Can a non-Sorcerer with the Eldritch heritage feats use a Robe of Arcane Heritage?


Rules Questions

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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yep, I understand. What I am saying is that the Robes will increase a non-sorcerer power to 4. It also just concentrates on the one bloodline (as it attunes itself to when the Sorcerer/Character wears it)

Perhaps I am reading to much into it, but I don't imagine that the robes were ever meant to be used by a non-sorcerer. It seems like finagling to me. I am not even sure if the secondary power from a second bloodline would even be effected.


thaX wrote:

Yep, I understand. What I am saying is that the Robes will increase a non-sorcerer power to 4. It also just concentrates on the one bloodline (as it attunes itself to when the Sorcerer/Character wears it)

Perhaps I am reading to much into it, but I don't imagine that the robes were ever meant to be used by a non-sorcerer. It seems like finagling to me. I am not even sure if the secondary power from a second bloodline would even be effected.

It does because the reweaving is really just a cosmetic effect. Theres no text stating, "The wearer benefits if his bloodline matches the robe blah blah blah."

If the Robes were only meant to be worn by a Sorcerer, it'd cost less as per the rules on class restricted items.


I have a thought, mechanically does the game consider the character to have a bloodline? I know thematically we treat it that way.

Basically if I have eldritch heritage fey bloodline and I entre a room that wracks any fey gnomes or sorcerers with the fey bloodline with wracking agony... would my non sorveter char be hurt? (I think there's a pfs scenario that hits anyone with wikd empathy gnome or fey bloodline with a disease)

So strictly raw would someone with the eldritch heritage feats be affected?

If yes then I think the robes work.


Aureate wrote:


Your collector example is flawed. To match the wording on the robes it would have had to state, "Matthew likes to collect coins. The collector takes pride in his collection." Which collector? Matthew.

I disagree. The my point was that a second sentence need not always be read strictly in the confines of the context of a preceding sentence. I don't feel the wording has to be the exact same to make that point.

And as I point out in my second example (where the wording also does not exactly match) reading one sentence only in the context of another can lead to false conclusions.

Even your re-write of my sentence, "The collector" doesn't specify which collector and can be read in the general rather than referring to any specific collector.

"Many people like to form collections. A collection is usually a group of similar objects. People collect stamps, sports cards, and even cars. Matthew likes to collect coins. The collector takes pride in his collection."

"The collector" in this case doesn't refer to Matthew specifically.

I would also agree with Scavion that the sorcerer-specific text about the pattern changing seems more description or flavor text than meant to be mechanical. If they wanted it to only affect sorcerers, the sentence dealing with the actual mechanical bonus granted could have easily been written to that effect.


Mojorat wrote:

I have a thought, mechanically does the game consider the character to have a bloodline? I know thematically we treat it that way.

Basically if I have eldritch heritage fey bloodline and I entre a room that wracks any fey gnomes or sorcerers with the fey bloodline with wracking agony... would my non sorveter char be hurt? (I think there's a pfs scenario that hits anyone with wikd empathy gnome or fey bloodline with a disease)

So strictly raw would someone with the eldritch heritage feats be affected?

If yes then I think the robes work.

Well the first part of Eldritch Heritage says "Choose a bloodline." So I would believe yes.


It works, you have sorcerer level and you treat it as higher cos of robes.
Downers who do not understand that robe's wording was made without thinking about heritage will not let you reshape it to match bloodline, but it does not change how it affects sorcerer level.


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If a crossblooded sorcerer with eldritch hertiage put in the robe, would it just explode?


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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
If a crossblooded sorcerer with eldritch hertiage put in the robe, would it just explode?

No, it'd just be a really bad ass reweave. And a pretty epic family tree.


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"You're an Oread with the Infernal and Celestial bloodlines?"

"And Shaitan Eldritch Heritage. Yeah. Family reunions are...interesting."

"Delightful!"

(Overheard at the Chelish embassy in Korvosa. We can neither confirm nor deny that this conversation involved the Paracountess.)


AdAstraGames wrote:

"You're an Oread with the Infernal and Celestial bloodlines?"

