gp
3 3,000 gp
4 6,000 gp
5 10,500 gp
6 16,000 gp
7 23,500 gp
8 33,000 gp
9 46,000 gp
...

Still let's hear his side. What's the reason the GM is giving for these custom rules? Is everyone treated equally? 500 gp in cash is appropriate if say your 3 magic items are worth ~32,000 gp total...are they?

By comparison, a single adventure FOR A 1ST LEVEL character in Society Play, which is 3-4 hours of game time and about 4-6 encounters (usually 1-2 roleplay/skills and 3-4 combat) would get you about 500 gold.


First - the end result of your GM forbidding the class advancement is a bit much (though certainly in his realm of authority).

Second - he is right actually about requiring a deity. Golarion clerics must have deities (note: not *Pathfinder* clerics, just Golarion clerics). That's part of the world-lore.

Third - take his objections seriously, but talk with him. I also require some foreknowledge that a character is planning to take another class - to provide some hooks, and to see some character development towards it. And I've had players *totally* role-playing the path towards another class and I personally never noticed. That may be what happened to you here, we GMs can be oblivious sometimes.


I get the feeling they're trying to switch to a full caster partly because they can't keep up as an item-less fighter. A "my only hope is upgrading to Tier 1" affair perhaps.


LazarX wrote:
Following advice such as that laid out by demontroll in the post preceding, however is good for nothing, unless what you desire is a show of true immaturity.

Talking to the GM explaining why you think your character is religious, and therefore could become a cleric, is not being immature.

Roleplaying your character trying to become a cleric, is not being immature.

Asking if there is a houserule prohibiting multi-classing, is not being immature.

The advice I prefaced as being passive aggressive, could be seen as immature. Hence, why I said it would be a "passive aggressive" approach. Now there isn't enough detail to know what is really going on in this campaign, but walking away from the group, or taking a passive aggressive approach, may be your only option, once you have exhausted all other avenues.


The oracle class has a lot of mysteries that may help you achieve what you are looking for out of a 1level cleric dip. Also has a nice "blam now I am a divine caster flavor."


Rerednaw wrote:


1-The GM creates custom house rules that he springs on you at level 8?
Did any other players have a similar experience?
2-Make life for your character more difficult by denying you the appropriate magic items? Or are your 3 items worth as much or more than the other players 5-11 items? Or is the campaign that easy?
3-Setting the game on hard mode with your character having at 8th level the wealth of a 1st level character.
So the rest of the party also has this level of wealth?

1-I don't believe so. There is a level 8 cleric7/fighter1 and a level 8 rogue/wizard. The barbarian has expressed interest in an oracle dip with nothing said so far.

2-I'm hoping it's for story purpose. My 3 items were worth 14320 gold total. The campaign seems to be a little harder with a character dying ever other session and at least one or more characters hitting negative hit points every session.
3-No, the rest of the party seems to be in good shape.

Edit: Rant that no one needed to go through. :)


Jamie Charlan wrote:
I get the feeling they're trying to switch to a full caster partly because they can't keep up as an item-less fighter. A "my only hope is upgrading to Tier 1" affair perhaps.

I don't want to be a full caster. Just the dip which I have expressed interest in numerous times before with nothing said from the GM.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cute Kitty wrote:
Rerednaw wrote:


1-The GM creates custom house rules that he springs on you at level 8?
Did any other players have a similar experience?
2-Make life for your character more difficult by denying you the appropriate magic items? Or are your 3 items worth as much or more than the other players 5-11 items? Or is the campaign that easy?
3-Setting the game on hard mode with your character having at 8th level the wealth of a 1st level character.
So the rest of the party also has this level of wealth?

1-I don't believe so. There is a level 8 cleric7/fighter1 and a level 8 rogue/wizard. The barbarian has expressed interest in an oracle dip with nothing said so far.

2-I'm hoping it's for story purpose. My 3 items were worth 14320 gold total. The campaign seems to be a little harder with a character dying ever other session and at least one or more characters hitting negative hit points every session.
3-No, the rest of the party seems to be in good shape.

Edit: Rant that no one needed to go through. :)

Wow sorry, in light of this information sounds like something is bit off with the campaign.

Unless your party is deliberately using subpar tactics, has horrific luck, or this is part of the story this frequency of PC death is not normal and quite uncommon. If the GM is throwing you encounters at the APL+4 (which means fair chance of a single PC death) then he has almost no excuse to also keep you geared as a 5th level character. He's certainly violating the core game assumptions. It's his perogative as the GM, but there is supposed to be a good reason for it. So far I have not seen one.

Has the GM read this thread yet? What's his response?

Oh and given all these PC deaths, your character has even more justification for finding religion. Near-death experiences or traumatic experiences like say having close companion die are a common trigger for finding faith. And given that you experience it every other day...then yeah...

Hope this works out for you. In the meantime may I humbly suggest that there is a huge online VTT(virtual table top) community? Google the Pathfinder Online Society Google group. It may do you some good to get some comparative play in. In addition some others (such as myself) also run ongoing home game campaigns online.

Good luck!

Silver Crusade

Cute Kitty wrote:
nate lange wrote:


i don't know how a move like that would be received by your GM but the reality is that if you really only made 500g total in 7 levels you probably would retire from constantly risking your life and find some kind of other work...
Probably wouldn't work since everyone else in the group has 5-11 magic items (non-exaggerated straight off spread sheet). I had 3, which were promptly stolen.

I apologise for asking a personal question, but are you a girl at all?

How about the DM? Any of the other players?

The reason I ask is that your story reminds me of the horror story threads where one player gets picked on.

Do you find that your PC is treated as a sex-object, whether or not your PC is female?

As a player OR as a character, is it expected that you do all the cooking?

The DM creates the entire world! The only thing the players create is their own character. It is utterly wrong for the DM to tell you what personality your character may or may not have. If you say your character is religious, it's not his business to tell you that you're not.


Rerednaw wrote:


Has the GM read this thread yet? What's his response?

I don't believe pointing the GM to a thread where a lot of comments seem to be jumping on him would be a great idea and would like to offer ideas to him rather than letting him know he's "wrong".

Rerednaw wrote:


Oh and given all these PC deaths, your character has even more justification for finding religion. Near-death experiences or traumatic experiences like say having close companion die are a common trigger for finding faith. And given that you experience it every other day...then yeah...

Thank you for this input. I will add it to the cleric background concept.

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