paizo.com Recent Posts in Low Strength Coup De Gracepaizo.com Recent Posts in Low Strength Coup De Grace2013-10-22T21:59:21Z2013-10-22T21:59:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceRynjinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#342013-10-23T04:27:22Z2013-10-23T04:27:22Z<p>1d6-2•4 would have a minimum of 1.</p>
<p>But I'm 90% sure crits don't work by multiplying the one roll. They work by rolling multiple times.</p>
<p>So if you have a x4 crit it would be 4d6-8 total, but each 1d6-2 in there has a minimum of 1 damage. So minimum of 4.</p>1d6-2*4 would have a minimum of 1.
But I'm 90% sure crits don't work by multiplying the one roll. They work by rolling multiple times.
So if you have a x4 crit it would be 4d6-8 total, but each 1d6-2 in there has a minimum of 1 damage. So minimum of 4.Rynjin2013-10-23T04:27:22ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceZahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#332013-10-23T13:09:26Z2013-10-23T01:57:00Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">james maissen wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Reynard_the_fox wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Oh, and to address previous comments:</p>
<p>(1d6 - 2)•4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5•4 = 6.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Unfortunately that's not how it works.
<p>1d6 does indeed average to 3.5.</p>
<p>1d6-2 does not average to 1.5</p>
<p>In order, the possible results of 1d6-2 are: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Adding those together provides 12. Dividing by 6 gives 2.</p>
<p>Thus 1d6-2 averages to 2.</p>
<p>(1d6-2)x4 therefore averages to 8. </blockquote><p>Nope.
<p>You don't do the minimum 1 for each die, but rather you do it all out and THEN do the minimum 1.</p>
<p>That is you do 4d6-8. Now some of these will go below 1, and you will need to look at a special rule for that which I believe Pathfinder changed from 3e.</p>
<p>-James </blockquote><p>We may have to just disagree on this. The CRB states damage is minimum 1, yes, for multiples, it says to figure it multiple times and add it together. I interpret that to mean that each multiple has a minimum of 1, not the total.
<p>I don't accept that (1d6-2)x4 does between 1 and 20 damage. If the base attack has a minimum of 1, then the Crit has a minimum of 4.</p>james maissen wrote:Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote: Reynard_the_fox wrote:Oh, and to address previous comments:
(1d6 - 2)*4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5*4 = 6.
Unfortunately that's not how it works. 1d6 does indeed average to 3.5.
1d6-2 does not average to 1.5
In order, the possible results of 1d6-2 are: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Adding those together provides 12. Dividing by 6 gives 2.
Thus 1d6-2 averages to 2.
(1d6-2)x4 therefore averages to 8....Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2013-10-23T01:57:00ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Graceblackbloodtrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#322013-10-23T01:53:41Z2013-10-23T01:53:41Z<p>Weapon Finesse.</p>
<p>Agile Weapon.</p>
<p>Done.</p>Weapon Finesse.
Agile Weapon.
Done.blackbloodtroll2013-10-23T01:53:41ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Gracejames maissenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#312013-10-23T01:46:46Z2013-10-23T01:46:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Reynard_the_fox wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Oh, and to address previous comments:</p>
<p>(1d6 - 2)•4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5•4 = 6.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Unfortunately that's not how it works.
<p>1d6 does indeed average to 3.5.</p>
<p>1d6-2 does not average to 1.5</p>
<p>In order, the possible results of 1d6-2 are: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Adding those together provides 12. Dividing by 6 gives 2.</p>
<p>Thus 1d6-2 averages to 2.</p>
<p>(1d6-2)x4 therefore averages to 8. </blockquote><p>Nope.
<p>You don't do the minimum 1 for each die, but rather you do it all out and THEN do the minimum 1.</p>
<p>That is you do 4d6-8. Now some of these will go below 1, and you will need to look at a special rule for that which I believe Pathfinder changed from 3e.</p>
<p>-James</p>Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:Reynard_the_fox wrote:Oh, and to address previous comments:
(1d6 - 2)*4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5*4 = 6.
Unfortunately that's not how it works. 1d6 does indeed average to 3.5.
1d6-2 does not average to 1.5
In order, the possible results of 1d6-2 are: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Adding those together provides 12. Dividing by 6 gives 2.
Thus 1d6-2 averages to 2.
