How did your Giants' attack on Sandpoint go?


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I'm getting ready for Stones Over Sandpoint, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on how it went for your group... tips... shortcomings... favorite/least favorite parts, etc. Thanks!


I just started this combat with my group. Unfortunately we only started the encounter half-way through a session and I knew there was no way we could finish with the time we had left. As such, I made sure to keep very careful track of the combat by writing everything down, round by round.

The party had been occasionally scrying on Teraktinus since they got his name from Mokmurian's note to Barl Breakbones, so they knew which day the giants would launch their attack, they just didn't know exactly when on that day. So I gave them the Perception check it notes in the book to detect the giants as they approach Sandpoint. They failed, so they didn't know the giants had arrived until the north gate came under siege. This was when I started keeping round-by-round track of spells.

I knew there were two possibilities. Either the PCs didn't detect the giants until they attacked, or they succeeded on the Perception check and saw them coming and had a few minutes of prep time. If they had succeeded on the Perception check, my record keeping would have had to include an extra dozen of spell casts. My PCs love to pre-cast all those minutes/ten-minutes per level spells. I think we ended up with the best option - the PCs knew the giants were coming but couldn't narrow it down to a time frame small enough to pre-buff with anything other than hour-per-level spells.

So as soon as the giants attack, they started casting spells and running about. I made a chart that goes round-by-round to keep track of: Spells casts, Duration of Active Spells, Position of each PC and their move speed, and when each event happens throughout the combat. As soon as the second event occured (the giants and bears at Tanner's Bridge) the party instantly split up into two groups. Then the dragon attacked. At this point neither of the two groups of PCs had completely dealt with their situations so at the start of our next session, I could be dealing with three separate combats.

Looking at the encounter timeline, unless your group is extremely well organized and optimized there will definitely be different events happening at the same time in Sandpoint, but its up to your PCs whether they'll split the party or not.

Although we haven't gotten very far, I definitely have a favorite moment. The fighter, magus, and ranger all ran to Tanner's Bridge as the giants and bears attacked. The fighter and magus ran up and bottle-necked the bridge. Generally the ranger is one of the most damaging characters with his full-round archery attacks. This time, however, he's decided to try out his new Ring of Animal Friendship that he got from Fort Rannick in Hook Mountain Massacre. The visual gave us all a laugh - the fighter and magus engaged in full-on melee against giants and dire bears while the ranger is in the back waving his ringed hand in the general direction of the bears. So far he's devoted three rounds to using the ring - to no result.

Oh, also, I don't know if it says anything about it in the book but I gave the PCs a Perception check to notice the dragon's approach. Then I realized how surprisingly difficult it would actually be given the DC for a Perception increases by +1 per 10' So if the dragon is 200 feet away that adds +20 to the DC to spot him.

Hope any of this helps!


I haven't gotten nearly there yet, but I expect this map that was posted to the Community Created Stuff thread will be very helpful when I do: Siege Map


I built a ton of cardstock buildings and used a modular pre-painted river, some bridges, several flip-mats, cardstock streets, walls and gate, modular wargaming hills, etc etc and built a 1"=10' (-ish) model of the town, just the main streets and the major buildings. It took up several folding tables, but we rented a cabin for the weekend for this anyway. Almost all of the party converged on the main gate/cathedral, and were out of position for the main attack. The wizard tried to teleport them closer to the action, but ended up misjumping to the swampy area on the other side of the river. They were able to stop all of the giants except the ones hitting the manor houses and the ones on the south end, which let the giants flee with about a dozen unnamed NPCs and half that named (Ameko, Mayor Deverin, the paladin brewer, etc). They drove Longtooth off (barely) and then had a merry chase across the land to Jorgenfist for a rescue mission-style next chapter.


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While I'd love to say my party wasn't "optimized", they had two spontaneous casters with Dimension Door (Sorcerer and Bard), a Barbarian with a two-handed weapon (damage enough to kill a giant a round), and a Paladin with an AC high enough to give the giants conniption fits, and who stepped on Longtooth like, yes, a worm.

So my party had:
(a) The mobility to attack each assault as it arrived, and
(b) The damage output to eliminate that threat within 3 rounds.

That combination was utter obliteration for the giants; Taraktanus showed up amid a flurry of fireballs from the sorcerer and a Smite Evil from the paladin. It was a short, brutally one-sided battle.

So, as I posted on Gluttony's thread, if you have a very mobile party, you need to reduce the round count or your giants are all going to die horribly.

On the other hand, I've read many, many other threads where the party's best transportation was horses (if that), in which case I'm sure the round count works much better.


Thanks, everyone. I'll definitely need a good map, and I'll need a flow chart for sure.


Did anyone run this with NPCs? I'm really curious how it would go!

Dark Archive

Even though the dragon isn't using stealth, the -4 penalty for size could apply on perception checks. The same goes for the stone giants.

By level 10, they should have +/-13 in perception? (10 ranks, class skill, no other bonuses, this should be the bare minimum. An elf ranger would have at least 17) On average they would roll 23.5 which would be an average of 275 ft. For a party of four, this would increase as they roll not once but 4 times. Add to this some alert commoners and it might be less of a problem than you think.


