You are going to have to explain how it amplifies a near limitless casting capability (Scribe Scroll) already inherent in the Wizard class.Mostly because it lessens the chance that the wizard doesn't have the spell he needs to cast prepared at a given time.
Normally, the wizard only has so many spells prepared, and can only cast each one so many times. Under the house rule you mention, he's only limited by the spells in his book, which can grow exponentially. And he can cast them in any combination, the same as the sorcerer.
A sorcerer gets 34 spells known over his career, not counting expansion options.
A wizard gets more than 40, before spending WBL on scribing more..
And the Wizards Scribe Scroll ability fails to counter that "limitation" how?
The first "trick" every 3.x wizard player tells me about is Scribing multiple copies of every single spell you know onto scrolls.Followed by "Take every craft item feat, yatta, yatta, yatta..."
So can you see why I view spontaneous casting as non pivotal?
You are going to have to explain how it amplifies a near limitless casting capability (Scribe Scroll) already inherent in the Wizard class.Mostly because it lessens the chance that the wizard doesn't have the spell he needs to cast prepared at a given time.
Normally, the wizard only has so many spells prepared, and can only cast each one so many times. Under the house rule you mention, he's only limited by the spells in his book, which can grow exponentially. And he can cast them in any combination, the same as the sorcerer.
A sorcerer gets 34 spells known over his career, not counting expansion options.
A wizard gets more than 40, before spending WBL on scribing more..
And it's a VERY rare campaign where a wizard doesn't double or triple the volume of his spellbook compared to those he gets for free.
maybe in your neck of the woods...
My experiences say double to triple is the extreme.and 40 to 60 total is more the norm. (Around here anyway).
The differencse here, are A: that scribing costs money (and to a lesser extent, time.) and B: Spells on scrolls don't use your ability score to determine their DC.
Here you're just making the Wizard a better Sorcerer than the Sorcerer (when he was already a better arcanist than the Sorcerer) and therefore completely invalidating the Sorcerer class.
Anybody who plays a Sorcerer in a campaign wherein a Wizard can spontaneously cast anything in his spellbook is making himself even more of a gimp than a Sorcerer normally is in PF.
If you play a "by the numbers" style game... Perhaps...
I have used this house rule for close to a year now (And only now noticed the Cantrip issue... Thank you for making me take a closer look at that... odd none of my players noticed that "break") and have experienced no problems with a party that includes both a Sorcerer (Dragon Blood line) and a Wizard (Shapechange School).Both fill a Unique Niche in the party.
Nor have I experienced any issues with other Parties with Wizard and Sorcerer mixes.
I'm happy for you. You cannot use that specific to generalize about other peoples experiences.
Nor can they claim their opinion is Fact.
My experiences go toward disproving their "facts."
Nor can they claim their opinion is Fact.Nor have I.
But you and I are not the only ones in the conversation are we?
Anybody who plays a Sorcerer in a campaign wherein a Wizard can spontaneously cast anything in his spellbook is making himself even more of a gimp than a Sorcerer normally is in PF.
To be fair, we're probably talking about two distinct situations Damian.
I'm referring to tables where each mage is playing his own game and really cares about his relative value to the party.
In your games I suspect (although I certainly could be wrong, I don't exactly sit at your table after all) that the Wizard and Sorcerer collaborate to contribute differently to the party and are very focused on party results as a whole?
You pretty much hit the nail on the head on how most of my parties function.
Even when the players independently create characters once they get together at the table they typically hash out party "roles." You wouldn't think that a 10 person party could fill niches and not have much over lap... but somehow they manage to each remain unique.(I assume in that respect at least I got lucky and hit the player jack pot).
I would assume your assumption is correct Damian. I know I wouldn't quite fall into that either. (I would try to avoid stepping on people's toes sure, but I'm still there to be a valuable asset to the party and would hate to play a Sorcerer being second fiddle to the Wizard.)
