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The amusing thing is... the Runelords Anniversary Edition has acted both as a form of advertisement and yet also a deterrent to the AP subscriptions at the same time.
Seriously. I purchased Reign of Winter because of the Runelords Anniversary Edition. But I held off for one reason: I was hoping for more compilations. If I knew that in a year or so RoW would be available as a compilation? I'd have waited! And I was hoping that was the case!
Seriously. The Runelords compilation costs less than each issue on its own. Why would I buy separate APs if I could wait and they'd be released in one lump sum? And I'm not alone in this philosophy! Hell, look at comic books - now that print compilations happen all the time, fewer people buy them. They wait for the compilation. (And it's the business plan for a number of webcomics - Girl Genius, for instance, has the entire archive for free online... but sells print compilations and makes its money with that.)
The compilations are bad for business. Releasing one worked because it helped draw in people like me. But if it were more common? Fewer people would bother with subscriptions because they'd want the less-expensive compilation instead.
What of you had to wait 5 years for the compilation? who even knows if you'll have a gaming group in 5 years, or if you will be in a completely different phase of your life?
Anyway, I will say what I always say - compiling all of the APs is not doable. Compiling + updating all the 3.5 era APs (Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, Legacy of Fire) is not only doable but seems to me like a very logical step. My guess at this point is that Paizo is refraining from undertaking such a huge, 3-years project because doing the first compilation was very tasking for them, and they like doing thins that currently interest them, not redo things they already put behind. So I think the reason we will not see the 3.5 APs converted and compiled anytime soon is personal reasons from the Paizo stuff. They are people, after all.
Updating and compiling only the 3.5 APs seems unlikely to hurt future sales. Of course that says nothing about ROI or opportunity cost, etc.
Creative Director
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To echo Lisa's and some other folk's comments... the amount of work that it takes to compile and update a 3.5 AP to the standards we expect of ourselves means that such a project can NOT be undertaken lightly. In fact, it'd take over a year to get it done right, in a way that doesn't burn out employees and create bad blood and have greater costs to Paizo than it can ever likely regain by mere sales.
A project like this is not a question of can we afford to do it, money wise? We can. It's the other currencies that run tight—things like Magic, Labor, Morale, and Influence. We need a LOT more downtime before we can start working on this project! :-P
A project like this is not a question of can we afford to do it, money wise? We can. It's the other currencies that run tight—things like Magic, Labor, Morale, and Influence. We need a LOT more downtime before we can start working on this project! :-P
I guess the message to Paizo from all these threads is that you will never be lacking the currency of audience interest for this particular product type. So by all means, wait for the right time.
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A project like this is not a question of can we afford to do it, money wise? We can. It's the other currencies that run tight—things like Magic, Labor, Morale, and Influence. We need a LOT more downtime before we can start working on this project! :-P
Clearly we need to find a resource to give us additional Build Points so we can expand the Kingdom into the next hex.
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Chief Technical Officer
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They've explicitly asked you not to do so on the forums, but they're always happy to hear feedback. Doesn't it strike you as a little rude to just ignore them? (Whether you think their concern is...
I probably shouldn't have said "don't ask."
I probably should have said "don't expect the answer to be anything other than 'no'."
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They've explicitly asked you not to do so on the forums, but they're always happy to hear feedback. Doesn't it strike you as a little rude to just ignore them? (Whether you think their concern is...I probably shouldn't have said "don't ask."
I probably should have said "don't expect the answer to be anything other than 'no'."
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
...
Well, this most recent sale is a good chance to try and buy off all the Second Darkness stock!
Do your part! Buy Second Darkness! Run it! Post feedback in its forum!
Maybe they'll do a director's cut!
!
except the APs arent on sale anymore! I wont pay 120+ for 3.5 ed books, especially with such a reputation for sucking! There are way better things out there to spend it on!
Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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The AP's should still be on sale. There aren't bundles up currently because the bundles had some issues and we had to turn them off. The prices for the individual APs should add up to the price that the bundle was. Please note, Second Darkness has an alternate cover for the first volume that is not on sale.
and how long does this sale last?
