Hi Guys,
I didn't see a dedicated character thread on Ezren so if there is one, I'll totally delete this and move my response there...
We just finished the Lost Cost campaign. Ezren now gets a skill feat point (and an additional one after the next scenario).
I was hoping you guys wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on where you've dropped those two points in your own game play.
Here's what I was thinking:
(1) First Skill Point
Ezren is an Arcane hound so Intelligence seemed like a natural place to drop a +1. His combat spells (like Force Missile and Lightning Touch) now become 1d12 + 2d4 +3. Also, his recharge is now a +4 (+3 on Arcane and +1 from his feat).
(2) Second Skill Point
This was a little trickier to pick out. The most common roll (besides Intelligence) I seemed to be making is Wisdom so I was leaning towards this one. Yet another Arcane seemed a little over the top and Charisma has just been occasional nuisance.
For his Powers upgrade, I felt increasing his hand size to 7 was actually a little risky in terms of accidental death. Hence, I felt the additional +1 on a recharge check would be delightful.
Care to share your thoughts? Thanks in advance for the Knowledge share.
Ben
His current deck for simple reference:
Weapon: Mace,
Spells: Force Lightning x2, Force Missle x2, Arcane Armor, Invisibility, Glibness, Detect Magic
Items: Amulet of Life, Luckstone, Masterwork Tools
Allies: Acolyte, Sage, and Shalelu Andosana
Given how dependent Ezren is on spells, I think taking your first 2 skill feats to go towards intelligence is not at all a bad idea. All those modifiers really help with recharging spells... and Ezren especially needs to be doing this.
Personally, I would chose power feats that add to his recharge rolls over hand size, at least for a while. Ezren's main combat comes from spells, which are either discarded or recharged. If they are discarded due to a failed check, you're actually making yourself weaker just by engaging in game play.
Also, you may try to pick up some of the arcane combat skills from Burnt Offerings, as they are generally superior to those of the base set/character add on pack. Grabbing mirror image is also highly recommended. I like a dagger on him as well rather than anything else, simply because its's easy to use it, recharge it for an extra die and hopefully draw a spell. Spells should be his main combat option in my view.
For items, a token of remembrance, or a sage's journal would likely serve you better than the luck stone.
It certainly doesn't hurt to help out his recharge ability. That is like more hit points.
Ohhh - good stuff, Captain Bulldozer. Thanks, I'm gonna re-read some of those cards you referenced. I never even thought about the dagger idea.
Viking: Yep - I totally thought about it that way. I just don't like overdoing an ability. Typically my highest recharge is an 8. And now I'll be +4 with a d12 (Intelligence +1, +2 Arcane, and +1 Power Feat). Not to mention that Power Feat will go to +2 in the near future (since I'm not doing hand size). Not to mention what a Luckstone can do if it's in my hand at the time of a near-miss check.
I'm trying to remember what other skill I seem to need to roll on besides Intelligence.
Follow-up question on the dagger advice...
Can Ezren use the dagger and cast a spell like Force Missle in the same combat turn? Assuming no because one of those isn't adding to the overall check.
Thanks,
Ben
The dagger would be for use strictly when you don't have a combat spell in hand (you can't use both an attack spell and a weapon for the same check). Ezren's Strength and Dexterity dice are mediocre, so most weapons will be pretty unspectacular on him. The point of the dagger is that you can freely recharge it (instead of discarding like most other weapons) to add a second die. Ezren attacking with a dagger would be rolling 1d6 + 2d4; not a great roll, but it has an expected value of a 8.5, which is enough to tackle some of the smaller threats. It's also a higher value than you'd get from just about all the other strength/dexterity based weapons (without having to discard the weapon anyway) that don't require proficiency.
As for the wand of force missile, my understanding is that you couldn't use it with either a weapon, nor with an attack spell. It's not a bad card to have for Ezren, there are probably more useful items out there for him, given his relatively small item card limit.
Ah, ok - makes sense.
I had to use a Mace the other day and that went rather well. That's what I've been carrying (to also get the undead bonus). I'm quite intrigued by the dagger though.
