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Since noted here, that you might not be able to ask questions about new FAQ(Stealth errata), I am likely taking a risk.
Still, I have some questions, and will ask them.
Can I choose a Bastard Sword as a Blackblade, if I don't have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat yet?
Does a medium creature wielding a small Bastard Sword treat it as a Light, or One-handed weapon?
Outside of how you are currently wielding the weapon, how will one know whether to treat the Bastard Sword as a One, or Two handed weapon?
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You forgot "why is a bastard sword listed as a two-handed weapon in the FAQ when it is explicitly a one-handed weapon in the core rulebook".
Also, "why can you wield other exotic weapons with a -4 penalty for nonproficiency, but you can't wield a bastard sword which is a one-handed weapon in one hand without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) feat, but the exotic weapon proficiency feat only removes the -4 penalty to attack rolls for non proficiency and does/says nothing about allowing you to wield it in one hand".
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Well, I know the easiest way to have handled the whole thing.
That is not what I talking about.
I am talking about how the Bastard Sword really is some sort of One-handed, Two-handed shapeshifter now, and how to apply that in certain rules situations.
Such as:
Can a Transformative Bastard Sword change into any One-handed, or Two-handed weapon?
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Also forgot to ask if you can take a Bastard Sword as an Heirloom Weapon.
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Does Amiri need the exotic weapon proficiency use her bastard sword in 2 hands, or can we read bastard sword as "2H Martial, 2d8/19-20, -2 to hit" from now on?
Amiri has the EWP feat. The question becomes, "Does she need it?"
(To which the answer is "yes." Wielding as a martial becomes impossible since it's Large-sized, so she would have to wield it as an exotic one-handed, which she must use two hands to do because of it's size, which then means she can't use it because she must use two hands, which makes it two-handed... Why does it taste like copper?)
BBT an FAQ only likes to be asked one question per thread. <---Serious comment. I don't know why they like it that way, but that is how it is. Yeah, that means each of these questions might need its own thread.
#Dont kill the messenger.. :)
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It is sort of like giving pie, to someone who asks for dessert.
A:"Here, you can have this pie. Pie is what is for dessert."
B:"What kind of pie is it?"
A:"Do not question the pie! You asked what is for dessert, and it is pie!"
B:"Well, I just wanted to know what kind of..."
A:"That's it! No pie for you! Should have been happy with the answer to your first question, as the answer is clear."
B:"So, dessert is, nothing now?"
A:"NO, it's pie!"
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So, if a feat, or ability, says something like "choose an One-handed weapon" or "choose a Two-handed weapon", the Bastard Sword is a valid option for both?
Can a Bastard Sword still count as an One-handed weapon, if wielded in two hands, like normal One-handed weapons, or does it discontinue to count as an One-handed weapon, once you wield it in two hands?
Does it still count as an Exotic Weapon, if wielded in two hands?
It is always an exotic weapon. If you are asking is it one for the purpose of nonproficiency then it counts as a martial weapon if you weild it in two hands. It can not be weilded in one hand without EWP.
As for an ability saying "choose _______" then I would count it for both. I dont know if that is RAI, but for now it seems to work per RAW.
A one handed weapon is treated as a two handed weapon for the purpose of str bonuses and power attack when weilded in two hands. The hit points also dont magically change because you hold it in two hands. <----I am not being sarcastic. I just wanted to try to cover all the bases.
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I've read on other forums that designating a bastard sword as a martial two-handed weapon with the capacity to be weilded in one hand if EWP is taken makes a lot of sense. It will raise Power Attack damage (at least if the lance FAQ is precedent) but simplifies everything, even Amiri's build works just fine. I wonder why the PDT are reluctant to errata it - there would be no increase in word count and it just moves a table entry.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency p enalty also applies. The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
Honestly, they should create a new Weapon Quality:
A weapon with the 1½ Hander quality is always a one-handed exotic weapon. However, it is just enough larger than a normal one-handed weapon that it cannot be wielded with one hand without being proficient.
A weapon with this quality also has 7 hit points instead of 5.
Each weapon with the 1½ Hander quality has two specific martial weapons listed in it's description. If the character is proficient with either of these weapons, then they can wield the 1½ Hander weapon with two hands with no penalty (although it is still a one-handed weapon). Note: Another weapon proficiency may be substituted for the required weapons at GM discretion.
If the wielder is not proficient with either of these martial weapons, then the weapon with the 1½ Hander quality must be wielded with two hands AND suffers the -4 non-proficiency penalty.