It will be probably half a year before I reach this point (the Skype group games probably every three weeks and they're about to start Book 3 probably in January, seeing I'm doing a sidetrek with Nualia becoming a half-fiend using the Runewell underneath Sandpoint for Saturday's game). That said... I've a Irrisen Sorceress with her Ninja-maid Cohort, a half-orc scholar Barbarian who does so much damage with two-handed weapons that I've taken to giving enemies Mythic Tiers to have a chance, a halfling Bard/Cleric with her wolf-riding Paladin Cohort, an Eldritch Knight crafter, and the NPC Arcane Trickster. They've already steamrollered just about every encounter (Xanesha was the closest thing to a real threat, and I gave HER three Mythic Tiers and rebuilt her as a Sorceress).

So the Giants are toast. Even before we get to that point I know they're toast. I'll probably increase Longtooth's age by a category (and maybe give him a couple class levels) and double the number of giants (and increase hit points by 50%). Even with that I'm willing to bet it will end with the Giants in full retreat - while he's not done it yet, the EK is talking about building everyone Boots of Flight, while the Sorceress is eyeing a Broom of Flight.

Of course, the one thing to realize is that Players never do what's expected. Sometimes you expect the best... and they end up fumbling through (my RoW campaign had the Players acting as if they were under a Feeblemind spell, and among them was a player who frequently impressed me with his cunning in previous campaigns... though that WAS almost a decade ago).

Dataphiles

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

We are running this with npc's and so far we are just getting crushed.


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Tourq wrote:
I'm getting ready for Stones Over Sandpoint, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on how it went for your group... tips... shortcomings... favorite/least favorite parts, etc. Thanks!

I'd recommend that you use the round-by-round progression as a guideline rather than a rigid schedule. You want the raid to be hectic, dramatic and exciting... you don't want your PC's arriving too late for everything because you had to stick to the countdown.

As for us, our group consisted of:

Human 9th level Arcane Duelist / 2nd level Divine Hunter
The leader of the group and their 'face' in Sandpoint. He is archery focused with a broader selection of spells than most Bards. In combat he serves as the group's primary buffer and healer.

Human 10th level Invulnerable Rager & Urban Barbarian / 1st level Unbreakable Fighter
One of the two strongest martial builds we've had. He's a threat in melee and at range and at this point has DR 12/- to go with a solid AC and excellent saves.

Kitsune 11th level Sorceress (Fey)
It was right around this time that this character really began to shine. At 11th level she has just gained her both her Dominate Person and Hold Monster spells each of which had an incredibly high DC (DC:27) and gave her a distinct advantage when dealing with Giants in particular.

Goblin 9th level Brawler / 2nd level Master of Many Styles
The second of the strongest martial builds we've had as a group - Sketch (the Kitsune's name was Llyra and the two of themselves played off of the Lilo & Stitch meme) was a cross between the Tasmanian Devil and Yoda circa Ep II. He's still a level away from his third set of iteratives but even at this point he had four attacks per round (+24/+24/+19/+19) as well as the full Crane Line, Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes. He was almost impossible to hit in melee and could burrow through a single Giant in two rounds or less.

The group also had with them a leveled up Shalelu (2nd level Fighter / 8th level Ranger) whom had taken Giants as her second favored enemy after Hook mountain.

Looking at the group, I judged the threat facing Sandpoint inadequate, so I added a giant to some of the encounters and put in a handful of roving gangs of local Ogres whom had been pressed into service (three groups of 2-3 which could be encountered anywhere in the city once it had been breached, using the 5th level Ogre Fighters found on page 149 of the Anniversary Ed.). I also boosted Teraktinus, giving him another 4 levels of Ranger, including the feats Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Iron Will and Improved Iron Will. I really wanted him to be a challenge and it was my hope that enough of the raiding party would survive that the PC's could pursue them once they had fled with several notable NPC's as captives. This is how the battle went:

The PC's arrived in Sandpoint a little more than a week before the attack thanks to the Sorceress's newly acquired Teleportation spell. They enjoyed a good relationship with Deverin, Hemlock and Zantus and as such were able to convince them of the threat that faced Sandpoint. Word was sent to Magnimar in the hopes of getting help as well as to the Druids of Thistletop with whom the PC's were allied (6th level druids, a half-elf and a dwarf, whom had claimed Thistletop as their own with the aid of the PC's). Contingency plans were made including a couple of ships commandeered to evacuate the old and the young by sea beyond rock-throwing range should the attack come and eventually to Thistletop if necessary. The townsfolk began organizing themselves into groups to defend their homes - a few with class levels were appointed as leaders and given specific responsibilities but it was understood that the bulk of the fighting should fall on the PC's. Ameiko at the Dragon and Zantus at the Cathedral would serve as collection points for the wounded. Signals via Silent Image flares were set up to alert the PC's to areas that were under attack.

When the attack came, aid had yet to arrive from Magnimar but the Druids had come and it was they, speaking with animals, whom had detected the giant's approach and were able to give some warning. The Bard and Shalelu were positioned at the Northgate, the Barbarian and the Druids were at Tanner's Bridge while the Goblin and the Sorceress were at the bridge to the south.

The Northgate Siege
The battle kicked off here with three Stone Giants throwing rocks while the Bard and Shalelu exchanged arrow fire while the Bard used Inspire Courage. Other guards on the wall did the same but they were largely ineffective. This continues for a number of rounds with either side only able to do minimal damage to the other until the Dragon's arrival.