Hmmmmmmmm
Ezren with a mace gives you a combat roll of 1d6+1d8 (without discarding the mace) which has an expected value of 8, and a range of 2-14. If you discard the mace, you get to add 1d4, increasing the expected value to 10.5 and the range to 3-18. Its not too bad, but works best when you have to discard the weapon.
With the dagger, if you recharge it, you get 1d6 + 2d4, for an expected value of 8.5 and a range of 3-14. Both weapons are reasonable choices, but the dagger is one that helps you cycle through your deck, which certainly has its advantages.
Mace is also bludgeoning, which is better against skeletons. Those piercing and slashing weapons like daggers have a tendency to go right between their ribs.
I had a few tweaks on my spells today. Dumped Arcane Armor in exchange for a second Detect Magic (love that spell). I had a shot to keep the +1 Dagger but decided on keep the poor-man's mace for that unfortunate skeleton encounter. And I can only throw that dagger if I'm attacking with another weapon and that just doesn't happen with one-weapon Ezren.
I'm still wondering if the boost in Intelligence was the best use of my second skill point...but the more I think of it, Ezren is alllll about the spell recharge and even at prior +4, it seems pushing that to +5 here is worth it on those Arcane 8 recharges.
So now it's: Intelligence +2, Arcane +2, +1 Power Feat recharge ability. That seems delightful. Plus, I can make that recharge Power Feat a +1 in the somewhat near future (for a +6 total - wow).
I'm still hoping to acquire a Toad ally and an Augury spell (which seems insanely elusive for me).
Thanks in advance for the character chatter,
Ben
I've been playing Ezren and struggled with the same questions... ultimately I decided to with Int +2, Arcane +2, +1 recharge... but I feel like I should've used one of them on Dex or Wis... The hardest recharge so far is 8 and only on a few cards that I could easily get back out the discard with other cards.
I usually get into trouble with barriers, so I'm kindof leaning toward Dex since I'm wanting to keep items/allies other than theives tools/burgler.
Does anyone know how high the recharge checks are going to be for spells acquired in Skinsaw? That would definately influence my decision.
Eric
I don't know why you would bump up a d12+2 when there are so many important d6 checks that need bumping up desperately, but that is just how I decided to go about it. I can understand your logic though. However, that +1 to the recharge power is just a must have basically because there isn't a better option to choose as 6 cards is plenty.
I don't know why you'd spend precious improvement points on things that are secondary to your primary role, which for Ezren is casting spells. Int makes him better at combat, one of two primary challenges in the game? Check. (for reference, explores per blessing deck turn is the other one, and none of the attributes can help with that). It helps him recharge his spells, which if he fails, he has to lose an explore and a card to recharge it with his power? Check. Until you can succeed on those things even on a roll of 1, you're seeing the same decrease in failure rate as you are if you raise something you're awful at. So what are you going to do more, cast spells or acquire allies? Cast spells or acquire blessings (which you can never keep in your deck anyway)? Cast spells or pick up armor? Cast spells or make survival checks?
With his giant hand size (a lot to lose, that is) and his complete inability to reliably have and use blessings in really tough combats (villains, sandpoint devils, whatever), it's even more important for him to have the biggest combat check he can manage.
Then again, different strokes for different folks. And by strokes I mean tactics.
Not to fuss overly much, but what d6 checks are so important for Ezren? I would imagine wisdom is important to pick up blessings during play (and is a d8 already) for overall backup power, and charisma to get allies to get extra explores which he's a little lacking in (and is a d4). d6 is the domain of weapons and armor, and random obstacle checks.
Jaunt wrote: It helps him recharge his spells, which if he fails, he has to lose an explore and a card to recharge it with his power? Check. Thanks, guys. I really enjoy hearing the different opinions and tactics.
Jaunt: It sounds like we totally have a similiar play style. A +1 on iffy checks just doesn't do it for me (especially with a Monk in my party who can play a blessing for me).
You lost me on that recharge note above. Can you clarify that one? Is that from a role card?