My suggestion is longsword/greatsword for the bastard sword and battleaxe/greataxe for the dwarven waraxe.
If we go back to SKR's comments from the first FAQ and take the new FAQ into account, I believe Bastard Swords should be treated like this:
If you do not have the EWP feat: It's a greatsword for anything having to do with wielding, abilities applicable to two-handed weapons/attacks/whatever.
If you have the EWP feat: It's a longsword if you use one hand and it's a greatsword if you use two hands. You can choose how to wield it.
It's still listed as a one-handed exotic weapon, but in function it now really is a hybrid. But outside of how one wields it, I believe the FAQ directs that we treat them like one-handed exotic weapons.
As for why you can't nonproficiently wield a Bastard Sword in one hand, because it's a specific case with different language (which is operative, despite protestations otherwise - and we know it's operative because the people who wrote it said, "It's operative"). If you don't have the EWP feat, the Bastard Sword is, for all purposes associated to wielding, the same as a Greatsword. And you can't one-hand a Greatsword without a separate specific ability that says otherwise. Same goes for Bastard Swords.
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If it were just an One-handed Exotic Weapon, that PCs with proficiency in all Martial could wield without penalty, none of this would be an issue.
Of course, it is so special, that it just keeps being another, and another, exception to the rules.
So, if I ever want to use a Bastard Sword, or it's like, I need to know all those exceptions.
That's why this thread, and these questions, exist.
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"I have some questions about Bastard Swords."
Ok, is it about wielding a Bastard Sword or some other aspect?
"Wielding."
Ok, shoot.
"Can I wield it in one hand?"
Do you have the EWP feat/Jotungrip class feature/Something similar?
"No."
Then no.
"What if I take the -4 nonproficiency penalty?"
Still no.
"Then, I meant yes."
Then yes.
"How do I treat the Bastard Sword when I'm wielding it for my abilities and stuff?"
How many hands are you wielding it with?
"Just one."
Treat it like a one-handed weapon.
"Sometimes two, though."
Then when you wield it in two hands, treat it like a two-handed weapon.
"What about [any other question] that doesn't have anything to do with wielding the Bastard Sword?"
For any other purpose not associated with how one wields a Bastard Sword, it's a one-handed exotic weapon, according to the CRB and the most recent FAQ.
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If it were just an One-handed Exotic Weapon, that PCs with proficiency in all Martial could wield without penalty, none of this would be an issue.
Of course, it is so special, that it just keeps being another, and another, exception to the rules.
So, if I ever want to use a Bastard Sword, or it's like, I need to know all those exceptions.
That's why this thread, and these questions, exist.
For class abilities, feats, and other rule elements that vary based on or specifically depend on wielding a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, the bastard sword counts as however many hands you are using to wield it.
There's the answer to your Black Blade questions. A Bastard Sword can be a Black Blade if you're wielding it in one hand.
There aren't really a ton of exceptions. How many hands are you using to wield it? Then treat it like that kind of a weapon.
Personally, I liked the idea that the only reason for which a Bastard Sword wasn't treated like a one-handed exotic weapon is figuring out who can wield it without the EWP feat. Straight forward, perfectly workable. This new clarification isn't too far off from that, except the Bastard Swords utility has been expanded to allow for two-handed-weapon-oriented abilities. But it's not that big of a deal, from my perspective.
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If it were just an One-handed Exotic Weapon, that PCs with proficiency in all Martial could wield without penalty, none of this would be an issue.
Of course, it is so special, that it just keeps being another, and another, exception to the rules.
So, if I ever want to use a Bastard Sword, or it's like, I need to know all those exceptions.
That's why this thread, and these questions, exist.
Sure, but it's really not as difficult as some people are wanting to make it out to be.
Well, nice of to ignore the problems, and the questions, and put me in my place.
Good to see you are willing to help.
Ease up, man. I'm not trying to put anybody "in their place". I'm responding and trying to be helpful.
Does Amiri need the exotic weapon proficiency use her bastard sword in 2 hands, or can we read bastard sword as "2H Martial, 2d8/19-20, -2 to hit" from now on?Without it, she'd be attacking at a minus 6, instead of a minus 2.
No, without it she couldn't wield an oversized Bastard Sword at all. That's a result from the previous FAQ, which says you can't wield in one hand at all unless you have the EWP feat.