Well like I said we have not experienced any issues with it (But then I do not use Golarion as my setting either...)
Pathfinder + Palladium Books Fantasy setting is my current default (I really love their settings). One of the main reasons for the HR is to more closely emulate the PBF setting. (All casters are effectively "spontaneous" casters in their system).
Even if it's a gimp compared to a spontaneous wizard (which it certainly is, mechanically speaking) a Sorcerer is still a full caster, and therefore still has more power potential than every non-full caster class in the game.
It still has a bit of a niche, being charisma based.
I think also how one views the classes may play a factor.
We tend to think of the Sorcerer as a more "shamanistic" style caster.
And the Wizard as the more studious/learned style.
Or as the arrogant Cavalier in the party put it... "we got the hippie and the bookworm to cover the magic end of things."
Relative to a spontaneous wizard, it probably wouldn't be out of line to actually move the Sorcerer spell progression up a full two levels, so it would be ahead of the Wizard.
I would strongly consider moving the Sorcerer spellcasting progression up to match the wizards (I do this even for core PF though, because really, although the Sorcerer is a rock solid useful class, Wizard craps in its biscuits) and significantly increasing a Sorcerer's spells known. Perhaps +2 spells known of the new level at the odd levels in addition to the chart as written would help.
Well in my games we really do not care too much about "balance" (4 old school grognards for the core group) so we always play around with tweaks here and there to see how it enhances or detracts from the game. (tried to adapt PBs active defense to Pathfinder... that did not go well...)
I have given it some thought before...
But when you look at it the Sorcerer (typically) ends up being able to cast more spells per day than the Wizard (they just have a more limited list).
I have given consideration to allowing them to gain spells known a level or two sooner as well as extending when new spells slots begin (that whole suddenly getting 3 new slots always bothered me...)
I borrowed the 2 extra skill points from way of the wicked, but for campaign related skills. So for skull & shackles things like prof sailor or swim etc. I also let pc's with specific weapon proficiencies (bard, rogue, etc) trade out a weapon proficiency for a similar weapon proficiency (one handed martial for one handed martial etc with gm approval). Other things I've borrowed from other systems are the advantage or disadvantage from dnd next. If you are trying to do something that is not noted in the rules roll twice take the better or if you are trying to make somebody do something worse that is not noted in the rules give them disadvantage (roll twice take the lesser).
So long as we're discussing houserules and sorcerers, I may as well post my Sorcerer Spells known chart. I left cantrips out of this chart in my homebrew and handled that elsewhere in the writeup.
LVL | *1st | 2nd* | 3rd* | 4th* | 5th* | 6th* | 7th* | 8th* | 9th
001 | 2+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
002 | 3+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
003 | 4+B | 1+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
004 | 5+B | 2+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
005 | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
006 | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
007 | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
008 | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B | **** | **** | **** | **** | ****
009 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B | **** | **** | **** | ****
010 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B | **** | **** | **** | ****
011 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B | **** | **** | ****
012 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B | **** | **** | ****
013 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B | **** | ****
014 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B | **** | ****
015 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B | ****
016 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B | ****
017 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B | 1+B
018 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B | 2+B
019 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 3+B
020 | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 5+B | 4+B
I take it the B is for bonus? Meaning sorcerers (and I assume other spontaneous casters) get bonus spells known based on their Charisma (or other casting stat in cases that they don't use Cha)? Or is that the Spells per Day (looks reminiscent of a spells per day table)?
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I'm still looking for a good spontaneous replacement for the Witch, but I do like the Spont-Only concept.Witch works just fine as-is with just swapping the spells per day list for the Sorcerer's spells-known/spells per day lists.
I'm worried that would cause "dead levels", because Hexes also occur on the even levels. But I've thought about that as a solution.
I'm worried that would cause "dead levels", because Hexes also occur on the even levels. But I've thought about that as a solution.I'm still looking for a good spontaneous replacement for the Witch, but I do like the Spont-Only concept.Witch works just fine as-is with just swapping the spells per day list for the Sorcerer's spells-known/spells per day lists.