Chaos at Tanner's Bridge
Two Stone Giants and three Dire Bears wade across the river to press the attack. One of the Druids specializes in weather and harries the Giants with a Call Lightning spell (which I gave a small area of effect while they're in the water). The other specializes in animals and manages to use the spell Dominate Animal to turn one and then a second Dire Bear on one of the Giants. The Barbarian (buffed with a Bull's Strength spell and a Barkskin spell) kills the third Dire Bear before facing the two injured Giants as they emerge from the river. That battle continues for a number of rounds, resulting in their deaths as well. The injured Dire Bears, free of their compulsion, are Charmed by the Druid and sent on their way.

Dragonfire Inferno
Longtooth sweeps in and breathes fire on the Sandpoint Garrison. This was a big deal when it happened as the PC's had no idea they'd be dealing with a dragon (their first of the campaign) nor any plans on how to deal with someone who has air superiority. At the first appearance of the dragon everyone else is too busy to deal with the threat and they aren't sure how to handle it anyway.

Mill Pond
Teraktinus and his band of three stone giants cross and are seen by the Barbarians and the Druids but they are tied up. After they defeat their foes at Tanner's Bridge they move to pursue, but become distracted by the dragon.

Beer or Death
Three Stone Giants move to cross the bridge here and are met by Skitch, a lone goblin standing astride their path. It led to some funny moments actually, as they moved to sweep him aside and he immediately killed the first one in a single round (including a nice critical) - their response was similar to the knights in Monty Python's The Holy Grail (that rabbit's dynamite!). At any rate, that bought time for the Sorceress to Dominate both of the survivors, and the four of them moved away from the bridge to deal with the threats that had made it into town. They encounter a roving pack of ogres menacing the townsfolk gathered at the Rusty Dragon and defeat them before heading towards the sounds of Longtooth's destruction.

Looting the Scarnetti Manor
The PC's do not notice the attack on Scarnetti Manor until after the raid.

Back at the Northgate Siege when Longtooth appears the giants charge, accompanied by another band of the Ogres. The fighting is hot there and it's not until one of the Ogres (defeated by Sandpoint guardsmen led by Sir Jasper Korvaski) and two of the Giants are slain that the assault relents and the remaining Giant and ogres flee back into the woods. This ties up Shalelu and the Bard for most of the battle. Afterwards they rush to the aid of those gathered at the Cathedral and attempt to put out the fires there.

Meanwhile the Goblin, the Sorceress and her surviving Stone Giant thrall, the Barbarian and the two Druids all meet up at the Sandpoint Theater just before Longtooth alights upon it. He breathes fire upon the theater and snatches up a defiant Cyrdak, gobbling him down. The Sorceress attempts a Hold Monster spell upon him (not knowing Dragons are immune to paralysis) but it fails and Longtooth takes off again to fan the flames with his wings, just as the third group of Ogres enters the square and the PC's are forced to deal with them. He circles once and heads towards the seaward side of town.

Once the Ogres are defeated, it becomes clear that Longtooth has headed for the docks and the PC's, fearful for the evacuees helpless aboard ship at sea, race down to confront the Dragon there. They find him facing down a brave group of guardsmen led by Kaye Teserani and her bodyguards whom had been in charge of one of the evacuation groups. The refugees were unable to board their ship and are now trapped at the burning docks with the guardsmen attempting to buy them time to flee. Longtooth breathes fire on two of the three bodyguards and another guardsman, killing them just as the PC's join the battle. The Barbarian, the Goblin and the Dominated Giant all charge the beast. They manage to injure him enough to drive him off for good, but not before the Giant is killed and the Barbarian severely wounded enough that only the intervention of the Druid's healing manages to save him.

Teraktinus meanwhile manages to stone from the Lost Light and escapes the town with his three Stone Giants, meeting up with the survivors from the gate (a Stone Giant and two Ogres) as well as those who had successfully raided the Scarnetti Manor (three Stone Giants) and the group begins its trek back to Jorgunfist. They've captured a number of townspeople, including Titus Scarnetti himself, Banny Harker from the Lumber Mill, the jeweler Maver Kesk and his wife Pennae as well as Ven Vinder. Once the fires are gotten under control, the PC's are alerted to the fact that the townsfolk were taken prisoner and immediately organize to give chase.

There were some nice dramatic moments in the aftermath of the attack. Shayliss was almost inconsolable, begging the PC's to rescue her father (who hated them), Sir Jasper Korvaski being hailed as a hero for his efforts at the wall only to discover the death of his lover Cyrdak, the lone surviving Shoanti warrior whom Kaye employed at the Pixie's Kitten enacting tribal burial rites and morning rituals for the other two whom were his brothers and so on. I really wanted to impress upon the PC's the loss the town had endured because I felt it would make the rescue of those taken that much more urgent and the rewards of returning them to their families that much greater.


Story Archer, that's a thing of beauty. My players are VERY emotionally invested in the people of Sandpoint, and consider Cyrdak and Jasper to be honorary party members (and sometimes guest PCs), so either one of those two dying would WRECK them. So I'll keep that in mind when they get to this point :)


ajbaker wrote:
Story Archer, that's a thing of beauty. My players are VERY emotionally invested in the people of Sandpoint, and consider Cyrdak and Jasper to be honorary party members (and sometimes guest PCs), so either one of those two dying would WRECK them. So I'll keep that in mind when they get to this point :)

Thanks. I was rather proud of the orchestration of the whole thing.

After Skull n Shackles, this was our very favorite AP. I'm trying to put together a journal from our notes that'll take people step by step through our entire campaign, but its taking a while and I'm not 100% sure that there is demand for yet another RotRL journal...