RE: Black Blade
The way I think it works here is if you're incapable of wielding a Bastard Sword in one hand, you've got to treat it like a two-handed weapon. Since the FAQ says for class abilities that depend upon the status of the weapon and you have to wield in two hands, it couldn't be a Black Blade for you.
If you have the option of wielding it in one hand, it can be a Black Blade and should remain that way even if you two-hand it because you'd be treating it like a one-handed weapon being wielded in two hands.
What you couldn't do is multiclass as a Two-Handed Fighter and Black Blade and have your Bastard Sword Black Blade count as both a two-handed weapon (for the THF abilities) and one-handed for Black Blade purposes. Since a Black Blade is required to be a one-handed slashing weapon in this instance, you'd be restricting yourself to considering it a one-handed weapon, whether wielded in one or two hands.
Can I choose a Bastard Sword as a Blackblade, if I don't have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat yet?
Does a medium creature wielding a small Bastard Sword treat it as a Light, or One-handed weapon?
Outside of how you are currently wielding the weapon, how will one know whether to treat the Bastard Sword as a One, or Two handed weapon?
Okay, sorry blackbloodtroll, I'll try to help:
Regarding the FAQ: That is supposed to be a clarification to existing rules, not new rules. Therefore, they are a supplement to the existing rules in the books. As such, the bastard sword is a one-handed weapon. For non-proficiency purposes, it is treated differently, but the entry in both the CRB and UE state: one-handed weapon.
So, technically, yes, a bastard sword (and even a dwarven waraxe) fulfill the requirement of "one-handed slashing weapon".
Why you'd want to do it, I don't know, I'd just take EWP that 3rd level, when you gain the black blade.
However, the bastard sword is always a one-handed weapon. However, if you're wielding it with two hands, you qualify for Feats and effects relating to two-handed weapons. It's still a one-handed weapon, though.
As for a medium creature and a small bastard sword, it'd be treated as a light weapon (and wouldn't get any bonuses to damage for wielding it in two hands). If your not proficient... that's a bit weirder, and I don't have an answer.
Cheers!
If you're not proficient, the only change in wielding an undersized Bastard Sword would be that you can't consider it Light for situations (like having been swallowed) when having a Light weapon would be advantageous.
Ah, here's the actual text for the bastard sword (from Ultimate Equipment):
A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. You can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
The dwarven waraxe and katana have similar wording.
Note that is says "use a bastard sword two-handed..."
It doesn't say that it is a "two-handed weapon", merely that you can USE it two-handed.
From the CRB (under Equipment: Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons):
One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.
(emphasis mine)
Therefore, it is ALWAYS a One-Handed Weapon. It must be wielded with two hands if you're not proficient, but it doesn't become a Two-Handed Weapon.
Cheers!
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I almost get the vibe that these questions are spite based, rather than inquisitive. Many FAQs spawn follow up questions by people trying to show why the FAQ is dumb. I'm not saying that's definitively the case here as I think I know BBT a bit better than that, but the third post here definitely gives off that same vibe as the people freaking out over the free action FAQ. "CAN I SPEAK MORE THAN THREE TIMES IN A ROUND?! OH GOD NOOOO... Oh, wait, that question isn't enough. Let me start five more threads on this, just to clutter up the queue and show them that they're wrong!!1"
Personally, I'd much rather the time spent on FAQs be spent on different topics than just clarifying previous FAQs. Things like claws and hands, or natural attacks and unarmed strikes, or things that people actually run into issues with rather than "Can this one archetype do X with a bastard sword?"
The blackblade question is not frequently asked. While in the heat of the moment (aka: after a FAQ you dislike is released) it may seem appropriate, would you a month from now rate is as an important question that needs to be answered?
It's one weapon. A rarely used weapon. A weapon whose intent is actually pretty easy to figure out, even if the details can get muddy.
Sigh. The responses to FAQs have been pretty depressing lately.
Official Rules Response
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This is not a FAQ issue. Do not abuse the FAQ system.
The FAQ cannot address every extreme corner case you can think of. If the rules or the FAQ don't cover a corner case issue, make a ruling. If you're playing PFS and you don't have the leeway to make a ruling, then you shouldn't be trying to use that corner case to force a ruling on an extreme corner case. The game provides you plenty of options that are clearly allowed in the rules and FAQ, you don't need to push for corner cases that let you eke out a strange exception in the search of more power. The game is already skewed in the favor of the PCs; the PCs are expected to win, you don't need to hunt ways to make it even more in your favor.
Thread closed.