Also, a real strong recharge now, might also nudge me to take the larger hand size on my next power feat upgrade (since I'll less to worry about in terms of refilling my hand).
Thanks,
Ben
My bad, I was going off the old playtest version of Ezren. I hardly play him so the different versions kind of blur together for me. The fact that he doesn't have a Lem-like spell retrieval ability just makes it even more important for him to not blow his recharge check.
Considering his d6's are for Dexterity and Charisma, I view those as critically important as you run across those all the time. Plus, getting any of those allies to give an extra explore is vital for him especially since he's in a 6-character party.
As soon as I keep failing combat checks by 1, I'll reconsider my non-d12 skill distributions. I mean giving him a +1 on recharge rolls with that going to +2 next power gain as much more important than boosting his attack roll. I mean he's going to roll a min. of 5 on spells already (3 dice +2 with his arcane bonus). If you're rolling all 1's, skill points won't save you.
My bad again, the old version had Ezren at d4 cha. Even so, going from a 3.5 average to a 4.5 average isn't going to significantly affect your chances of recruiting an ally (specifically, it'll add another +1 in 6 chance). And allies aren't something you spend blessings on (not that Ezren has any, but the party may) because an ally for a blessing is a wash, explorationwise.
But yeah, typically I make more combat checks per game than charisma checks. And losing a combat check costs me more than one exploration.
I guess your argument is you fail charisma checks by 1 more often than you fail combat checks by 1? I'm not saying you should be able to win combats on rolls of 1. If you have an average roll of d12+2+2d4 that's only going to be 13.5. You're not beating the hardest encounters on average, and if you roll a bit below average, you're in trouble from even medium encounters. Shifting the bell curve up by 1 or 2 will still show noticeable improvement.
Also, since you seem to agree recharging spells is important, that's another reason to take int over cha. On the other hand, if you just want to cast spells and easily pick up allies, well, that's why I prefer Seoni.
Hey there Kysmartman,
Yeah, I just haven't been missing those D6s by one. I often have to roll a 6 on a six to succeed at those sorta checks. So, the +1 on Dex or Charisma just seems like a minimum impact.
However, I do feel losing an attack spell on a bad recharge roll is a heavy blow (especially if I go with a bigger hand size at some point).
Plus, I'm in a two-man game with Sajan (and his blessing library of glee). I also have already acquired great allies and have two Detect Magics to scout in advance (in case the monk has to slide over to grab the top card for me).
Still, I totally respect your angle and feedback. I've just been watching my game play over the last 3 games and those other checks you mentioned rarely came up. And when I did need to make them, I just got a blessing put down to aid my check by my co-player or he hopped over to get the card for me on his turn.
Side Note: I was also lucky enough to get Masterwork Tools and that's made barriers very doable for me.
Jaunt is playing crazy similar to me right now so I'm gonna try his advice and will share how that goes in this character thread.
Jaunt: the +2 on the recharge or the larger hand size will be a tough call when that power feat reward comes up. I think I'm gonna go larger hand size (so I can get more spells in my hand and they'll be easier to recharge).
Thanks again,
Ben
Drop Ezren and swith to Seoni, just 10 times better.
You have to develop a strategy for Ezren that allows you to explore multiple times and clear out locations. Using Detect Magic / Augury is one such strategy; Charm Person also allows you to get an extra ally for the scenario. Later on, it looks like Invisibility and other evade spells will accomplish the same thing Augury does by putting those monsters at the bottom of the deck, if Ezren goes the "Illusionist" route. It also depends quite a bit on what other characters are in the game. With one of the divine casters on-hand, you might not need Wisdom, but if the rest of the party includes Lem for the healer and other fighters, then Ezren might have the highest Wisdom in the game.
All of this, of course, requires a bit more finesse and strategy than Seoni, which doesn't make her "better" so much as it makes him a character which requires more skill to play.
I don't understand how you can say "I have to get a 6 on a d6" yet add "so that +1 has minimal impact". You've just doubled your chance of getting that card! Since we're focusing on allies, getting an ally that gives an extra explore is huge for him.
