Pathfinder should be a TV show


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Am I the only person who's ever thought that a Pathfinder campaign would be a great topic for a live action TV show? I mean a presentation of a campaign itself, not gamers playing the game (although perhaps at points that outside reality could be obliquely referred to.) I'd love to see Paizo work with a solid TV production company to do a version of one of the Adventure Paths in particular, whether exactly as written or with changes so as not to spoil it for people who hadn't run it themselves. But I think it would work best to take one of the paths that hasn't been so popular, maybe even one of the few that hasn't been updated from 3.5 to Pathfinder, since that's probably going to get less play anyway. Looked at that way, Second Darkness would probably be best, since elves and drow would probably be sexy and a big draw for a lot of people anyway. But it seems to me that the episodic nature of TV would work brilliantly with TV, as would the large casts you'd need for lots of minor characters, and it wouldn't even necessarily be that big a deal if PC's had to be replaced along the way, just as PC's die and get replaced with a new character in a normal campaign anyway. I think the success of big fantasy films and shows like GoT shows that there's a market out there for high fantasy, and this could also be a great way to get new players into the game. They could run it with the iconics (and honestly, who doesn't want to see Seoni, Merisiel, Freya, and any number of other iconics as flesh and blood people?) or with brand new characters no one has heard of before. I'd be thrilled to watch a show like this. What do the rest of you think?


Do you mean like the webcomics "Order of the Stick" or "Goblins" where the characters are aware that they live in a world governed by game rules, and there are such things as player characters and non-player characters?


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Crap... I wanted to see a movie version of Hook Mountain Massacre.

Liberty's Edge

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Just make it a cartoon show and you will have a whole generation of kids growing up talking about how in the day they used to watch Pathfinder Adventures every Saturday morning on TV. Soon enough those kids will be playing table top RPG's and again talking about their adventures they shared.

Then they will get older and meet women and forget about Pathfinder for awhile, it happens. Later, as they get yet older still and now have money, they will see a Pathfinder product on the shelf and pick it up, remembering all those good old adventures on TV and around the table, and they will play it again!

You can thank me later!

P.S. No seriously, make a TV cartoon for Cartoon Network, it's a no brainer. I will personally pitch in for funding it on Kickstarter if you do.


@Threeshades, no I wasn't thinking of anything that overt. Maybe just a reference now and then to one of the characters feeling once in a while like he's not the one making the most important choices in his life, that some other hand is guiding him, that sort of thing. But hey, if they were to actually make this sort of program, I'll be happy so long as it's quality, and I'm not going to be picky about a lot of choices!

@Sissyl, I think RotR could make a great series too, but if I were Paizo I wouldn't want to make effectively a massive spoiler that would ruin the surprises of the AP for every viewer that watched it. Since Second Darkness is still in 3.5 format, I just imagine that it's going to get played a lot less going forward. Plus, drow are still a thing for a lot of people.

@Ellestil, I used to love the original Dungeons and Dragons cartoon when I was a kid, and I don't see any reason that phenomenon couldn't be repeated today. But I still would like to see a live-action series that could include mature content, as any serious treatment of drow would have to. Not to mention that the iconics could be a completely different experience in a show for adults O.O

Liberty's Edge

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Cartoon version with a serious side like the Clone Wars cartoon would be amazing. In fact when I watched the Clone Wars for the first time a light-bulb went off in my head saying, "Thats how you run a Star Wars RPG game!". After that I ran off to the FLGS and picked up the SAGA edition and ran one of the best homebrews of my 30+ years of gaming.

If Paizo could get a cartoon like that out, I reckon it would go a far way in exciting a new generation to play.


But what about the pro-social message?


@ Sissyl, you're going to need to help me out, I'm not sure what you're referencing. And if I'm missing an obvious joke, insert <facepalm> here.


I think an animated adaptation would be really cool. It'd certainly make up for the weirdness that was the 1980's D&d cartoon.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Rise of the Runelords would make a great TV show, and then at about season 2 have a Jade Regent spin-off.


The D&D cartoon of the 80s had a firm rule that every episode had to have a pro-social message. This took the form of Eric the Cavalier, the only one of the heroes who showed some brains, willingness to question the group consensus and so on, was ALWAYS shown to be wrong, and more or less humiliated for doubting the group. The writers hated this, but it was the age of D&D=satanism, and the company didn't want to risk it.


I can imagine the 2010s version of the pro-social message being more like: a group of Pathfinder characters all arguing with one another constantly, blaming each other, and basically proving that the majority of human beings are jerks that just can't get along. Each episode would end with how they manage to get defeated by the villain because of their inability to co-operate, with each one attempting to grab the most glory for themselves at the expense of their companions.

