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My house rules:
Ability Damage: We use the 3.5 version of this rule: ability damage reduces ability modifiers accordingly. Ignore the Pathfinder rule that says “For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.”
Thus, a single point of ability damage will lower the ability modifier for a stat of say, 12, but not for one of 13. I do this to show that a 13 is better than a 12.
Trapfinding is a Feat: Any class may choose the Rogue class feature “Trapfinding” as a feat. It is a “General” feat, for purposes of those classes which gain bonus feats (e.g Fighter Combat feats or Wizard Item Creation feats). This is intended to allow parties without Rogues to still have a trap specialist. Characters will still need to put points into the Perception and Disable Device skills to take proper advantage of this feat.
[And after having read this thread, I think I'm going to try the "Combat Maneuvers only provoke AoOs on failure" option. I think that might increase the odds of the maneuvers being attempted...I want to see if it makes combats a bit more lively.]
Stealth is not supposed to give you ability to sneak attack.
Being denied dexterity and being flanked opens you up for sneak attack.
And if you cannot see the person attacking you, you are denied Dex to AC.
Whether this be because of Stealth, Invisibility, or Darkness, this is the case.
"Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC."
Stealth is a special condition that makes targets unaware of you, regardless of combat starting or not.
They are flatfooted. Therefore you can Sneak Attack them.
Such a severe parsing of the text should not be necessary to prove to you that you can Sneak Attack while SNEAKING.
If you manage to enter Stealth in combat, and stay in stealth until you are adjacent to your opponent, you can Sneak Attack in combat.
Just as if you were invisible, or had Darkvision in a dark room while your opponent does not.
Feel free to houserule as you like, this is the thread for that.
But don't try to argue that your houserules are how the rules actually work, please.
My house rules:
Ability Damage: We use the 3.5 version of this rule: ability damage reduces ability modifiers accordingly. Ignore the Pathfinder rule that says “For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.”
Thus, a single point of ability damage will lower the ability modifier for a stat of say, 12, but not for one of 13. I do this to show that a 13 is better than a 12.
The Pathfinder doesn't change the value of 13 over 12. Whether you have a 12 or a 13 one point of damage does nothing, and two points give's you an effective -1 to all stats derived from that ability.
However, if you have a 12, one point of damage stills has no effect, whereas in your houserule (a reversion to the 3.5 rule), one point would give you that effective -1 penalty.
I actually like it your way better, because PF's way is unnecessary for groups like mine, who had been using the old rule for 9 years. I believe it was conceived as a simplification for altering stats on the fly. And it serves that purpose for those who run from the stats on the sheet, and don't want to think about the numbers they used to arrive there.
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Stealth is not supposed to give you ability to sneak attack.
Being denied dexterity and being flanked opens you up for sneak attack.And if you cannot see the person attacking you, you are denied Dex to AC.
Whether this be because of Stealth, Invisibility, or Darkness, this is the case.
Darkness grants concealment, in which a character can make a stealth check to make a character unaware. However that stealth check is made vs the perception of anyone who is around. If he passes and stays in that concealed area he can stay stealthed therefore making a character unaware. However I would say if the stealthed character were to attack, he breaks stealth and would need another stealth check to not be heard.
"Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC."Actually the whole rule goes like this.
Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.In other words if both have already acted. They are no longer flat footed.
Stealth is a special condition that makes targets unaware of you, regardless of combat starting or not.Yes. However it is made versus a perception check.
They are flatfooted. Therefore you can Sneak Attack them.If they are still unaware.
Such a severe parsing of the text should not be necessary to prove to you that you can Sneak Attack while SNEAKING.***Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make and attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).***
I shouldn't have to use severe parsing of the text. Since there is already a rule where it specifically says, you have to make a stealth check when you leave cover. If you fail the target becomes aware of you, therefore no longer flat footed.
If you manage to enter Stealth in combat, and stay in stealth until you are adjacent to your opponent, you can Sneak Attack in combat.Yes. Correct. Hell I've actually even made the rule more lenient, in the sense that if he can 5-foot step and reach the target, he can make a sneak attack without giving a the target a chance at a perception check.
Just as if you were invisible, or had Darkvision in a dark room while your opponent does not.I don't know why people keep using invisibility as an example. If you were to be in an empty lit up white room that had four walls ceiling and a floor. If you were to place a character in the middle of it that had invisibility; Would you see him? If the same scenario and someone tried a stealth check; would you see him? That is the inherent difference in both of those conditions. Even invisibility is not perfect, but there is such a HUGE difference in both conditions, that one gives the other from +20 to +40 into a stealth check. That is why targets loose their dex bonus from an invisible character.
Feel free to houserule as you like, this is the thread for that.
But don't try to argue that your houserules are how the rules actually work, please.