Right, I forget not everyone uses my "spont casters progress at the same rate as prepared casters" houserule.
Sorcerers have other advantages, so making wizards spontaneous won't break your game. It benefits the foes too, so players that abuse that have consequences coming. My leveled mutations table, when complete, will give sorcs. even more options.
My Savage Mage, with their flint knives and turtle shell shields, is far more shamanistic than sorcerers.
Armor spikes or a couch on top of a goblin, auto attack every round there is contact. For example, if a choker attacks Spiny the Gnome, the armor spikes counter attack for a possible 1 point of damage.
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I use D&D hit dice. Arcane casters d4, rogues d6.
Also, characters start with a low amount of ability points (low point buy, 3d6, all 10s, or similar solutions) and they get 2/lvl instead of 0.25/lvl. They're still capped at 18 (plus racial modifiers) in the beginning though, at 20 from 8th level and at 22 from 16th level, so they can't put their stats any higher than under normal rules. This has worked pretty well in modeling characters that actually grow from peasant joes into epic heroes as they adventure.
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Weapon Proficiencies
Proficiency is tied to BAB. +1 BAB classes gain 4 proficiencies at 1st level. A +3/4 BAB class gains 2 proficiencies at 1st level. A +1/2 BAB class gains 1 proficiency at 1st level.
Each proficiency allows a selection of One Weapon Group, or one Exotic Weapon Group. For example, a Fighter gains 4 proficiencies at 1st level, and could pick Blades, Heavy, Blades, Light, Exotic Blades, Heavy, and Bows.
When multiclassing, you gain half the number (round down) based on BAB. So, a +1 BAB class gives +2 proficiencies, and a +3/4 class gives +1 proficiency.
Feats that normally require you to pick a weapon (for example, Weapon Focus) instead require a Group. So Weapon Focus (Heavy Blades). Exotics count as base group for such feats. EWP covers an entire group if you take it as a feat, same with Weapon Proficiency.
Everyone get's simple weapon proficiency.
We've found this works really well, and gives multiclasser's a bit of a boost. Plus it makes it more likely someone will change weapons, since they aren't tied to one specific weapon for all their feats, just a group of them.
We have others, but this is a good one that everyone who has played with it likes.
Wow I really like this house rule. Gonna implement right away. Always hated players always sticking with one sword or one type of pole-arm because they invested too much into weapon focus/specialization/improved critical etc.
Some of the below house rules I use...disclaimer I run a very heroic game. The campaign is called War of the Damned. The players are trying to prevent the Infernal and Abyssal war from destroying the material plane even though each of them is somehow damned themselves.
1) Starting ability stats 18,17,16,15,14,13 and the player gets to add a +1 to two different stats, but can't increase a stat above 18 at first level. At 4th,8th,14th,18th level they get to increase any two stats they want. Then at 10th and 20th level they gain +1 to all stats.
No stat can ever be above a 24 unless it is because of racial or temporary magical enhancements or because they become mythic. Magical items that increase stats are very hard to come by in my campaign and usually have some kind of drawback attached to them. Wish spells, miracles, and other spells that can be used to permanently enhance stats don't work in giving a straight stat bonus, but instead will give something else that is somehow tied to the characters "theme." Bull's Strength, Enlarge, and other temporary spells work as normal and are one of the few ways of enhancing your spells. These spells can never have a permanent spell on them.
2) All player characters are Gestalt Characters. They go up in two classes every level gaining the best Base Attack, the best saves, and all of the class features. I restrict the classes to not being of the same primary type. Can't be a Paladin/Cleric, Barbarian/Fighter, Wizard/Sorcerer. However if they want to multiclass and change the two classes they go up in they are allowed to if the story of their characters makes sense. Example one player went up as a Monk/Cleric until 6th level and then continued going up in Cleric till 12th, but stopped going up in monk levels and began going up as a fighter for the additional 6 levels. Minor npcs and minor encounters remain the same, but all major npc enemies or creature enemies get adjusted to be considered Gestalt as well. They just fought three Devils of their challenge level that were also each 12th level classes as well as their normal traits.