Sadly, when the Great Golem Sale ended Paizo found themselves out of all the other APs EXCEPT for Second Darkness because no one wanted to buy it, hoping instead to pick up the Anniversary Compilation. ;) (Actually I didn't pick it up because I doubt I'd ever get a chance to run it. I did get the other two APs however. In theory they might get played. Someyear. Maybe. And man, I am still tempted...)
Edit: Damn. I was weak. Ah well, at least there's nothing left to tempt me.
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except the APs arent on sale anymore! I wont pay 120+ for 3.5 ed books, especially with such a reputation for sucking! There are way better things out there to spend it on!
Still on sale, just load up your cart with the individual sale issues.
As for the reputation for sucking... I have examined that reputation in detail, and the consensus is that it is an ambitious AP with a few glaring flaws and assumptions about player action. So is Legacy of Fire, and that's one of my favorite APs. Let me tell you why. :)
When I go to GM an AP, I like to play the editor. I also like to write my own adventures, but I haven't the wherewithal to write up an entire campaign end to end. When I get a flawed AP, that's actually better than a perfect AP, because it gives me some problems to fix, and a framework to work within creatively.
The segments of Legacy of Fire that I had to correct (buried metaplot, "trap" adventure hooks, isolation from any kind of shopping resource in the AP and level bracket you would expect it most, etc) ended up being some of the best stretches of that campaign for us. Since the remainder of the campaign is really solid as printed, that means we took a good AP with bad parts and turned it into a good AP with great parts. And the great parts were suspiciously customized to the PCs.
And that, my friend, is why flawed APs are a good deal.
We had to take down the bundles, as they were causing issues, but the individual volumes are still on sale at the same discount.So what happened to those of us whose bundles appeared to work fine? I still have the Serpent's Skull bundle in my pending.
Oh, and to keep this on subject, I could care less about compilations. Especially if it takes away from Paizo's ability to make new product. The 3.5 stuff was already made, printed, and sold. Ancient history. Besides, it's not that hard to run the 3.5 as Pathfinder.
I care about compilations since the Runelords Anniversary Edition.
I think there's a place for the "director's cut". I was on literally the last session of Runelords when it came out, and I still bought the hardcover.
It's insanely great that the crew combed through the Runelords forums and incorporated feedback. How could the end result of such a process not be something amazing?
I know it is difficult and impractical to release these things, but I refuse to accept that it will never happen again. If I have to wait 20 years for another two APs to get the treatment, I will.
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Let's then build a kickstart to buy the entire stock of the Second Darkness so there is more chance of a collection edition. Remember that a kickstart its not only about the money, but it also shows how much the fans care about something.
You know... if it came with a nifty t-shirt I would pitch in $20 for this. Maybe more depending on the rewards available ;-)
Two and Half Darknesses!
except the APs arent on sale anymore! I wont pay 120+ for 3.5 ed books, especially with such a reputation for sucking! There are way better things out there to spend it on!Still on sale, just load up your cart with the individual sale issues.
As for the reputation for sucking... I have examined that reputation in detail, and the consensus is that it is an ambitious AP with a few glaring flaws and assumptions about player action. So is Legacy of Fire, and that's one of my favorite APs. Let me tell you why. :)
When I go to GM an AP, I like to play the editor. I also like to write my own adventures, but I haven't the wherewithal to write up an entire campaign end to end. When I get a flawed AP, that's actually better than a perfect AP, because it gives me some problems to fix, and a framework to work within creatively.
The segments of Legacy of Fire that I had to correct (buried metaplot, "trap" adventure hooks, isolation from any kind of shopping resource in the AP and level bracket you would expect it most, etc) ended up being some of the best stretches of that campaign for us. Since the remainder of the campaign is really solid as printed, that means we took a good AP with bad parts and turned it into a good AP with great parts. And the great parts were suspiciously customized to the PCs.