This argument is exactly why I house rule it. People interpret the rules differently or ignore certain written parts of, and I want to make it clear before someone gets upset.
Stealth if successful lets you sneak attack. Ability damage causes you to operate with minuses till you have time to recrunch the numbers. If fighting over semantics is your idea of fun, go join the debating team.
To be fair, semantics, once pointed out, can potentially drastically change the context of an argument.
I have thought of making a non-cursed version of the oracle (basically just removing the curse feature), and also creating a dual-mystery archetype (similar to the sorcerer's crossblooded). Not sure how strong (or weak) a dual-mystery oracle would be, when the archetype would function basically exactly like the crossblooded sorcerer archetype.
No ... having a map lets you do both.You trade accuracy for narrative and interesting description.
In my experience having a map just encourages players to think two-dimensionally, and push their minis around the board without interacting or asking about:
- The pile of rope in the corner
- The tankard of strange brew on the table
- What is under the bench?Also, drawing interesting miniature level maps takes time and causes a loss of momentum at the table. Printing miniature level maps costs money and, again in my experience, doesn't really improve the gameplay.
I'm not saying it's for everyone, but for groups that have [u]a high level of trust between players and GM[/u], give it a go.
And therein lies the true issue against Theater of the Mind...
It requires the players trust the GM.And there is damn little of that these days.
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How many people are even capable of keeping nearly a dozen characters visualized, and keep their spatial relations to one another and their surroundings straight, while performing other mental tasks at the same time?
I am.
I was always really good at Geometry and Geometry related things.
Sucked at Calculus though. Except calculating vectors and graphing (like drawing pictures on the calculator type graphing).
I envy anyone who can do that, because I sure as hell can't. And that's even before getting involved with "How much HP does X have" "who's turn is it" and the other things everyone needs to keep up with.
I'm outright too visually oriented. I have to see something. Even if it's just dots on a sheet of blank white paper.
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How many people are even capable of keeping nearly a dozen characters visualized, and keep their spatial relations to one another and their surroundings straight, while performing other mental tasks at the same time?
In a fight the other night my 13th level PCs fought a flying ship with:
40 x Clockwork Soldiers
48 x Clockborg Wyverns
48 x Wyvern Riders
I have 6 PCs, three of which were capable of summoning 3 more Lightning Elementals.
You don't need to keep track of exact positions. Here's what my little Initiative scratch pad looked like (roughly):
Initiative
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VanDyre (Alchemist)
Jhod (Cleric)
Kif (Druid)
Clockborg Wyverns (x24)
Isahn (Wizard)
Clockwork Soldiers (x40)
King Doc (Cavalier on a Pegasus Mount)
Caleb (Magus)
Players teleport into the sky above the airship, flight spells and abilities already pre-cast. They use the sun as cover, and I roll a couple of spot checks for the Soldiers who are crewing the ship (the wyverns are in the lower holds). With the sun glare penalty our heroes get a round of surprise.
Surprise Round: VanDyre acts as a bomber, using his Wings discovery, two-weapon fighting and rapid shot to unload as many bombs as he can in a round (5 I think). Clockworks are surprised and their touch AC is being targeted, so he only has to beat AC 10, and the deck is crowded enough even on a miss he'll deal some splash damage. Jhod starts summoning a Lightning Elemental, Kif starts summoning a Lightning Elemental. Ihsahn casts Chain Lightning to devastating effect. King Doc charges a clockwork, rolls a critical and asks me if his charge was powerful enough to bust into the hold (since he gets a free bullrush on a crit). I say yeah no problem. The King is in the hold with the 24 Wyverns, Ruh-Roh. Caleb drops into the hold to support Doc.
Round Up: 20 x Clockwork dead, 15 x with 31 damage.
Positions: Above Ship: Jhod, Ihsahn, Kif, VanDyre. On Deck: 15 x Clockworks. Below Decks: King Doc, Caleb and 24 x Wyverns.
Initiative
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VanDyre (Alchemist)
Jhod (Cleric)
Kif (Druid)
Clockborg Wyverns (x24)
Isahn (Wizard)
Clockwork Soldiers (x20) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (15) (5 undamaged)
King Doc (Cavalier on a Pegasus Mount)
Caleb (Magus)
Round 1: VanDyre drops ANOTHER 5 bombs on the Clockworks, with this many threats on the field he's well justified in Nova-ing. Jhod and Kif both finish summoning 2 Huge Lightning Elementals, which land on the field and just destroy anything they touch, Jhod pings with his bow this round to finish a couple of weakened clockworks, and Kif Wild Shapes into a lightning elemental and joins his/her summon on the field. Wyverns turn, 2 attack Doc and 2 attack Caleb, but their AC is pretty fantastic, one of the Wyvern riders pulls a lever which opens up the sides of the ship, and 20 wyverns take to the skies around the ship.