FWIW, the Druids were a Storm Druid (half-elf) and a Packlord (Dwarf), niether optimized for combat. I had them make their first appearance as acquaintances of Madame Mvashti (who is known to associate with druids from the hinterlands). The PC's had failed to find Malfeshnekor and hadn't discovered or bothered to clear Thistletop of its non-humanoid denizens (the shadows, the giant hermit crab, the bunyip and the tentamort). I didn't want them to miss out on that bit of adventure and I liked the idea of Thistletop being occupied so I introduced this pair who commissioned the PC's aid in clearing out the ruins as well as their assistance in ferretting out the 'evil they sensed lurking still within'.

I ran them like an old married couple, albeit an odd-couple, always arguing about this or that, but absolutely unified when it came to a greater purpose. They served as wardens of sorts for the lands around Sandpoint though they only made appearances rarely, being more sort of eccentric hermits.

Liberty's Edge

******Spoilers, Obviously******
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I re-skinned that attack to happen in Turtleback Ferry, the Capital of my PCs' fiefdom, as they had totally lost interest in Sandpoint at that stage. In my game, Xanesha came riding in on Longtooth and really made that fight a lot more interesting. She had enslaved my PCs after their failure at the Clock Tower only to sink them on the gambling barge a year later and have them free themselves, she then escaped to Ft. Rannick to do her sister's stuff there and escaped that liberation to head to the Skull River Dam only to escape there as well.

At that point in my story, the PCs had heard rumours of giant incursions throughout lower Varisia, including something in Sandpoint, but had not taken steps to investigate. So, the attack on Turtleback Ferry was part diversion (as another group of giants was raiding the Dam for Stone Tell rocks at the time), and part to grab treasure and slaves and get revenge before returning to Jorgenfist.

It was a fun way to run it because I was wrecking blocks of buildings that my PCs had built up - lighting their Town Hall on fire, messing up their Tavern and all that.

Xanesha finally died in the end after taking out the heavily armoured fighter guy who foolishly decided to charge in with no support and try to solo a dragon with a Lamia Matriarch passenger.

There was great rejoicing.


When I ran this, the PCs were the center of things, but I had stat summaries for the town guard members & a few named NPCs who seemed likely to be the types to defend the town. With a few exceptions where NPCs were directly backing up the PCs, I kept the action somewhat abstract. There were a few instances where the NPC back up made a big difference. That smith & his dogs were startlingly effective against the bears for a few rounds, with a little arrow support from the goblin-hating ranger.
Jakardros & Shallelu were also present, & the two teamed up tended to wreck face.
In the end, only two giants & the dragon escaped. They also only managed to kidnap 2 people. 14-16 townsfolk (combattants & noncombattants) were killed, as well as two of the smith's dogs.


The battle for my group was split into four parts. They fortified the HECK out of the town. Lyres of building to be used by Ameiko coupled with both PCs having extensive engineering knowledge.

The fire mage handled the initial giant onslaught. Suffice it to say his great love of Fire in all of its magical forms won that for him. We should have started calling him Blast Shadow.

The unfettered eidolon took on the giants coming from the river. When the giants were in the water the undead made from the remains of the town folks' dead relatives rose and they took them out.

The archaeologist bard with some help from the ballista they had set up took on the dragon. Critically hit with a called shot delivered by a spear.

They then regrouped and faced off against the giant leading the attack. The invasion was repelled with minimal loss to Sandpoint.


The NPC wrote:

The battle for my group was split into four parts. They fortified the HECK out of the town. Lyres of building to be used by Ameiko coupled with both PCs having extensive engineering knowledge.

The fire mage handled the initial giant onslaught. Suffice it to say his great love of Fire in all of its magical forms won that for him. We should have started calling him Blast Shadow.

The unfettered eidolon took on the giants coming from the river. When the giants were in the water the undead made from the remains of the town folks' dead relatives rose and they took them out.

The archaeologist bard with some help from the ballista they had set up took on the dragon. Critically hit with a called shot delivered by a spear.

They then regrouped and faced off against the giant leading the attack. The invasion was repelled with minimal loss to Sandpoint.

So no one had a problem with the undead being used (especially considering they were from Sandpoint)? Not saying it was a bad strategy but surely not everyone was behind this tactic.


Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
The NPC wrote:

The battle for my group was split into four parts. They fortified the HECK out of the town. Lyres of building to be used by Ameiko coupled with both PCs having extensive engineering knowledge.

The fire mage handled the initial giant onslaught. Suffice it to say his great love of Fire in all of its magical forms won that for him. We should have started calling him Blast Shadow.

The unfettered eidolon took on the giants coming from the river. When the giants were in the water the undead made from the remains of the town folks' dead relatives rose and they took them out.

The archaeologist bard with some help from the ballista they had set up took on the dragon. Critically hit with a called shot delivered by a spear.

They then regrouped and faced off against the giant leading the attack. The invasion was repelled with minimal loss to Sandpoint.

So no one had a problem with the undead being used (especially considering they were from Sandpoint)? Not saying it was a bad strategy but surely not everyone was behind this tactic.

There was understandable reluctance to be sure, but the bard made a stirring argument (In character) and then proceeded to get a 40, 40+ on her diplomacy check. Then there was the promise that after the battle they would be put back turned back into regular dead again.


The NPC wrote:
Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
The NPC wrote:

The battle for my group was split into four parts. They fortified the HECK out of the town. Lyres of building to be used by Ameiko coupled with both PCs having extensive engineering knowledge.