And that, my friend, is why flawed APs are a good deal.
yeah right before i said that i had noticed that the bundle in my cart had jumped in price!
i agree on imperfect APs, i like serpent's skull more then most BECAUSE Saventh-Yhi isn't as fleshed out as much as it maybe should've been because i could really let loose and make it my own.i have a few questions for you (as someone else whose avatar is named after a Futurama character i trust your opinion;)
1) i know about the bait and switch issues of book 1 and the railroad that is book 5, that said are they as bad as the reviews say? i don't mind the bait and switch and i can work with a rail road
2) why is it such a bad thing Elves are jerk a#+&%~@s? as someone that read a lot of Dragonlance books growing up i expect that to a degree (also the elves in tolkien weren't exactly rays of happy sunshine:)
3) what level does it top out at (3.5ed) and how difficult is it to convert to PFRPG?
thanks in advance for answering:)
Let's then build a kickstart to buy the entire stock of the Second Darkness so there is more chance of a collection edition. Remember that a kickstart its not only about the money, but it also shows how much the fans care about something.You know... if it came with a nifty t-shirt I would pitch in $20 for this. Maybe more depending on the rewards available ;-)
some sort of shapable goo/play doh with a shaping kit for your own flesh warping at home?
drow themed sex toys?just a couple ideas;)
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Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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We had to take down the bundles, as they were causing issues, but the individual volumes are still on sale at the same discount.So what happened to those of us whose bundles appeared to work fine? I still have the Serpent's Skull bundle in my pending.
I'm currently working though those orders to make sure they are all good and shipping correctly.
Captain Yesterday, I know that the crew that converts stuff for Hero Labs translated these early APs to Pathfinder from 3.5. As with Runelords, it would likely work best as a Fast Track adventure. I'm not exactly sure what the final level will be, but it's always possible to adjust it to suit your needs.
I do know that I'll likely run Serpent's Skull and modify it to be Mythic; at least one of my virtual players loved the AP overview and would love to be in it. Of course, considering that I'm only just about finishing with the second book of Runelords, this won't be for quite some time! ^^;;
i don't use Hero Labs and most likely never will (i keep my RPGs off the computer as much as possible as we only have one for a family of 4 so i don't get a lot of time with it) i do it the ol' fashioned way with pen and paper
i do have some books as PDFs but don't get to use as much as i would like:) thanks for the suggestion tho:)
im also aware of EXP discrepancies between 3.5 and PFRPG i was just curious as to what level it is for 3.5
still waiting to hear if its that bad and if its worth my time and money tho:)
Well, Curse of the Crimson Throne has now joined Rise of the Runelords as an AP that has at least one issue sold out: Seven Days to the Grave is now only to be found in PDF format. So it now has one of the criteria necessary! :-)
Book 5 is that bad. I didn't notice it on my first read-through of the AP just for plot, but considering that
I didn't really have a problem with the transition between books one and two, partly because I had a couple of the NPCs the party had gotten close to kidnapped so they were eager to leave Riddleport and rescue them. Also, the whole reason we played this AP was to relive the part of Baldur's Gate 2 where the party goes undercover in a drow city so they were gung-ho to get to that.
i have a few questions for you (as someone else whose avatar is named after a Futurama character i trust your opinion;)
1) i know about the bait and switch issues of book 1 and the railroad that is book 5, that said are they as bad as the reviews say? i don't mind the bait and switch and i can work with a rail road2) why is it such a bad thing Elves are jerk a~~~*+$s? as someone that read a lot of Dragonlance books growing up i expect that to a degree (also the elves in tolkien weren't exactly rays of happy sunshine:)
3) what level does it top out at (3.5ed) and how difficult is it to convert to PFRPG?
1) I don't know yet, I just ordered them as a part of this sale. The thing is, an AP issue is more than just the adventure. I'm positive that even if an adventure is a bit off, the supporting articles, monsters, etc, will be interesting. And the art and maps will probably be great.
At this point I can GM Pathfinder in my sleep, so I'm sure to make the most out of the material no matter how bad things get.