3) All player characters gain 2 bonus combat feats at first level and one non-combat bonus feat at first level. Then every even level after first they gain a non-combat feat. At third level and every odd level they gain a combat feat.
4) The rule of 1's & 20's: All d20 natural rolls of 1 are considered a failure regardless of how high your modifiers are. There is always a 5% chance for skill, attack, save, etc failures. All d20 natural rolls of 20 are considered a success. If a 20 is a skill they are considered a critical success and I usually give some kind of bonus to the outcome or description of the success.
5) Skills: Climb and Swim are considered one skill called Athletics. Athletics can also make jump checks at a -5 to their total if a character is using raw strength instead of acrobatics to jump.
6) Feats: Dodge & Mobility are one skill giving a +1 to AC normally and for AoO's when moving gives a +4 instead. The feat is called mobility. Combat Expertise is not a feat anymore. It is just a combat option for all characters with at least a base attack bonus of +1. All feats that require combat expertise instead just have a prerequisite of a BAB +1 and a Int of 13 instead. Point Blank shot and precise shot are considered one feat called precise shot. Improved combat maneuvers are broken into two feats instead of the many that exist. Deft maneuvers has any dexterity based maneuvers (including Feint) and Powerful maneuvers has any strength based ones granting whatever bonuses the Improved maneuver would normally grant. My campaign promotes characters to use a few selections of maneuvers instead of only one. The greater maneuvers still require characters to take them individually. Any other feat that might have a prerequisite of the improved maneuver requires either Deft maneuvers or Powerful maneuvers. Deft Maneuvers requires the Int and Dex requirements that were in the original improved feats and Powerful Maneuvers requires Power Attack and any Str requirements that the improved feats might require. Weapon Finesse now has Bloody Finesse that allows for a character to add their Dexterity instead of their Strength to their damage. Create magic item feats are now just one feat called create magic items. To create a magic item the character needs to still be the minimum level that the individual feats required to take their feats. This just allows a player to take create magic items and as he levels he learns new items he can create. This is also because I don't give a lot of down time to create items and when they will really be able to make a lot of items its probably when they are retired. This will allow them to make the simple items and occasionally make other items for themselves or other players.
7) All characters have the opportunity to become mythic characters depending on roleplaying and where the story takes them. Mythic does come with a price because some kind of higher power or force of nature hones its attention on them which can come with all new issues.
8) Characters don't die until their hit points fall below their constitution plus half their character level. If a character falls below their constitution level they are somehow disfigured or scarred. If it is magic that brought them below this number they may have their saving throws or other defenses lowered for future attacks that are similar to the attack that did the damage.
9) And now I will be reviewing and bringing the weapon groups to my group.
I have a few.
Roll d12 for Initiative rather than d20
Spell Resistance raising/lowering is reversed (i.e. it's a free action to drop, standard to raise)
1 bonus feat at level 1, must be one of the feats that grants a bonus to two skills (alertness, persuasive, etc)
A homebrew feat that allows one to use vital strike in conjunction with spring attack and charge And I have one other that I use in games with less than 4 PCs:
Cure spells are automatically maximized out of combat, must be rolled during combat
I was wondering what your homebrew feat that allows vital strike to be used in conjunction with spring attack and charge is called and if there are any prerequisites for it?
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On the general "these apply regardless of system/setting" Front I have these...
#1: What is good for one is good for all.
Also known as the Goose/Gander rule. It basically means any Power/skill/spell/gear the PCs have access to so do the NPCS.
#2: Actions have consequences.