The fire mage handled the initial giant onslaught. Suffice it to say his great love of Fire in all of its magical forms won that for him. We should have started calling him Blast Shadow.

The unfettered eidolon took on the giants coming from the river. When the giants were in the water the undead made from the remains of the town folks' dead relatives rose and they took them out.

The archaeologist bard with some help from the ballista they had set up took on the dragon. Critically hit with a called shot delivered by a spear.

They then regrouped and faced off against the giant leading the attack. The invasion was repelled with minimal loss to Sandpoint.

So no one had a problem with the undead being used (especially considering they were from Sandpoint)? Not saying it was a bad strategy but surely not everyone was behind this tactic.
There was understandable reluctance to be sure, but the bard made a stirring argument (In character) and then proceeded to get a 40, 40+ on her diplomacy check. Then there was the promise that after the battle they would be put back turned back into regular dead again.

I get ya.


Seemingly, without a bunch of readied dimension doors or something of that like, your party won't get to all of the events. I more-so used this as an intro to kinda say, "Hey, go after these giants for what they did to sandpoint." To give the whole book a bit of a revenge feel.

My group (not optimized by any means): A Paladin with a ton of defense, a bard who's a glorified buff-mage, an Oracle (flame) and a Fighter (two weapon warrior) with a two bladed sword.

The Bard and the Oracle, along with Sheriff Hemlock and a few guards, took post atop the north wall with bows and magic while the Paladin and Fighter stood to block the gate. They were able to deal with the few giants attacking there rather easily and moved onto the next group (the ones who crossed the river with the dire bears I think.) By the time they finished them off, Teraktinus was already calling off the attack.

I really like Longtooth as an NPC. I had him just fly around out of reach and breathe fire on things, then stopped to watch the PC's fight the giants and bears. Impressed with their combat prowess, I had him join them in the fighting in Jorgenfist. (for 1/5 of all the treasure they found.) Having a greedy, cocky red dragon on their side was a really fun and memorable experience


Actually, if they'd killed the three giants at the Gate and then the giants and their dire bears in the second wave, that would fulfill one of the two requirements needed to call for a retreat. All they need do next is go after the leader (who just spent a bit of time at the Old Light digging through it) or kill/drive off Longtooth, and the Giants retreat.

Scarab Sages

Since one of my players is posting on this board, I need to be a little careful, but as he reported, they are running NPCs for this fight. It's round 14 or 15 and things are SUPER rough. The giants have run of the town and can do whatever they want without any real resistance. At this point, I doubt the NPCs will be able to do anything to prevent Teraktinus's mission from going through, and by the time the party finds out about the siege (they're all hanging in Sandpoint), the giants will be long gone. But, hey, its all fun!

Dataphiles

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

LOL, you still read the forums Bill :-)

I think I have a have an exciting giant for you after sandpoint ;-) I just thought of something.


So I used software to scan and print the map out in a letter paper in a map measuring 3 x 9 sheets of paper (on works color printer of course). I was able to grd the map in a grid measuring 30 feet at scale. I then taped it to a cardboard backing and put that on an easel. I took T pins and labeled them with all of the combatants names.

My players were all pre buffed of course and this helped immensely as almost everyone could fly. Although the non regularly flying PCs would have to land to fight.

For each combat I used a normal battle mat where I would draw out the town and for the most part the PC's smacked the heck outta the giants.
[spoilers]
My favorite bit was an interaction the party had with Jubrayl. In my game he's been a thorn in the side of the PC's and yet he's slippery and the PC's have not been able to pin him down. Anyways at the wagon cart fight Jubrayl and his crew knowing that incriminating evidence was in the cart showed up with bows to "help" the PC's fight the giants. The cart of course is also loaded with spoils and captives from the Scarnetti Manor. This fight was winding down when the PC's noticed the last group of giants making a run for the Old Light. The PC's looked at Jubrayl and said you got this..to which he relied "yes..yes I do". The PC's flew away to fight the last group of giants. Of course the giants that Jubrayl was fighting were sadly able to get away with the cart. No loot or captives were ever seen again. snicker...


Tangent101 wrote:
Actually, if they'd killed the three giants at the Gate and then the giants and their dire bears in the second wave, that would fulfill one of the two requirements needed to call for a retreat. All they need do next is go after the leader (who just spent a bit of time at the Old Light digging through it) or kill/drive off Longtooth, and the Giants retreat.

That's assuming of course that you adhere rigidly to the book's text. I'm fine with allowing the 'rule of cool' to prevail and staying a bit more flexible for dramatic license.

Scarab Sages

Story Archer wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
Actually, if they'd killed the three giants at the Gate and then the giants and their dire bears in the second wave, that would fulfill one of the two requirements needed to call for a retreat. All they need do next is go after the leader (who just spent a bit of time at the Old Light digging through it) or kill/drive off Longtooth, and the Giants retreat.
That's assuming of course that you adhere rigidly to the book's text. I'm fine with allowing the 'rule of cool' to prevail and staying a bit more flexible for dramatic license.