"And Shaitan Eldritch Heritage. Yeah. Family reunions are...interesting."

"Delightful!"

(Overheard at the Chelish embassy in Korvosa. We can neither confirm nor deny that this conversation involved the Paracountess.)

Azata-Blooded Aasimar Scion of Humanity with Crossblooded Celestial/Abyssal, Infernal Eldritch Heritage, Racial Heritage(Orc), and Adopted by Elves.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Yeah...options are great aren't they?


Kazaan wrote:


Azata-Blooded Aasimar Scion of Humanity with Crossblooded Draconic/Abyssal, Infernal Eldritch Heritage, Racial Heritage(Orc), and Adopted by Elves.

Aasimar and celestial bloodline are kinda the same thing (though not necessarily).


Azata-blooded represents the CG celestials while Celestial bloodline is more representative of LG celestials, coupled with Abyssal (CE) and Infernal (LE), you hit all four corners of the alignment grid. Draconic represents the most powerful natural creatures of the material plane, Scion of Humanity represents Humans (versatility) while Orcs contrast Elves in savagery vs elegance.


Kazaan wrote:
Azata-blooded represents the CG celestials while Celestial bloodline is more representative of LG celestials,

But there is only Celestial bloodline; not Angel, Archon, Azata, and Agathion. Unlike the Abyssal, Infernal, Daemon, and Shadow bloodlies.

That's why Celestial bloodline Aasimar kinda doubles up on the same thing (but not always) and just to make the widest heritage changing you could change it to Draconic. As you say, the azata-blooded could use Celestial bloodline to represent Angel or Archon heritage but the bloodline isn't really specific.

Make it Gold Draconic for LG.


I think these are a lot of feats and items spent on having bloodline flavor and abilities.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
DarkPhoenixx wrote:

It works, you have sorcerer level and you treat it as higher cos of robes.

Downers who do not understand that robe's wording was made without thinking about heritage will not let you reshape it to match bloodline, but it does not change how it affects sorcerer level.

Thank you.

It is my belief, as I stated above, that the robes rises the power to sorcerer level 4. If the trait already rises the power above that and the character has no Sorcerer levels otherwise, then the trait supersedes the Robes.

I wonder if someone would pay for the robes for an early level boost and sell it once it is ineffective at higher level. That is what I am seeing here.


thaX wrote:
DarkPhoenixx wrote:

It works, you have sorcerer level and you treat it as higher cos of robes.

Downers who do not understand that robe's wording was made without thinking about heritage will not let you reshape it to match bloodline, but it does not change how it affects sorcerer level.

Thank you.

It is my belief, as I stated above, that the robes rises the power to sorcerer level 4. If the trait already rises the power above that and the character has no Sorcerer levels otherwise, then the trait supersedes the Robes.

I wonder if someone would pay for the robes for an early level boost and sell it once it is ineffective at higher level. That is what I am seeing here.

Going by your arguments, said character would need to purchase it between 1-5th level. Which isn't possible. Or lucrative.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hence, my saying that it wouldn't be worth the trouble to get for what it does for a non-sorcerer.


I don't see the logic in your argument. While I disagree with the "doesn't work on non-sorcerers" crowd, I can at least follow their logic.

Pro: Feat gives you an effective sorcerer level for bloodline powers. Item increases your sorcerer levels for bloodline powers. Thus item increases the effective sorcerer level gained from feat.

Anti: While feat gives you effective sorcerer level for bloodline powers, you still don't have sorcerer levels or a bloodline, so no increase in level. Robes only work if have actual sorcerer levels.

thaX: The feat gives you an effective sorcerer level for bloodline powers. But the item doesn't increase that, rather it increases your non-existent level of sorcerer class (not 0, does not exist -).....?

I can understand (though disagree) with the "you don't have actual sorcerer levels, so it doesn't interact." I personally read it as "you have a sorcerer level from the feat, so it does interact." I just don't see the reasoning behind "It increases a non-existent stat and may or may not interact."


Samasboy1 wrote:

I don't see the logic in your argument. While I disagree with the "doesn't work on non-sorcerers" crowd, I can at least follow their logic.