The entire game is based on figuring out how many blessings you need to add to defeat banes. If I know all I have to do is roll 3 twos on the basic spells to kill an Combat 8 monster, that's plenty good enough for me. Once you get to the really bad monsters and villains, well you're going to be adding at least one blessing anyway so that +1 does very little.
However, if you now doubled your chance of getting a lot of the allies without using a blessing (agreed that's a poor trade unless the ally is really, really awesome), that just added a hitpoint to Ezren and/or gave him an extra explore. The Dexterity +1 gives him a floor of 3 when you use a blessing which given most of the dex checks in the base game are 8 or 9 is improving a whole lot too.
Again, the great thing about the game is that we can all do things differently. So have fun with Ezren. I'm not going to debate Ezren vs Seoni as they each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
The trouble is much more than ofter you have to roll a 8 or 9 with a D6, then a +1 doesn't do that much good.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
With the next expansion deck you will likely get access to the Haste spell. If it works like the playtest version, it allows for an extra exploration. This is a great card for Ezren.
Going from 1% to 2% would also be a doubling, but not worth my time. You have to consider the delta between per-game benefit of d6 cha and per-game benefit of d6+1 cha. Which means average number of allies you encounter per game as Ezren (and you're going to the high spell/item locations for his extra explores, right? Anything else is counter-synergy), times the fraction of allies that give the extra explores (or otherwise don't suck). Then compare that to how many times the same delta of the scores for combat, recharging, and acquiring spells.
If that still shakes out in favor of cha to you, more power to you. There are worse things in the world than a free explore every three games or so.
Hi guys,
For more discussion fun...I just got the power feat reward for Ezren today.
I chose the hand size bump to seven. I know it's a little risky if he takes a big combat damage hit but I already have a recharge of +5 (base Intel +2, arcane +2 and the initial charge bonus of +1).
I figured an increased hand size of 7 helps me get another attack spell at the ready (especially handy on that additional explore).
What did y'all do with that power feat?
Ben
I don't get it... Did you get 2 power feats? I've only come across one, which I chose the +1 recharge as opposed to the increased hand size. How did you get both the charge bonus and the extra card?
Oh sorry - I don't mean to imply that I've used two power feats.
His original power feat adds one to a spell re-charge. I put both skill point bumps into Intelligence. And Ezren already has Arcane Intelligence +2. So that's 1 (original power feat) + 2 (Intelligence) and +2 (Arcane) = +5 on any recharge.
So my power feat choice is hand size to seven or moving the recharge up an additional one.
Hard to explain better as I don't have the cards in front of me but I hope that makes sense.
Nathaniel Gousset wrote: The trouble is much more than ofter you have to roll a 8 or 9 with a D6, then a +1 doesn't do that much good. Exactly, Nathaniel!
Cheez wrote: His original power feat adds one to a spell re-charge. What do you mean by his original power feat... Do we get to pick a power feat when we create the character? Maybe I missed that.
I've played through all the available material with ezren and have +2 int (skill feats), +2 arcane( inherent), +1 recharge(power feat) and 9 spells(card feat)... If I should have +2 recharge somehow it would be nice, but I can't figure how you got it.
There is no initial power feat.
I also see a lot of people using the advanced classes from the start.
Yeah, I'm lost. What "original power feat"? There's only one power feat available when playing through the currently published scenarios, though adventure deck 2 should start reaching subscribers any day now.
As for the question of which to take for Ezren, I'll go with the bonus to recharge every time. More than 6 in hand just isn't necessary, and can be a little risky with current deck sizes, for any character.
What card feat would you take... I decided on the extra spell, because I acquired 2 augeries, 2 scorching rays, so I needed the room for mirror image, invis, speed, 2 lightning touch... I almost aquired a second staff of minor healing but which would've made this a tough decsion, since I have the sihedron medallion, token of remembrance and staff of minor healing already.
Starting to feel pretty good about Ezren... I was having a tough go in the beginning, but now I'm playing with much less fear of death... except that I have much more to lose now.