My guys killed four, using NPCs from the town. Actually, they only killed one. I had the town guards kill one they wounded and chased off, and then Darius (posted above), who was running Ameiko, made amazing use of glibness to convince a few more stone giants that they were trying to steal loot from each other. In the following chaos, two stone giants and an owl bear were killed. But, the end objectives of the raid was a roaring success. Still, by having my players run NPCs because their PCs weren't around, it has created some very fun and interesting story lines which could likely play heavily in the PCs advantage if allowed to play out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

It took my group two full sessions to get through. I mapped out the city on a hex grid. When the players traveled between battles I'd move their minis onto the hex grid, then back to the main map when they engaged in combat. They managed to kill all the giants except Teraktinus. The little gnome bard used Charm Person on him while everyone else hid. He picked up his piece of the Old Light and his gnomish friend and ran out of the city. The other party members had to finish taking out the giants who had raided the manor, so the gnome was all by herself. The now "friendly" Teraktinus explained most of what he knew of Mokmurian's plan to her, and then she convinced him to let her down so she could leave. She made it back to Sandpoint in the dead of night, rather exhausted.

The archer ranger attempted to solo Longtooth after the wizard cast Fly on him. It didn't go so well, but he met back up with the party and drove the dragon off. Longtooth got away, so I get to use him again later (with a particular grudge against the ranger).

The party had okay mobility, but had to split into two groups in order to handle everything in time. It worked out okay for them. The group without the healer took quite a beating, but survived long enough to meet back up.

I am loving the progression of this AP.


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Castarr4 wrote:
The little gnome bard used Charm Person on him while everyone else hid. He picked up his piece of the Old Light and his gnomish friend and ran out of the city. The other party members had to finish taking out the giants who had raided the manor, so the gnome was all by herself. The now "friendly" Teraktinus explained most of what he knew of Mokmurian's plan to her, and then she convinced him to let her down so she could leave. She made it back to Sandpoint in the dead of night, rather exhausted.

Cutest use of Charm Person... EVER!!!!!

Darn it! Now I have yet another gnome I have to steal and integrate into my campaign! I swear, I'm going to have a whole passel-o-gnomes party!

What's that called? A 'chaos' of gnomes? (My wife suggests a 'conflagration'.)


NobodysHome wrote:


What's that called? A 'chaos' of gnomes? (My wife suggests a 'conflagration'.)

I think it's probably a 'cacophony of gnomes'.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A murder of gnomes. Which, conveniently, is what you want to do to any sufficiently large group of gnomes.

Scarab Sages

So, the final tally of the Siege was about 10% of the town destroyed. A total of 4 giants and 1 dire bear were killed, and Teraktinus got away with no one the wiser. The only interesting thing was a very interesting use of Glibness to get a group of giants to fight each other (that's where 3 giant deaths and the bear death came from) over treasure and then split into two groups afterwards.

All in all, it was a complete disaster for the party. They have since tracked down and slain one group of giants, recovering the prisoners. Unfortunately, they are none the wiser about ol' "T", who is making his way home to the Black Tower.


William Sinclair wrote:

So, the final tally of the Siege was about 10% of the town destroyed. A total of 4 giants and 1 dire bear were killed, and Teraktinus got away with no one the wiser. The only interesting thing was a very interesting use of Glibness to get a group of giants to fight each other (that's where 3 giant deaths and the bear death came from) over treasure and then split into two groups afterwards.

All in all, it was a complete disaster for the party. They have since tracked down and slain one group of giants, recovering the prisoners. Unfortunately, they are none the wiser about ol' "T", who is making his way home to the Black Tower.

Nicely done! Sounds like that'll light a bit of a fire under 'em to be more proactive in the future...

Scarab Sages

NobodysHome wrote:
William Sinclair wrote:

So, the final tally of the Siege was about 10% of the town destroyed. A total of 4 giants and 1 dire bear were killed, and Teraktinus got away with no one the wiser. The only interesting thing was a very interesting use of Glibness to get a group of giants to fight each other (that's where 3 giant deaths and the bear death came from) over treasure and then split into two groups afterwards.

All in all, it was a complete disaster for the party. They have since tracked down and slain one group of giants, recovering the prisoners. Unfortunately, they are none the wiser about ol' "T", who is making his way home to the Black Tower.

Nicely done! Sounds like that'll light a bit of a fire under 'em to be more proactive in the future...

Oh, it did. Last night's session was an agressive plan/scan/hunt. They're currently assaulting the Storval Stairs and learning why they should under estimate giants. The initial foray of all eight players left two unconscious and one more dead. A scroll of raise dead has since fixed that, but they're very wary now.

While they are unsure if they are ahead or behind ol' "T", they plan on taking the Stairs next session. Interested to see if they'll camp and wait for awhile after that, or move on to the Plateau and attempt to find the Black Tower on their own. Can't say any more, as I know at least one of my players is active on the boards.

Scarab Sages

Story Archer wrote:
Tourq wrote:
I'm getting ready for Stones Over Sandpoint, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on how it went for your group... tips... shortcomings... favorite/least favorite parts, etc. Thanks!

I'd recommend that you use the round-by-round progression as a guideline rather than a rigid schedule. You want the raid to be hectic, dramatic and exciting... you don't want your PC's arriving too late for everything because you had to stick to the countdown.

As for us, our group consisted of:

Human 9th level Arcane Duelist / 2nd level Divine Hunter
The leader of the group and their 'face' in Sandpoint. He is archery focused with a broader selection of spells than most Bards. In combat he serves as the group's primary buffer and healer.

Human 10th level Invulnerable Rager & Urban Barbarian / 1st level Unbreakable Fighter
One of the two strongest martial builds we've had. He's a threat in melee and at range and at this point has DR 12/- to go with a solid AC and excellent saves.