Ihsahn sees the Wyverns coming, but Jhod tells him to get out of the way as he has a plan, so Ihsahn heads to the steering cabin and uses an illusion to look like a gearforged. Clockworks leap into the hold to attack Doc and Caleb, there's some damage exchanged. Caleb and Doc just start mowing through the clockworks surrounding them.
Round 2 round-up: 8 x Clockwork Soldiers remain. 4 x Clockborg wyverns remain in the hold. 20 x Clockborg wyverns in the skies.
Positions: Air above ship: VanDyre, Jhod. On Deck: 2 x Elementals, Kif, Ihsahn, 4 x Clockwork soldiers.
Below Decks: 4 x Clockborg Wyverns, 2 x Clockwork Soldiers. Doc and Caleb. Kick it.
Initiative
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VanDyre (Alchemist)
Jhod (Cleric)
Kif (Druid)
Clockborg Wyverns (x24) (20 airborn) (4 below decks)
Isahn (Wizard)
Clockwork Soldiers (x8) (15) (15) (15) (5 undamaged)
King Doc (Cavalier on a Pegasus Mount)
Caleb (Magus)
Round 2: VanDyre drinks a potion of Improved Invisibility and moves onto the deck. Jhod readies an action to cast and orders his elemental ready a charge. Kif readies a charge and orders her elemental to do the same. Clockborg Wyverns all do a fly-by breath weapon attack. Jhod casts his spell: Dictum. The Wyverns are neutral evil, and also fail their saves, so the 10 attacking Jhod immediately fall as they are paralyzed, taking 10d6 damage, his elemental then charges a Wyvern. Kif's elemental then charges a Wyvern and so does Kif his/her self. The remaining Wyverns then let off their breath weapons simultaneously. PCs get one Reflex save against 5 wyverns each breathing 5d6 damage (I average the damage so 87 damage or 43 on a successful save, characters with evasion take none). The two wyverns below decks full attack, but a handful of single digit numbers and high AC PCs keep the player safe. Ihsahn heads to the pilot's cabin and uses suggestion to tell the Gearforged pilot to turn the ship around, Gearforged fails the Will save by one (thank you Spell Focus (Enchantment)). Clockworks below decks roll one or two lucky hits, but the damage is manageable thanks to pre-cast stone skins. Doc and Caleb kill a Wyvern below decks.
Round Up: Only 12 Wyverns remain thanks to the Dictum spell, and a couple of good attacks from Kif, elementals, Doc and Caleb.
Positions: Air above: Jhod, Kif, Elementals, Wyverns (x9). On Deck: VanDyre (invisible), x4 clockwork soldiers. Pilot's Cabin: Ihsahn (disguised), 42601 Gearforged Pilot. Upper Hold: Doc, Caleb, Clockborg Wyverns (x3), 2 x Clockwork Soldiers
Initiative
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VanDyre (INVISIBLE) (Alchemist)
Jhod (Cleric)
Kif (Druid)
Clockborg Wyverns (x12) (x9 airborn) (3 below decks)
Isahn (DISGUISED) (Wizard)
Clockwork Soldiers (x6) (15) (5 undamaged)
King Doc (Cavalier on a Pegasus Mount)
Caleb (Magus)
It might seem intimidating at first, but if you're willing to roll a single roll for groups of goons/mooks/minions then it's really not that bad. You're the GM, your job is to adjudicate.
My players trust me to adjudicate if not fairly, then at least in such a way to make the fight as interesting as possible. The next round the lower holds were going to get opened up and 24 more wyverns would pop out. Later in the fight 3 of the 6 heroes would fall to unconsciousness, but a well-planned channeled energy would turn them momentum back to the heroes.
I'm not saying mapless is better, than mapped fights, but in my experience it gives more narrative control to the players and the GM.
I recently read that the Mythic rules let anyone with certain feats create artifacts. While I hope this is a misinterpretation, I want to restate that the GM has the right to veto any magic item, artifact, spell research, class, race, or other thing that might ruin the game for everyone else. They can and should add drawbacks that make it more challenging.
With Mythic Adventures a character can create a single artifact, if they take the Legendary Item path power two (for a minor artifact) or three (for a major artifact) times. They still need to expend gp to add abilities to the item with GM adjudication, other than the Legendary Item abilities.
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As a GM I don't necessarily need maps; I've got the situation in my head. As a player, trying to understand the situation in the GM's head, that's when I often need maps.
It's not just RPGs. If someone gives me directions to go somewhere IRL, I need a map too. A series of instructions may work if they're accurate, like "take a left, then the second right".
Out of a dungeon exploring the world me and the other players ran into some bandits that had a carriage. During the fight I snuck round, climbed atop of it and killed the archers. Something scared the horses while I was up there, wanting to keep the carriage/ect as loot I stayed and tried to work out how to get the horses under control...