Pro: Feat gives you an effective sorcerer level for bloodline powers. Item increases your sorcerer levels for bloodline powers. Thus item increases the effective sorcerer level gained from feat.

Anti: While feat gives you effective sorcerer level for bloodline powers, you still don't have sorcerer levels or a bloodline, so no increase in level. Robes only work if have actual sorcerer levels.

thaX: The feat gives you an effective sorcerer level for bloodline powers. But the item doesn't increase that, rather it increases your non-existent level of sorcerer class (not 0, does not exist -).....?

I can understand (though disagree) with the "you don't have actual sorcerer levels, so it doesn't interact." I personally read it as "you have a sorcerer level from the feat, so it does interact." I just don't see the reasoning behind "It increases a non-existent stat and may or may not interact."

How do you feel about the price of the item indicating that other classes could benefit from it? I.E if it really was sorcerer only, it'd cost 30% less.

Because that is the strongest argument for it.


I am all for it. It supports the side I agree with and uses solid rules to do so.

But I don't see what that has to do with my post on wanting clarification on thaX's reasoning.....


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Monk's Robe works for all Class it has a very similar effect. Actual it does more than the Robe of Arcane Heritage and cost 3k less. The monks robe treats as 5th or 5 levels higher, and uses an associated feat.

Closer look at monk's Robe Raises AC by 1, 1 extra use of feat, and increased attack damage for unarmed strike for non-monk works without feat. For monk does the same only unarmed damage can end up increasing even more. does 5 level increase. Most of these increases/powers are constant. Higher caster level to create, cost 13,000gp

Now look at Robe of Arcane Heritage treats 4 levels higher for 5 to 5 powers or less power depending on level increase in power could be more damage on one ability could be extra uses per day. Also grants early access to abilities just like monks robe even capstone. depends on blood line. feat cost none. lower caster level to create. Cost 16,000gp cost is 3,000 more than monks robe but only increase level by 4 not 5.

now look at the robe in the hands of non-sorcerer, can only be used with a feat only gives one 1 power the lowest level one and this power functions as 2 levels lower. add in the robe it is only working as 2 levels higher for 1 power. so for 3,000 gp more and a 2 feats you get almost nothing out of it

ok now spend another feat IprovedEH, can another power 3rd level or 9th level one that only functions the same as before but now the cost is being level 11 I think, 3 feats and 3,000 more gp you get 2 power functions 2 levels higher than normal

you can take that feat again and get the 3rd or 9th level power you did not get last time so now the cost is 3 feats 3,000 more gp for only a 2 level increase

and final feat GreaterEH required level 15 or 17 i don't remember. but give you the 15th level power or lower level one and no more level decrease. so for 3,000 more than the monks robes and 5 feats you get a level increased to 4 powers by 4 level increase. It seems very balanced to me you don't get early access to any of these power early you still have to spend a feat to get them and it usual 2 levels past when the Sorc can get them, requires and feat tax on it with skill focus, all of them require you to still have decent Cha so you could not use it as a dump stat. Also most Bloodline power consist of 1 passive ability always active, 1 or 2 power limited uses per day and 1 or 2 situational powers. Some of these are not even useful to other classes.

Example fighter and abyssal
requires skill focus knowledge plans, (that is never going to get used)
has to sacrifice INT, Wis, or one of a physical stats to make sure CHA is useable for feats.
what does he get
claws that do 1d6+1d6 fire damage x number of rounds per day
+4 saves vs poisons 10 resistance to electricity
increase in str up to +6 at level 17 if he does not take the next the last feat
and the ability to summon and extra monster(He will never use this one)

odd are this fighter is not going to focus so much on this. so level 2 bump he gets from the robe is negligent.

The whole reason more than likely the fighter is taking these feats and buying this robe is the +6 to str at level 17 So he has to spend 3 feats to get that at a minimum
To get claw he more than likely not going to use.
Then a feat for str, all this does robe does for that is allow the fighter at level 13 and 17 get +4 to str 2 levels sooner than normal or exact same time the Sorc would normally .

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