Pretty self explanatory... every action (even good ones) will produce some kind of result beyond the immediate. The Party Kills that NPC that had the secret information to defeat the Bad Guy? Now they do not have access to that information. The party chases a petty tyrant from a town? The tale of their good deed spreads. The town folk are grateful; etc...
#3: Events do not stagnate.
The Party chooses to ignore a plot thread? That villain is not going to wait for the heroes to "get around" to him; He is going to continue with his plans. What could this mean for our heroes? The Big Bad Evil Guy might be bigger and badder than he would have been if they had followed it when it was first presented. Or it could be that another band of heroes defeated him stealing the players thunder.
#4: The GM is god (to a point).
Regardless of what some players would have you think; the GM really is god (of his game world); he controls every thing in the game universe except the PCs.
Arguing with him over a decision is tantamount to telling the gods they are running the universe wrong. (see rule #2)
#4(a): If a Player disagrees with a ruling they get 5 minutes to calmly and rationally present their case. This does not mean I (the GM) have to change my call but I will give it a listen and actively consider it.
#4(b): Only citations (Book, Chapter, Page, Paragraph) from physical books available at the game table will be accepted into evidence. S/PRDs, FAQs, and Message boards are never acceptable alternatives at physical games. At least one member [typically the GM] of the group owns a physical copy of the game system.
#5: Have Fun.
Do I really need to explain this?
Cue the screams of me being an evilspitefulbadwrong GM.
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#4(b): Only citations (Book, Chapter, Page, Paragraph) from physical books available at the game table will be accepted into evidence. S/PRDs, FAQs, and Message boards are never acceptable alternatives at physical games. At least one member [typically the GM] of the group owns a physical copy of the game system.
Why? It's 2014 and you can get to the appropriate online entry in a fraction of the time it takes to look through a book.
Why? It's 2014 and you can get to the appropriate online entry in a fraction of the time it takes to look through a book.
#4(b): Only citations (Book, Chapter, Page, Paragraph) from physical books available at the game table will be accepted into evidence. S/PRDs, FAQs, and Message boards are never acceptable alternatives at physical games. At least one member [typically the GM] of the group owns a physical copy of the game system.
A handful of reasons...
Firstly
A Quote from the PRD Main page...
This compendium is NOT the official Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Players interested in a user-friendly introduction to the Pathfinder system will want to purchase the complete Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, which comes complete with more than 350 monsters to menace your player characters.
Secondly
Limiting it to the books available at the table puts everyone on the same footing (not everyone has equal access to the Web).Thirdly
It saves me from slapping some poor schmuck down when he invariably cites the 3.5 SRD on a rule because it contradicts the PRD (in his favor) Or cites only one of 20 variants of a FAQ.
Fourthly
For some odd reason not every rule is as fully explained in the SRD/PRDs as they are in the physical books.
Fifthly
I am an English/Literature Major...
You must be able to cite your sources properly.
And lastly not every place we game has access to the net.
Also note: I stated that it applies to physical games.
chat/pbp/voice/skype games are a different story (obviously everyone has net access)
It should also be noted that I do not exclude PDFs from admission into evidence.
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A couple house rules I've been considering:
- Shortspears are no longer available (they have been removed from the game); javelins already fulfill the function of a throwing spear.
- Spears may be used in one hand when wielding a shield.
- Longspears are always considered two-handed weapons (they cannot be wielded in one hand when wielding a shield, as above); they are re-named "pikes".
Phalanx soldier fighters would receive a slight hit due to this houserule, but the ability to wield polearms in one hand still makes their 3rd-level ability worthwhile.
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Following the idea of this thread, I'm about to start a new campaign, and want to get opinions on these houserules I've come up with. Suggestions are also welcomed! TIA
Characters
1. Content from Paizo published books are allowed with exceptions and modifications noted below. All other content from sources will not be allowed.
2. Only the core races from the Core Rulebook may be selected.
3. Ability scores are generated by using the Standard Point Buy with 15 points. No score may be reduced below 7 points or raised above 18 points before racial modifiers.