The DM told me there was a bend in the road coming up and the carriage was going to go off the road. I thought that it would be a bumpy plain or the likes and made sure to get a good hand hold... Off the road for the DM = off a cliff. Some of the loot was explosive and it was a very high cliff... Time to roll a new character.
Moral of the story is that not all people imagine the same thing if given the same vague description. You may all be successfully imagining a full / working / Highly detailed Dungeon, but I guaranty its not exactly the same. Sure you can explain things in more detail, but that takes time; and you may land up wasting time explaining stuff no one is going to make use of just because you though they would. Even a simple picture is worth a thousand words, you can convey the same info faster.
That is my 2cp anyway.
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Everyone keeps bringing up 'vague description.' There should be nothing vague about mapless combat, if there is then the players are being screwed out of details they should have/it becomes impossible for everyone to envision the same scene because everyone fills in the blanks differently.
More time spent is describing things the slower combat goes. People already complain about how long they have to wait for their turn. As I said a picture is worth a thousand words.
Even if you give what you think is a good description, people will still envision slightly different things. Its the nature of language; Ever played Chinese whispers, not everyone hears the same thing.
I remember when this thread was about house rules--ah, those were the days.
I remember when this thread was about house rules--ah, those were the days.
Getting back on thread then...
MY House RulesAll magic users are spontaneous casters.
Combat maneuvers only invoke an AoO on a failure.
There are many others but they are often setting/campaign specific.
I use a gridless map. A 5' space is 1" on the table. Aoe cones can have distance cut in half to double the width of the cone.
No initiative in general. Each player describes their actions for the round, I describe how it all works out. On the rare cases where I must know who acted first, I roll initiative for that case alone. (this is for pbp games. around the table I just pick left or right and play passes that direction)
I use spellpoints, the vitalizing option from Unearthed Arcana.
I use a trade skill which rolls craft, perform, and profession into one and adjust the base stat depending on use. A blacksmith can roll with int to make a specific item or use the same skill with wis for doing a week's worth of blacksmithing work, etc. (this came from someone elsee on the boards but I dont remember who)
I also use the athletics skill instead of swim and climb.
Skills that are rolled into one, such as perception, acrobatics, etc, can be specialized for a particular sub use of that skill. Perception can gain a specialization for sight for example. The specialization basically can gain it's own ranks up to the number the base skill has, and those ranks can be included to the base skill bonus when the specializations is applicable. Thus at first level one could have 1 rank in perception plus 1 rank in hearing and when listening, the player would get +1 above the normal for using perception.
Casters roll a spellcraft check for each spell. This check determines the caster level of the spell for that casting. This check also modifies the DC. This makes spellcasting more variable. Rolling a 1 means the spell fizzles or backfires (based on the fumble roll). Rolling a 20 gains an advantage based on what the is.
Doh! I forgot to include jump.
However your method makes a jump too far, too easily though, besides dex wont make you jump farther, only more accurate. Generally a good idea is to use str when trying for distance or height and dex when accuracy is important, such as jumping onto a thin beam or jumping to grab a loose and dangling rope, etc.
After 3.5 jumping has been too easy anyway, no need to make it worse.
Jumping is too easy?
Hwat?
You should read "Calibrating your expectations" by The Alexandrian.
If you look at the skills and other non-combat* aspects of DnD 3.0, you'll find that things match reality pretty close with level 5 characters as the max you'll find on earth. Einstein? A level 5 physicist. An Olympic athlete? Level 5.
In 3.0, jumping, if maxed out at level 5, would match pretty well with what professional world class athletes could do, but in 3.5 jumping was simplified, which means it effectively got a +5 boost to the long jump.
So yes, jumping is too easy.
*Combat has no place being even remotely realistic at that would get very unfun, real quick. Seems some folks were smart enough to get things right on that front.
Hmm, world record high jump is less then 10'(2.45 m (8 ft 1⁄2 in) Javier Sotomayor (CUB), Salamanca, Spain, 27 July 1993) and yet you're complaining that a monk can't jump more then 15'?
8' high jump DC 32,
d20 +5 ranks +3 ability +3 class skill = 12-31
Hmm, pretty close as is on that high jump. Guess Javier Sotomayor had a +2 from a feat.
That's what Take 10 is for.
That's another thing that bugs me about how this game works. The d20 creates such a massive gap between a 'good try' and a 'bad try.' To use Javiar as an example, I HIGHLY doubt he ever jumped less than 7 feet during his warmups/practice runs, but under the rules of this game his results over repeated leaps would have been all over the board.
Makes me wonder if maybe yanking the d20 out and replacing it with 2d6 in some areas might not be a good idea. (Obviously numbers will need adjustment to compensate.)
Use 3d6, no need to adjust... Full rules here.