(1d6-2)x4 therefore averages to 8. Nope. You don't do...james maissen2013-10-23T01:46:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Gracerandomrollhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#302013-10-23T01:41:46Z2013-10-23T01:41:46Z<p>Handle Animal, have a dog trained to Coup De Grace?</p>Handle Animal, have a dog trained to Coup De Grace?randomroll2013-10-23T01:41:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceZahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#292013-10-23T01:14:42Z2013-10-23T01:14:42Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Reynard_the_fox wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Oh, and to address previous comments:</p>
<p>(1d6 - 2)•4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5•4 = 6.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Unfortunately that's not how it works.
<p>1d6 does indeed average to 3.5.</p>
<p>1d6-2 does not average to 1.5</p>
<p>In order, the possible results of 1d6-2 are: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Adding those together provides 12. Dividing by 6 gives 2.</p>
<p>Thus 1d6-2 averages to 2.</p>
<p>(1d6-2)x4 therefore averages to 8.</p>Reynard_the_fox wrote:Oh, and to address previous comments:
(1d6 - 2)*4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5*4 = 6.
Unfortunately that's not how it works. 1d6 does indeed average to 3.5.
1d6-2 does not average to 1.5
In order, the possible results of 1d6-2 are: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Adding those together provides 12. Dividing by 6 gives 2.
Thus 1d6-2 averages to 2.
(1d6-2)x4 therefore averages to 8.Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2013-10-23T01:14:42ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceReynard_the_foxhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#282013-10-22T21:52:09Z2013-10-22T21:52:09Z<p>I think touch attack coups de grace are probably GM fiat, but it makes sense to me - if you can take your Shocking Grasp and stick it up your opponent's nostrils, that's probably an auto crit. Same for a Scorching Ray at point-blank. (Maybe even an acid splash in the ear?) I think that's probably my best bet for this character; thanks guys!</p>
<p>Oh, and to address previous comments:</p>
<p>(1d6 - 2)•4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5•4 = 6.</p>
<p>The issue with crossbows is that it requires at least a move action to load one, and using a coup de grace is a full-round action. And if you don't walk around with loaded crossbows in your bag, that's a little more time than you have when your opponent may break paralysis in only a few rounds.</p>
<p>An agile weapon certainly solves the problem, but if anything as a sorcerer I'd want a spell-storing weapon first.</p>I think touch attack coups de grace are probably GM fiat, but it makes sense to me - if you can take your Shocking Grasp and stick it up your opponent's nostrils, that's probably an auto crit. Same for a Scorching Ray at point-blank. (Maybe even an acid splash in the ear?) I think that's probably my best bet for this character; thanks guys!
Oh, and to address previous comments:
(1d6 - 2)*4 is going to be 6 on average. 1d6 deals 3.5 on average; 3.5 - 2 = 1.5; 1.5*4 = 6.
The issue with...Reynard_the_fox2013-10-22T21:52:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceTempestormhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#272013-10-22T21:43:31Z2013-10-22T21:43:31Z<p>Never apply logic Rynjin, you will be beaten down by absurdity•.</p>
<p>•Absuridty is both a melee and ranged weapon</p>
<p>Me and my group, we are absurd. We coup de grace with acid splash! True story by the way... have an Arcane Trickster in my Rise of the Runelords game and he went around hitting trolls with coup de grace acid splash sneak attacks. Loved it! ;)</p>Never apply logic Rynjin, you will be beaten down by absurdity*.
*Absuridty is both a melee and ranged weapon
Me and my group, we are absurd. We coup de grace with acid splash! True story by the way... have an Arcane Trickster in my Rise of the Runelords game and he went around hitting trolls with coup de grace acid splash sneak attacks. Loved it! ;)Tempestorm2013-10-22T21:43:31ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceBigdaddyjughttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#262013-10-22T21:42:23Z2013-10-22T21:42:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Reynard_the_fox wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Rynjin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Here's another question for you: How successful do you think you're going to be as a 1/2 BaB character with 6 Str doing a melee attack, even a Touch Attack?</p>
<p>At 4th level (when you get it), you'll have a whopping +0 to-hit. How are you planning to get these guys with it in the first place? And without getting your face ripped off in the attempt?</p>
<p>What happens if you succeed is the LEAST of your problems...</p>
<p>This is assuming you don't have high Dex and Weapon Finesse either since you called out using crossbows as not being an option because you're already MAD. </blockquote><p>He'll be an Aberrant sorcerer with a very high dex, Acrobatics (including the trait to make it a class skill), and weapon finesse. (Mirror Image is a fantastic spell, too.) Although it is worth noting that any invisibility effect lets you make a touch attack against a flat-footed touch AC, which usually isn't much higher than 10.