Personally, I would add Detect Magics to get a good combo for Ezren. Since the FAQ states that the Recharge on Detect Magic is supposed to be 4 instead of 14, you can make him one awesome Diviner.
If you've got two Auguries, you can stack spells on top of the deck consistently and then use Detect Magic to get another encounter. Since he will likely acquire a spell, you can keep exploring and getting the spells. Since you replace Augury and Detect magic in your hand by drawing new cards, you should be set up for a combat by the time you get through the spells on top.
Looking down the road for Ezren the Evoker one of his power feats states:
"[]Add 2 to your Arcane check with the Force ([]or Acid and Cold) ([]or Electricity and Fire) trait(s)."
I'm assuming this is suppose to read: ...with the Force ([]or Acid or Cold) ([] or Electricity or Fire)?
J Mann - Good suggestion, if I come across Detect Magic, I'll keep it and drop speed... I suppose.
Drunkenping - I'm assuming the card reads correctly, which is why I chose to keep lightning touch (instead of force missle), which combos with scorching ray when I get the Electricity AND Fire bonus.
One thing I'm unsure of, which has probably been answered somewhere, is do I have check the Force box first, then the Acid and Cold, then the Electricity and Fire? Or could I use my first feat to go straight to Electricity and Fire?
The "or" made me think I could choose any of them, but I'm not 100%.
Drunkenping wrote: Looking down the road for Ezren the Evoker one of his power feats states:
"[]Add 2 to your Arcane check with the Force ([]or Acid and Cold) ([]or Electricity and Fire) trait(s)."
I'm assuming this is suppose to read: ...with the Force ([]or Acid or Cold) ([] or Electricity or Fire)?
Without opening the tricky question of whether or not the English common "or" is exclusive, I will say that the one feat increases checks with any combination of Force, Acid, and Cold traits (or instead Force, Electricity, and Fire traits), as long as at least one of the traits is present.
Hope that helps!
Nathaniel Gousset wrote: There is no initial power feat. Ack!!! Sorry about that guys...I was misreading. Y'all are right - Ezren has to pick between the increasing his hand size to seven OR 1 to his recharge.
I played with a hand size of seven today during our work lunch and boy oh boy that was swell. I also have two of the Acolyte allies in his deck so I think I'm not as concerned on recharging those trickier 8 checks (like Augury).
Still - recharge is everything to ol' Ezren so Fromper is right, picking recharge is better/wiser.
Here's his deck heading into the last Thistletop scenario:
Weapon: Heavy Crossbow (he passes it to Sajan early on in the game in exchange for the Ilsoari Ally (which goes great with Ezren's invisibility spell if a 1 comes up on a 1d12). A little sneaky but we can't help it:)
Spells: Augury, Detect Magic, Force Missile x2, Force Lightening x2, Invisibility, Scorching Ray
Items: Amulet of Life (love that recharge), Luckstone, Masterwork Tools
Allies: Acolyte x2, Shalelu Andosana
Thanks for the chatter guys,
Ben
Chad Brown wrote: Drunkenping wrote: Looking down the road for Ezren the Evoker one of his power feats states:
"[]Add 2 to your Arcane check with the Force ([]or Acid and Cold) ([]or Electricity and Fire) trait(s)."
I'm assuming this is suppose to read: ...with the Force ([]or Acid or Cold) ([] or Electricity or Fire)?
Without opening the tricky question of whether or not the English common "or" is exclusive, I will say that the one feat increases checks with any combination of Force, Acid, and Cold traits (or instead Force, Electricity, and Fire traits), as long as at least one of the traits is present.
Hope that helps! Thanks Chad... One follow up question. If my first feat gives me bonus for Force, acid and cold traits (or force, electricity and fire) could my second feat then add electricity and fire(or acid and cold)?
Now that I read the card more carefully it seems to suggest that my first feat would give me force alone, then my second feat I could chose between the addition of cold and acid or electricity and fire and my third feat making me a complete stud at everything...And yes I only have a chance of studliness through PACG.
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