2) They're flawless and immortal. That will make someone tend to behave in a condescending manner, and even if they don't, people will be jealous and read it into everything they do.
I really kind of hate elves. I used to like them. They're like that band that you're presently ashamed to admit you once liked.
3) Again, I don't know yet, but it probably isn't worse than Runelords in that regard. I ran that AP over the course of 4 years, and I really did minimal conversion. It turns out that "close enough" works pretty well for GMing, and all the new Pathfinder options really just make a nice home for things you would have added in anyway.
i don't use Hero Labs and most likely never will (i keep my RPGs off the computer as much as possible as we only have one for a family of 4 so i don't get a lot of time with it) i do it the ol' fashioned way with pen and paper
i do have some books as PDFs but don't get to use as much as i would like:) thanks for the suggestion tho:)
im also aware of EXP discrepancies between 3.5 and PFRPG i was just curious as to what level it is for 3.5still waiting to hear if its that bad and if its worth my time and money tho:)
Anote about the Exp discrepencies between 3.5 and PFRPG: The APs kinda out right tell you when your players should level...when they reach that point just tell your player to level and just skipp Exp all together.
Anote about the Exp discrepencies between 3.5 and PFRPG: The APs kinda out right tell you when your players should level...when they reach that point just tell your player to level and just skipp Exp all together.i don't use Hero Labs and most likely never will (i keep my RPGs off the computer as much as possible as we only have one for a family of 4 so i don't get a lot of time with it) i do it the ol' fashioned way with pen and paper
i do have some books as PDFs but don't get to use as much as i would like:) thanks for the suggestion tho:)
im also aware of EXP discrepancies between 3.5 and PFRPG i was just curious as to what level it is for 3.5still waiting to hear if its that bad and if its worth my time and money tho:)
nope, i'm an experience point fan, its nice to have tangible rewards for doing things, i have no problem with your way, just not my cup o' tea
@Mythic Evil Lincoln, i had thought you had it, ran it, or played in it, sorry for my mistake:)
i might get second darkness, if only just for the other articles and gazetteers of Riddleport, Zirnakaynin and The Land of the BlackBlood, and the Drow stuff
@Joana will take that in mind, tho it doesn't sound all that exceptionally bad but thanks for the info, i still have a week or so before my money situation clears up enough to get anything:)
so any more information is always appreciated:)
Let's then build a kickstart to buy the entire stock of the Second Darkness so there is more chance of a collection edition. Remember that a kickstart its not only about the money, but it also shows how much the fans care about something.
Not wanting to give Paizo ideas here (cause I'm sure they already thought of it), but if I were them in this situation I'd just go reprint a few thousand extra copies if that Kickstarter looked popular enough...
Now, you might have a better chance if you asked Paizo management how much money they'd want in order to persuade them to do the collection edition in place of some other book they're currently working on, and use the Kickstarter to raise funds for that instead ;)
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It's not about the money, guys! It's about time and human resources!
Currently Paizo has a full docket for their APs. They have APs planned for the next year, and revamping an old AP takes time and non-monetary resources. If they did another Anniversary Edition it would be at the expense of a future AP or another new product, and it would not even necessarily be a huge seller as Runelords truly was special and helped establish the very WORLD of Golarion.
Probably the only way you could get an Anniversary Edition of one of the other 3.5 APs is to do it yourself, get everything looking as good as possible, and then contacting Paizo and asking Jacobs if he could take a couple minutes to look at it. At which point he might, if he had time, and then could offer suggestions where it should differ or areas that need strengthening. And even then, you'd probably not be paid for your time and effort as you volunteered to do this rather than being contracted to do so.
(Mind you, this is why I never ended up writing a "Homeworld" novel based on Relic's real-time strategy space combat game. I knew writing the entire novel, finding a publisher, and THEN going to Relic and EA (or whoever the software publisher was that worked with Relic) and getting permission was a no-go. That and I'd never been published so my chances of getting something like this printed was non-existent.)
So this isn't about throwing money at Paizo and begging them. This is about the fact they. cannot. divert. resources. to. this. daydream. And no, the customer is NOT always right so don't try tossing that old cliche out there.