4. Characters cannot have evil alignments.
5. After 1st level, hit points are rolled twice each level, taking the larger result.
6. All equipment, including expensive material components and special material items must be tracked, including the location of these items on the character.
7. Character’s encumbrance must be tracked, though coins, gems, and potions have no appreciable weight.
8. The following has been removed : Campaign Traits in Advanced Player’s Guide, Gunslinger class, Leadership feat, Magical Lineage trait, Mythic Adventures, and Summoner class.
Abilities & Feats
1. Adaptation : This ranger infiltrator ability requires a swift action to activate, and is a free action to deactivate. Adaptations are selected at 3rd, 8th, 13th, and 18th level.
2. Burning Spell : When a creature takes acid or fire damage from the affected spell, that creature takes 50% of the spell’s damage at the start of its next turn. The damage is acid or fire, as determined by the spell’s descriptor. If a burning spell has both the fire and acid descriptor, the caster chooses what kind of damage is dealt by the burning spell effect. A burning spell users up a slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.
3. Improved Rapid Shot : NEW Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6. When making a full-attack action with a bow, you can fire an additional time at your full attack bonus with a –5 penalty.
4. Greater Rapid Shot : NEW Dex 19, Improved Rapid Shot, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +11. When making a full-attack action with a bow, you can fire an additional time at your full attack bonus with a -10 penalty.
5. Manyshot : This feat has been removed.
6. Power Attack : This feat no longer increases the bonus to damage when making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a weapon wielded by two hands, or a primary natural weapon.
7. Smite : This ability no longer provides a bonus to AC and the bonus damage is not doubled against certain creatures.
8. Spell Mastery : This feat may be selected by the alchemist, magus, and witch classes.
9. Spellstrike : The touch spell being delivered when using this ability will only result in a critical threat with a natural 20 on the attack roll (use the same critical threat roll for both damage types [weapon and spell]), while the weapon being used continues to use its own critical threat range.
Magic
1. Auras on magic items will radiate the strength of the caster level, as per the Detect Magic spell, but not the specific school of magic.
2. Potions, scrolls, and spellbooks always radiate faint magic.
3. Bane : This special ability cannot increase the enchantment bonus of a weapon to greater than +5, though the +2d6 damage would still apply.
4. Ring of Force Shield : This item can be activated and deactivated as a move action.
Combat
1. Natural 1 on an attack roll is an automatic miss and does not result in a fumble.
2. Natural 20 on a critical threat roll confirms the critical hit and allows for an additional critical threat roll to increase damage multiplier by one.
3. Reach weapons use the 3.5 rules regarding which squares are threatened.
4. Light weapons cannot be wielded with two hands.
5. Using a full-round action to stand up from being prone will not provoke attacks of opportunity.
6. Retrieving an item from backpack requires full-round action and will provoke attacks of opportunity.
7. Ammunition may be recovered in most situations without the 50% chance of it being destroyed or rendered unusable, regardless of whether it struck its target.
8. If ammunition is individually enchanted, the enchantment will be dispelled immediately after the ammunition hits its target and deals it effects. The enchantment remains active as normal if the ammunition misses its target.
9. Attacks of opportunity are not triggered by involuntary movement, such as falling, being pushed, or being pulled, except in situations where an ability or feat indicates otherwise.
Miscellaneous
1. An NPC crafter may craft a magical item at a rate of 1 day per 8,000 gp. Characters can craft an item in half the normal time with their normal skill check (1 day per 2,000 gp). Characters may “rush” the crafting time to craft an item in one-quarter the normal time (1 day per 4,000 gp); doing so increases the DC to create the item by +5. For example, a 5,000 gp magic item will take one day to crafted by an NPC, while a character 3 days (2 days rushing) to craft the same item (all fractions of a day are rounded up).
2. After first level, starting gold for new characters will be determined using the Character Wealth by Level table for a character one level less than the character’s starting level. No single item may be over 50% of the starting gold. The character may use any item creation feats selected as part of its build to create items at the normal reduced cost.