<p>I did forget about the katana +4 to fort save DCs, that does indeed help. Are there any spells or magic items that help in this situation? </blockquote><p>The wakizashi also carries the <b>deadly</b> property, if you want something lighter.Reynard_the_fox wrote:Rynjin wrote:Here's another question for you: How successful do you think you're going to be as a 1/2 BaB character with 6 Str doing a melee attack, even a Touch Attack?
At 4th level (when you get it), you'll have a whopping +0 to-hit. How are you planning to get these guys with it in the first place? And without getting your face ripped off in the attempt?
What happens if you succeed is the LEAST of your problems...
This is assuming you don't have high Dex and Weapon...Bigdaddyjug2013-10-22T21:42:23ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceRynjinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#252013-10-22T21:37:26Z2013-10-22T21:37:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">spectrevk wrote:</div><blockquote>Touch attacks are not weapons; you simply count as being "armed" if you have a touch spell ready. It's not the same thing. </blockquote><p>We'll use the easy example.
<p>Crane Wing deflects melee weapon attacks. Crane Wing can deflect touch attacks (as per a FAQ on whether touch attacks are triggered upon deflections).</p>
<p>It logically follows that touch attacks are melee weapons.</p>spectrevk wrote:Touch attacks are not weapons; you simply count as being "armed" if you have a touch spell ready. It's not the same thing.
We'll use the easy example. Crane Wing deflects melee weapon attacks. Crane Wing can deflect touch attacks (as per a FAQ on whether touch attacks are triggered upon deflections).
It logically follows that touch attacks are melee weapons.Rynjin2013-10-22T21:37:26ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Gracespectrevkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#242013-10-22T21:31:53Z2013-10-22T21:31:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rynjin wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zhangar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace? </p>
<p>I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit. </blockquote>Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow. </blockquote><p>Touch attacks ARE weapons.
<p>Scorching Ray, no, because as a ranged touch attack it doesn't fall into "melee weapon, bow, or crossbow", but "armed unarmed attacks" (including touch attacks) are melee weapons. </blockquote><p>Touch attacks are not weapons; you simply count as being "armed" if you have a touch spell ready. It's not the same thing.Rynjin wrote:Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote: Zhangar wrote:Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace?
I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit.
Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow. Touch attacks ARE weapons. Scorching Ray, no, because as a ranged touch attack it doesn't fall into "melee weapon, bow, or...spectrevk2013-10-22T21:31:53ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceCult of Vorg (alias of Christopher Vrysen)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#232013-10-22T21:30:03Z2013-10-22T21:30:03Z<p>Shell out the money for an agile light pick (and go mithril to help with weight)?
<br />
(Hand it to your monkey or mephit familiar so they can finish them on the same round?)</p>Shell out the money for an agile light pick (and go mithril to help with weight)?
(Hand it to your monkey or mephit familiar so they can finish them on the same round?)Cult of Vorg (alias of Christopher Vrysen)2013-10-22T21:30:03ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Gracespectrevkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#222013-10-23T13:06:56Z2013-10-22T21:29:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lemeres wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Rynjin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Here's another question for you: How successful do you think you're going to be as a 1/2 BaB character with 6 Str doing a melee attack, even a Touch Attack?</p>
<p>At 4th level (when you get it), you'll have a whopping +0 to-hit. How are you planning to get these guys with it in the first place? And without getting your face ripped off in the attempt?</p>
<p>What happens if you succeed is the LEAST of your problems...</p>
<p>This is assuming you don't have high Dex and Weapon Finesse either since you called out using crossbows as not being an option because you're already MAD. </blockquote>That seems to be a problem with inflation and gishing. I mean, wasn't the point of touch attacks in the first place was to make it possible for a caster to use attack rolls? What has happened? </blockquote><p>Nothing happened; touch attacks are still viable for casters...a strength of 6 is the strength of a small child. If you dump a stat that hard, you should be reaping some consequences.lemeres wrote:Rynjin wrote:Here's another question for you: How successful do you think you're going to be as a 1/2 BaB character with 6 Str doing a melee attack, even a Touch Attack?
At 4th level (when you get it), you'll have a whopping +0 to-hit. How are you planning to get these guys with it in the first place? And without getting your face ripped off in the attempt?
What happens if you succeed is the LEAST of your problems...