Kitsune 11th level Sorceress (Fey)
It was right around this time that this character really began to shine. At 11th level she has just gained her both her Dominate Person and Hold Monster spells each of which had an incredibly high DC (DC:27) and gave her a distinct advantage when dealing with Giants in particular.

Goblin 9th level Brawler / 2nd level Master of Many Styles
The second of the strongest martial builds we've had as a group - Sketch (the Kitsune's name was Llyra and the two of themselves played off of the Lilo & Stitch meme) was a cross between the Tasmanian Devil and Yoda circa Ep II. He's still a level away from his third set of iteratives but even at this point he had four attacks per round (+24/+24/+19/+19) as well as the full Crane Line, Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes. He was almost impossible to hit in melee and could burrow through a single Giant in two rounds or less.

The group also had with them a leveled up Shalelu (2nd level Fighter / 8th level Ranger)...

And THAT is how the Siege of Sandpoint should be done! Masterful! I wish mine had run half as good, hell, a quarter as good. Awesome job, and a great read!

Scarab Sages

Darius Silverbolt wrote:
We are running this with npc's and so far we are just getting crushed.

Nah, Amieko the rebuilt bard kept is from being a total disaster. It was just mostly a disaster. :D

Scarab Sages

Dragonriderje wrote:
The party had been occasionally scrying on Teraktinus since they got his name from Mokmurian's note to Barl Breakbones

I was wondering if my players would try this, but they failed to see this obvious possibility and therefore never tried it. And paid. And still are.

Dark Archive

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If it helps, here is the gridded Sandpoint Map I cooked up with for the raid. I printed it out and attached it to a big piece of foam board.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's pretty useful, Jimmy! Based upon the scale in the bottom right, that makes each square roughly 20'x20'.

Dark Archive

Yeah. It's 20-30 feet'ish. Not perfect, but I'm tellin my players each square is 30' for their movement and calling it a day.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Definitely close enough! I might stick with 20' squares, since there's inevitably going to be people with 20' move speeds that want to know how far behind they're getting from the people with 30' speeds. I know I'll be stealing this when I get to the Assault on Sandpoint!


Story archer I have to ask, how does your barbarian have dr 12/- already?


I can answer some of that:
- The "Invulnerable Rager" archetype gives you 1/2 your barbarian level as DR, so that would be 5. How he/she can combine that with the Urban Barbarian archetype? GM permission.
- 10th-level barbarians get 2 naturally, and we're up to 7
- At 8th level the barbarian can take increased damage reduction as a rage power and we're at 8
- Add Adamantine heavy armor (the level of fighter allows this) for another 3 and you're at 11.

OK. I can't find the 12th point.

What am I missing, Story Archer?

EDIT: Oops: Invulnerability (Ex): At 2nd level, the invulnerable rager gains DR/— equal to half her barbarian level. This damage reduction is doubled against nonlethal damage. This ability replaces uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and damage reduction.

Now I'm up to missing 3 points...


I get the invulnerable rager part, I actually ask because one of my players is one and he would be very interested in this much DR. And I don't think the DR from armor stacks with the barbarian DR
If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.
Or is there a ruling somewhere that says it does?

I also know there is the extra damage reduction rage power you can take, which increases your DR by 1, but you can only take it 3 times, and you have to be level 8 to qualify for the rage power.

Edit: You actually can combine the Invulnerable rager and Urban barbarian archetypes because they alter different class features.


Mark_Twain007 wrote:

I get the invulnerable rager part, I actually ask because one of my players is one and he would be very interested in this much DR. And I don't think the DR from armor stacks with the barbarian DR

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.
Or is there a ruling somewhere that says it does?

I also know there is the extra damage reduction rage power you can take, which increases your DR by 1, but you can only take it 3 times, and you have to be level 8 to qualify for the rage power.

Edit: You actually can combine the Invulnerable rager and Urban barbarian archetypes because they alter different class features.

I stand corrected in multiple areas; I hadn't seen the bit about DR not stacking, nor the critical, "Characters may take more than one archetype if they meet the requirements". We're a boring bunch, and our dips into archetypes have been catastrophic at best (compare a Greatsword weapons master to a vanilla fighter who focuses his feats on a Greatsword, for example), so I'm obviously not as familiar with the rules for them as I should be.

Anyway, we'll see soon enough where DR 12 came from...


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NobodysHome wrote:
Mark_Twain007 wrote:

I get the invulnerable rager part, I actually ask because one of my players is one and he would be very interested in this much DR. And I don't think the DR from armor stacks with the barbarian DR

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.
Or is there a ruling somewhere that says it does?

I also know there is the extra damage reduction rage power you can take, which increases your DR by 1, but you can only take it 3 times, and you have to be level 8 to qualify for the rage power.

Edit: You actually can combine the Invulnerable rager and Urban barbarian archetypes because they alter different class features.

I stand corrected in multiple areas; I hadn't seen the bit about DR not stacking, nor the critical, "Characters may take more than one archetype if they meet the requirements". We're a boring bunch, and our dips into archetypes have been catastrophic at best (compare a Greatsword weapons master to a vanilla fighter who focuses his feats on a Greatsword, for example), so I'm obviously not as familiar with the rules for them as I should be.

Anyway, we'll see soon enough where DR 12 came from...