Furthermore…
1. It is highly recommended all players read the Player’s Guide associated with this campaign.
2. If something that proves to be unbalanced, the player may be asked to modify or replace the option in question.
3. These guidelines are subject to change as necessary for the campaign. All opinions are welcomed.
Half of these are not houserules and most of the other half are nerfs to things that don't need to be nerfed (like Power Attack and Smite).
15 PB with no stats under 7 is terrible, it results in especially weak martial characters and makes MAD classes pretty much unplayable. It also precludes having a stat over 18 anyway (since you need 17 points for a pre-racial 18) so the last part is redundant.
I don't like them.
Half of these are not houserules and most of the other half are nerfs to things that don't need to be nerfed (like Power Attack and Smite).
15 PB with no stats under 7 is terrible, it results in especially weak martial characters and makes MAD classes pretty much unplayable. It also precludes having a stat over 18 anyway (since you need 17 points for a pre-racial 18) so the last part is redundant.
I don't like them.
A little less harsh, eh? It may not be how you want to play, it just signifies a lower power game. If his players are okay with it, then what's the problem?
As far as the 18 limit, it is reachable: 8, 9, 10, 10, 10, 18. Mind you I certainly wouldn't play with these rules, but I am not going to say they are wrong.
Also, while several are not house rules (mostly because of errata), it is far less than half. And further, I appreciate many of the so called "nerfs", they have some merit. For instance, the limit on Power Attack not increasing with two-handers. I LOVE my two-handed power attacks, especially with Furious Focus (duh!). But, it makes weapon and shield even more milk-toast than it already is. PF's Power Attack rewrite was on the one hand, the savior of sword and board, and on the other, it buried it forever. I now only use a shield build if I don't care about doing damage at all.
I like some, but not others.
My bad, I read "no stats under 7" and saw "no stats under 10" in my head even as I wrote it. Not as bad then, since that is essentially just 15 PB that mildly screws characters with a racial -2 in a dump stat (though I still don't like 15 PB).
Also, it doesn't kill Sword and Board. Look at it for a sec.
Two-Handed Weapon: 1.5x Str to damage, 1.5x Power Attack to damage.
Sword and board (and any TWFing really): 1x Str to damage on main hand, .5x Str to damage on off-hand. Total 1.5x Str to damage (2x with Double Slice). 1x Power Attack to damage with main hand, .5x Power Attack to damage with off-hand. Total 1.5x Power Attack to damage.
It was done that way for a reason.
With his houserule, the symmetry is lost, for no discernible reason.
Sword and Board has more defense, and less offense. That's a feature, not a bug. But it also has more damage potential if all your attacks hit.
Of course, TWFing kinda sucks for most characters since you don't get the defense boost but that's not because of Power Attack.
I wasn't trying to be harsh, he just asked and I said I didn't like them (and that some were unnecessary). He's free to play however he likes, but he DID ask.
I started a thought exercise a while back, and I think there are a lot of instances where I want to flatout remove stat prereqs for feats(like two weapon fighting or eldritch heritage) or allow alternative choices of stats for prereqs, like wisdom for combat expertise.
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Yes, I DID ask. :) Thank you, Rynjin. And thank you, Can'tFindthePath.
I didn't realize many of my "house rules" were already RAW. I would be interested to know which ones, so I can trim down what I'm handing out. I'd rather not hand out a "book" of rule changes when my campaign starts. :) Might as well as write my own gaming system at that point.
Regarding Power Attack, you are both correct in this rule is trying to push character to use more sword & board configurations. I was adopting this rule from my friend in a campaign he's currently running. Honestly, I've been on the fence whether to change it from RAW.