This is assuming you don't have high Dex and Weapon Finesse...spectrevk2013-10-22T21:29:31ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceRynjinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#212013-10-22T21:31:46Z2013-10-22T21:26:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zhangar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace? </p>
<p>I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit. </blockquote>Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow. </blockquote><p>Touch attacks ARE weapons.
<p>Scorching Ray, no, because as a ranged touch attack it doesn't fall into "melee weapon, bow, or crossbow", but "armed unarmed attacks" (including touch attacks) are melee weapons.</p>Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:Zhangar wrote:Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace?
I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit.
Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow. Touch attacks ARE weapons. Scorching Ray, no, because as a ranged touch attack it doesn't fall into "melee weapon, bow, or crossbow", but...Rynjin2013-10-22T21:26:13ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceTempestormhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#202013-10-22T19:28:10Z2013-10-22T19:28:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zhangar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace? </p>
<p>I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit. </blockquote>Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow. </blockquote><p>I have always allowed any spell with an attack roll to be utlized in a coup de grace. There is no reason not to.
<p>I am sure someone will yell at me that this isn't RAW, sue me.</p>Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:Zhangar wrote:Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace?
I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit.
Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow. I have always allowed any spell with an attack roll to be utlized in a coup de grace. There is no reason not to. I am sure someone will yell...Tempestorm2013-10-22T19:28:10ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceTaku Ooka Ninhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#192013-10-22T19:08:21Z2013-10-22T19:08:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HaraldKlak wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Erm, coup de grace is an automatic crit, not a crit with maxed damage[.] </blockquote><p>I hath been coup de graceing wrong for a while then, I shal change anon!HaraldKlak wrote:Erm, coup de grace is an automatic crit, not a crit with maxed damage[.]
I hath been coup de graceing wrong for a while then, I shal change anon!Taku Ooka Nin2013-10-22T19:08:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Gracejames maissenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#182013-10-22T16:04:41Z2013-10-22T16:04:41Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Reynard_the_fox wrote:</div><blockquote> what are good ways for the little people to finish helpless enemies off? </blockquote><p>Contract out.
<p>-James</p>Reynard_the_fox wrote:what are good ways for the little people to finish helpless enemies off?
Contract out. -Jamesjames maissen2013-10-22T16:04:41ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceZahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#172013-10-22T15:48:47Z2013-10-22T15:48:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zhangar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace? </p>
<p>I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit. </blockquote><p>Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow.Zhangar wrote:Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace?
I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit.
Coup de grace specifically requires a melee weapon, bow, or crossbow.Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2013-10-22T15:48:47ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceZhangarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#162013-10-22T15:04:50Z2013-10-22T15:04:50Z<p>Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace? </p>
<p>I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit.</p>Does anything prevent using Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray for a coup de grace?
I'd certainly allow it as a DM, but I don't know if there's some RAW argument that forbids performing coup de graces with spells that can critically hit.Zhangar2013-10-22T15:04:50ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceZahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#152013-10-22T14:35:01Z2013-10-22T14:35:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HaraldKlak wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Taku Ooka Nin wrote:</div><blockquote> Stuff </blockquote>Erm, coup de grace is an automatic crit, not a crit with maxed damage dice. So that 3d12 is an average of 19 damage. With a -2 str modifier (as in the OP) the damage would fall to 13, resultating in a DC 23 fortitude save, which is difficult at lower levels, but not much more than that. </blockquote><p>I figure that average as 14.25. d12 - 2 has an average of 4.75.
<p>It's also important to keep in mind that a character with a 6 STR is unable to haul around a bunch of situational gear, like greataxes.</p>HaraldKlak wrote:Taku Ooka Nin wrote: Stuff
Erm, coup de grace is an automatic crit, not a crit with maxed damage dice. So that 3d12 is an average of 19 damage. With a -2 str modifier (as in the OP) the damage would fall to 13, resultating in a DC 23 fortitude save, which is difficult at lower levels, but not much more than that. I figure that average as 14.25. d12 - 2 has an average of 4.75. It's also important to keep in mind that a character with a 6 STR is unable to haul around a bunch...Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2013-10-22T14:35:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceHaraldKlakhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#142013-10-22T13:38:56Z2013-10-22T13:38:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Taku Ooka Nin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> If I go for a paralyze+Coup de grace build then I usually carry around a great-axe for the hell of it.
</p>
If the enemy survives 36 damage AND makes the 46 fort save to not die then I'm already in trouble. Then again, I can just coup de grace again until he rolls badly.</p>
<p>Monster: YOU are paralyzed!