@Mythic Evil Lincoln, i had thought you had it, ran it, or played in it, sorry for my mistake:)
i might get second darkness, if only just for the other articles and gazetteers of Riddleport, Zirnakaynin and The Land of the BlackBlood, and the Drow stuff
I was active on the forums during its release (as Toyrobots back then), and I have flipped through some copies at the store and at a friend's house. So I'm not making the leap blindly, I just don't have GM-levels of familiarity with it yet.
i guess i assumed everyone thats been here awhile had experience with Second Darkness i guess lol, its all good tho
i only am able to get one complete AP on sale, so gotta think hard on which one to get, its currently down to Serpent's Skull, Legacy of Fire, or Second Darkness
i've already had and run thru over half of Serpent's Skull (i gave it to my brothers kids) so thats the one i know, and the overall arc of Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness intrigue me.
so i'm kind of torn, i have another week before i can get anything so i have time to think.
LoF is probably my favorite AP.
It has certain flaws, but a lot of ideas on how to fix them in the forums.
It's definitely the most "original" AP I know of. Pathfinder does Harryhausen-style high adventure and mythical monsters very well. Make no mistake, that's the true theme of the AP — the "arabian nights" part is there, but less relevant. It's the Sinbad vs. claymation monsters AP.
LoF is probably my favorite AP.
It has certain flaws, but a lot of ideas on how to fix them in the forums.
It's definitely the most "original" AP I know of. Pathfinder does Harryhausen-style high adventure and mythical monsters very well. Make no mistake, that's the true theme of the AP — the "arabian nights" part is there, but less relevant. It's the Sinbad vs. claymation monsters AP.
LOL - love that description. Love the AP too. For the longest time it was the only desert-themed adventure, but I have high hopes for the Mummy's Mask...
i guess i assumed everyone thats been here awhile had experience with Second Darkness i guess lol, its all good tho
i only am able to get one complete AP on sale, so gotta think hard on which one to get, its currently down to Serpent's Skull, Legacy of Fire, or Second Darkness
i've already had and run thru over half of Serpent's Skull (i gave it to my brothers kids) so thats the one i know, and the overall arc of Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness intrigue me.
so i'm kind of torn, i have another week before i can get anything so i have time to think.
Of those three, I'd definitely recommend Legacy of Fire as well. Top 5 AP for me.
LoF is probably my favorite AP.
It has certain flaws, but a lot of ideas on how to fix them in the forums.
It's definitely the most "original" AP I know of. Pathfinder does Harryhausen-style high adventure and mythical monsters very well. Make no mistake, that's the true theme of the AP — the "arabian nights" part is there, but less relevant. It's the Sinbad vs. claymation monsters AP.
this description is THE best one yet, now strongly considering it! was leaning more towards Serpents Skull but now LoF:)
LOL - love that description. Love the AP too. For the longest time it was the only desert-themed adventure, but I have high hopes for the Mummy's Mask...LoF is probably my favorite AP.
It has certain flaws, but a lot of ideas on how to fix them in the forums.
It's definitely the most "original" AP I know of. Pathfinder does Harryhausen-style high adventure and mythical monsters very well. Make no mistake, that's the true theme of the AP — the "arabian nights" part is there, but less relevant. It's the Sinbad vs. claymation monsters AP.
Mummy's Mask is the one AP other then Skull & Shackles i've wanted to happen more then any other AP and will buy every issue as soon as it is released:)
To echo Lisa's and some other folk's comments... the amount of work that it takes to compile and update a 3.5 AP to the standards we expect of ourselves means that such a project can NOT be undertaken lightly. In fact, it'd take over a year to get it done right, in a way that doesn't burn out employees and create bad blood and have greater costs to Paizo than it can ever likely regain by mere sales.
A project like this is not a question of can we afford to do it, money wise? We can. It's the other currencies that run tight—things like Magic, Labor, Morale, and Influence. We need a LOT more downtime before we can start working on this project! :-P