Regarding the 15 Point Buy, I currently run with 5-6 players in Pathfinder Adventure Paths. We just finished Carrion Crown with the same point buy and the characters practically breezed through the final encounter... even after I had the last boss teleport away and return to "full strength" in the matter of 5 minutes for "revenge". I know that 15 points is on the lower power side, but I understand the Adventura Paths is meant for 4 players with a 15 Point Buy system. How much of a difference would 20 Point Buy be?
The other items I'm on the fence about (again from my friend's campaign) is removing Many Shot and adding Improved Rapid Shot and Greater Rapid Shot (as noted in my list)?
Thanks again for all your input.
20 PB really doesn't change a whole lot. You'll need to beef up some monsters, and tweak some things, but you should be doing that anyway with APs.
Your team probably breezed through CC because they're tactically efficient, or because you aren't (no offense, it takes a lot of getting used to to make monsters act tactically) not because of any mechanics-based power scale.
Improved Rapid Shot and Greater Rapid Shot I'm not a fan of. They essentially come out to "Better Manyshot", so you're buffing the best combat style (archery) and nerfing the second best (two-handed) which I don't like a whole lot.
As for stuff from your houserules that is already RAW:
1. Natural 1 on an attack roll is an automatic miss and does not result in a fumble.
2. Potions, scrolls, and spellbooks always radiate faint magic.
4. Light weapons cannot be wielded with two hands.
9. Attacks of opportunity are not triggered by involuntary movement, such as falling, being pushed, or being pulled, except in situations where an ability or feat indicates otherwise.
Stuff that is, for the most part, RAW:
6. All equipment, including expensive material components and special material items must be tracked, including the location of these items on the character.
7. Character’s encumbrance must be tracked, though coins, gems, and potions have no appreciable weight.
Don't forget that Sword and Board is probably already the best kind of TWFing because of Shield Master.
Yes, I DID ask. :) Thank you, Rynjin. And thank you, Can'tFindthePath.
I didn't realize many of my "house rules" were already RAW. I would be interested to know which ones, so I can trim down what I'm handing out. I'd rather not hand out a "book" of rule changes when my campaign starts. :) Might as well as write my own gaming system at that point.
Regarding Power Attack, you are both correct in this rule is trying to push character to use more sword & board configurations. I was adopting this rule from my friend in a campaign he's currently running. Honestly, I've been on the fence whether to change it from RAW.
Regarding the 15 Point Buy, I currently run with 5-6 players in Pathfinder Adventure Paths. We just finished Carrion Crown with the same point buy and the characters practically breezed through the final encounter... even after I had the last boss teleport away and return to "full strength" in the matter of 5 minutes for "revenge". I know that 15 points is on the lower power side, but I understand the Adventura Paths is meant for 4 players with a 15 Point Buy system. How much of a difference would 20 Point Buy be?
The other items I'm on the fence about (again from my friend's campaign) is removing Many Shot and adding Improved Rapid Shot and Greater Rapid Shot (as noted in my list)?
Thanks again for all your input.
Well I apologize if I misinterpreted Rynjin. The tone that I read seemed a bit judgmental, I guess it's not explicit. Sorry.
Regarding Sword and Board: I really don't like TWF as written, and I like even less the reliance on it to balance two-handed fighting. What if I don't want only TWF or THF in my campaign. I think THF is a strong enough choice with the Str damage bump on it's own. Add in Power Attack, and it becomes a false choice. Why wouldn't you do that? I like to make feats more fair and even in the benefits they grant, rather than stacking and playing off of the basic choices. It just leads to power creep....or in some cases, power CHARGE!
For example, my group has altered Improved Critical, as well as keen, to increase the threat range of a weapon by 1, rather than double the threat range (the choice and benefit of the various weapons threat/crit multiplier are still valid). But, we also let them stack. What this does is even out the benefit of taking the feat, and at the same time it doesn't allow the magic to obviate the feat. And finally, it eliminates an annoying special rule that isn't intuitive: Imp Crit, keen, and other special abilities all have language that say they don't stack with other things that modify threat range. I hate that.