<br />
PC: YOU being a coup de grace!
<br />
Monster: YOU fail your will save VS hold monster!
<br />
PC: YOU coup de grace Monster!
<br />
Monster: YOU take 36 damage!
<br />
Monster: YOU FAIL your fort save!
<br />
Monster: YOU DIE!h
<br />
PC: YOU level up!
<br />
PC: Shouts: "DING!" </blockquote><p>Erm, coup de grace is an automatic crit, not a crit with maxed damage dice. So that 3d12 is an average of 19 damage. With a -2 str modifier (as in the OP) the damage would fall to 13, resultating in a DC 23 fortitude save, which is difficult at lower levels, but not much more than that.Taku Ooka Nin wrote:If I go for a paralyze+Coup de grace build then I usually carry around a great-axe for the hell of it.
If the enemy survives 36 damage AND makes the 46 fort save to not die then I'm already in trouble. Then again, I can just coup de grace again until he rolls badly.Monster: YOU are paralyzed!
PC: YOU being a coup de grace!
Monster: YOU fail your will save VS hold monster!
PC: YOU coup de grace Monster!
Monster: YOU take 36 damage!
Monster: YOU FAIL your fort save!...HaraldKlak2013-10-22T13:38:56ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De Graceinsaneogeddonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#132013-10-22T12:19:48Z2013-10-22T12:19:48Z<p>Get a pistol or pepperbox maybe pistol dagger or my favorite as has 2 shots and worn anyway - a buckler gun (if you use a mitheral buckler) - just for head shots !</p>
<p>http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/firearms.html</p>Get a pistol or pepperbox maybe pistol dagger or my favorite as has 2 shots and worn anyway - a buckler gun (if you use a mitheral buckler) - just for head shots !
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/firearms.htmlinsaneogeddon2013-10-22T12:19:48ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceZahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#122013-10-21T14:09:06Z2013-10-21T14:09:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Reynard_the_fox wrote:</div><blockquote>Coup De Grace using even a x4 small weapon (and simple weapons only go up to +3) with 6 strength only does at best (1d6 - 2)•4 damage, or 6 on average.</blockquote><p>This is actually an 8 average.
<p>An 18 Fort save isn't trivial for some.</p>
<p>How about using a crossbow? 1d10 x2, gives an 11 average, so a 21 Fort save.</p>Reynard_the_fox wrote:Coup De Grace using even a x4 small weapon (and simple weapons only go up to +3) with 6 strength only does at best (1d6 - 2)*4 damage, or 6 on average.
This is actually an 8 average. An 18 Fort save isn't trivial for some.
How about using a crossbow? 1d10 x2, gives an 11 average, so a 21 Fort save.Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2013-10-21T14:09:06ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceTaku Ooka Ninhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#112013-10-21T09:11:36Z2013-10-21T09:11:36Z<p>If I go for a paralyze+Coup de grace build then I usually carry around a great-axe for the hell of it.
<br />
If the enemy survives 36 damage AND makes the 46 fort save to not die then I'm already in trouble. Then again, I can just coup de grace again until he rolls badly.</p>
<p>Monster: YOU are paralyzed!
<br />
PC: YOU being a coup de grace!
<br />
Monster: YOU fail your will save VS hold monster!
<br />
PC: YOU coup de grace Monster!
<br />
Monster: YOU take 36 damage!
<br />
Monster: YOU FAIL your fort save!
<br />
Monster: YOU DIE!
<br />
PC: YOU level up!
<br />
PC: Shouts: "DING!"</p>If I go for a paralyze+Coup de grace build then I usually carry around a great-axe for the hell of it.
If the enemy survives 36 damage AND makes the 46 fort save to not die then I'm already in trouble. Then again, I can just coup de grace again until he rolls badly.
Monster: YOU are paralyzed!
PC: YOU being a coup de grace!
Monster: YOU fail your will save VS hold monster!
PC: YOU coup de grace Monster!
Monster: YOU take 36 damage!
Monster: YOU FAIL your fort save!
Monster: YOU DIE!
PC: YOU...Taku Ooka Nin2013-10-21T09:11:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: Low Strength Coup De GraceAikidokahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qa1c?Low-Strength-Coup-De-Grace#102013-10-21T08:15:10Z2013-10-21T08:15:10Z<p>Just roll a 20 for a touch attack, that's all you need to do. It's simple :P</p>Just roll a 20 for a touch attack, that's all you need to do. It's simple :PAikidoka2013-10-21T08:15:10Z