Its one of my builds although the poster Martial! Martial! Martial! (aka Damocles Guile) deserves credit as well. Actually its probably our favorite martial build now that Crane Wing has been so ridiculously and thoroughly nerfed. Its been posted on the boards before in greater detail but its also been updated a few times - if anyone is interested in the full build just let me know. In the meantime, to answer the question specific to his DR at that level:

The character takes Stalwart and Improved Stalwart after taking the one level dip in Unbreakable Fighter for the pre-requisites of Diehard and Endurance. He also takes the feat Threatening Defender which combined allows him to gain DR 6/- for a -2 penalty to attack which specifically stacks with the Invulnerable Rager's DR 5/- at that level. Finally, at 9th he took his first Extra Damage Reduction Rage Power, bringing the total up to 12/-.

That's at 11th level. At 12th, the same time he qualifies for Greater Rage, it goes up to DR 14/-. By 16th level its up to DR 20/-.

EDIT: Found the latest version of the build - the Fighter levels come in at 5th and 20th...

Human 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter / 18th level Invulnerable Rager & Urban Barbarian
Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait, Human favored class option for Barbarians

Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 15 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level)
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 12
CHA - 7

Traits:
Threatening Defender (reduce Combat Expertise penalties by 1)
Auspicious Tattoo (+1 Will saves)

Feats & Rage Powers by level:
1st - Combat Expertise
1st - Power Attack
2nd - Superstition
3rd - Combat Reflexes
4th - Lesser Beast Totem
5th - Stalwart
5th - Diehard
5th - Endurance
7th - Deadly Aim
7th - Reckless Abandon
9th - Extra RP: Extra DR
9th - Beast Totem
11th - Improved Stalwart
11th - Greater Beast Totem
13th - Raging Brutality
13th - Come and Get Me
15th - Extra RP: Extra DR
15th - Extra DR
17th - Extra RP: Flesh Wound
17th - Witch Hunter
19th - Extra RP: Eater of Magic
19th - Strength Surge
20th - Toughness

Skills: (6 ranks/Barbarian level, 4 ranks/Fighter level)
Climb* - 1
Swim* - 2
Ride* - 3-4, 6-19
Handle Animal* - 3-4, 6-19
Knowledge: Nature* - 1-20
Survival* - 1-20
Stealth - 1-20
Perception* - 1-20
Craft: Stonemason* - 1-2 (+1/2 character level)


Thanks! Ultimate Combat, of course! Seems like EVERY fighter or barbarian needs Stalwart and Improved Stalwart! Wow!


NobodysHome wrote:
Thanks! Ultimate Combat, of course! Seems like EVERY fighter or barbarian needs Stalwart and Improved Stalwart! Wow!

Well, you sacrifice a lot for it. First of all you need to take two different feats as a pre-requisite in Endurance and Diehard as well as Combat Expertise, so that makes it a five feat chain... and then you take a penalty to attacks similar to the one you get for using Power Attack, so if you try to use them both you're really hurting - we used Reckless Abandon and Threatening Defender to partially mitigate those penalties. It took a long time to get the feats and rage powers so carefully balanced in order to make the build a viable one.

I gotta say though - it really, really rocks when you see it in action. Combined with the high saves from Human + Superstition, the versatility of Urban Barbarian, the wide selection of skills and so on, its really a fun character to play.

EDIT: I personally like the versatility of being a legitimate ranged threat, using Reckless Abandon, Deadly Aim and boosting Dex instead of Strength with Focused Rage... but if one wanted to make a pure melee tank, you can actually get a little more DR a little earlier, and expand your Tankish abilities by adding Dazing Assault later in the build like this:

1st - Combat Expertise
1st - Power Attack
2nd - Superstition
3rd - Combat Reflexes
4th - Lesser Beast Totem
5th - Stalwart
5th - Diehard
5th - Endurance
7th - Extra RP: Beast Totem
7th - Reckless Abandon
9th - Extra RP: Extra DR
9th - Extra DR
11th - Improved Stalwart
11th - Greater Beast Totem
13th - Raging Brutality
13th - Come and Get Me
15th - Dazing Assault
15th - Extra DR
17th - Extra RP: Flesh Wound
17th - Witch Hunter
19th - Extra RP: Eater of Magic
19th - Strength Surge
20th - Toughness


There it is. We aren't using the Ultimates in our RotR campaign, and we are about to use them for the first time in a serpents skull campaign that we start on Saturday.

Not going to lie Wiggz, that build is sweet, I am going to have to make a similar one sometime.


Mark_Twain007 wrote:

There it is. We aren't using the Ultimates in our RotR campaign, and we are about to use them for the first time in a serpents skull campaign that we start on Saturday.

Not going to lie Wiggz, that build is sweet, I am going to have to make a similar one sometime.

I promise that you won't regret it.

The build really doesn't come into its own until the middling levels, especially when you gain the doubled DR benefits from Improved Stalwart at 11th... but in the early levels, hey - he's a Barbarian. That alone is more than enough to get you through and provide lots of fun.

Most Barbarians eschew AC and just lean on all of those hit points that disappear. That's a bad tactic in my opinion. With Urban Barbarian you don't get those extra hit points, but you don't get the hit to AC either. Until your DR kicks in, Combat Expertise + Threatening Defender gives you a nice AC bump as does Beast Totem, making this character an excellent example of 'layered defenses'.

One quick recommendation - since this character was built as a tank, I suggest using a reach weapon early on to take advantage of Combat Reflexes and gain some free attacks. Lesser Beast Totem gives you the claws necessary to make adjacent AoO's. When you get Come and Get Me, carry a reach weapon and a standard two-handed weapon so that you can use whatever is appropriate for the foe you face.

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