We could call it the anti-social message.


I hated the 80s cartoon with a deep, deep loathing .

It discredited so many gamers amoungst their peers at the time and actually disuaded many of my friends from trying the game -not only that, but setting an image with my father that jt was "just for kids", an image that persists to this day, despite the fact I'm in my forties.


Sissyl wrote:
The D&D cartoon of the 80s had a firm rule that every episode had to have a pro-social message. This took the form of Eric the Cavalier, the only one of the heroes who showed some brains, willingness to question the group consensus and so on, was ALWAYS shown to be wrong, and more or less humiliated for doubting the group. The writers hated this, but it was the age of D&D=satanism, and the company didn't want to risk it.

seems like both the writers and the people who enforced the PSA messages in the show did something wrong.


BRIAN BLESSED has to play Harsk.


Okay, I agree it should be animated, but why should it be for kids?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:
Am I the only person who's ever thought that a Pathfinder campaign would be a great topic for a live action TV show?

Hopefully, yes. Judging from the past success rate of translating D+D to live action, it would probably wind up being as James May would put it.. "the bloody awful". It's never translated well, probably because producers have always concentrated on preseenting so much "game stuff" to please gaming fans, that the story and acting wound up taking low priorities.


LazarX wrote:
Cleanthes wrote:
Am I the only person who's ever thought that a Pathfinder campaign would be a great topic for a live action TV show?
Hopefully, yes. Judging from the past success rate of translating D+D to live action, it would probably wind up being as James May would put it.. "the bloody awful". It's never translated well, probably because producers have always concentrated on preseenting so much "game stuff" to please gaming fans, that the story and acting wound up taking low priorities.

I agree, past live action D&D productions have been underwhelming. And I remember the disappointment that was palpable in the way the editors of Dragon magazine reacted at the time the first foul, steaming turd that was the first D&D movie arrived. But the people who run Paizo now are the same people who edited Dragon then, and I'm am confident they have the same priorities and (roughly) the same tastes that I have. (Mr. Jacobs adores bizarre tentacled creatures man was not meant to know more than I do.) So I think Paizo may be the company that has the heart and brains to finally get it right. Which is intended as high praise.


Cleanthes wrote:
Mr. Jacobs adores bizarre tentacled creatures man was not meant to know more than I do.

Heck, I think he may actually be one of them.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Rise of the Runelords would make a great TV show, and then at about season 2 have a Jade Regent spin-off.

I'm not sure you could fit all of Rise of the Runelords into a single season. I'm even less sure that you could make a kid-appropriate cartoon out of the Hook Mountain Massacre.


I have no objection to an animated Pathfinder show, and as a fan of anime, I know very well that "animated" doesn't have to mean "just for kids". But one of the great things about this sort of RPG is that it can be used to tell all kinds of stories, some of them suitable for kids, some not. Personally, I'd like to see a Pathfinder show that's maybe not as hardcore as GoT, but which pushes further than your average kids' show. But most of all I'd like it to have strong production values, excellent writers, well-developed and complex characters, and a long-term plan for development. Anyone who loves this game knows that it's capable of producing a great story of this sort, and it would be a wonderful tool for drawing more people to the gaming table too.

Verdant Wheel

The 80s cartoon was a great hit in Brazil, everyone loved the cartoon and he rerun from time to time still of today. Unfortunatly he was called Dragon's Cave (Caverna do Dragão) here and very feel people know that is based in D&D.

I really can't understand why there aren't more shows about fantasy adventures (even cartoons), the japonese do a lot more about european fantasy tha USA. Do people fear D&D that much ?

Dark Archive

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IF Paizo was to do a cartoon or live-action series, it would rock.

Why?

Because Lisa wouldn't let it see the light of day if it didn't.

I have come to trust the judgment of Lisa Stevens and her team.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
spectrevk wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Rise of the Runelords would make a great TV show, and then at about season 2 have a Jade Regent spin-off.
I'm not sure you could fit all of Rise of the Runelords into a single season. I'm even less sure that you could make a kid-appropriate cartoon out of the Hook Mountain Massacre.

Season 1 would be Burnt Offerings, then Ameiko leaves at the end of Burnt Offerings to do her own thing.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I've been thinking along these lines lately too.

How cool would a few APs converted into film or television? Very!

I'd have to say Sarah Shahi would make an good Kyra.

Liberty's Edge

After growing up watching the D&D cartoon, I was absolutely disappointed by the movie. More recently, the Dragonlance movie... yeah. It still hurts to think about it.

If Paizo were to do a Pathfinder cartoon... I know I would finally not be disappointed.


Look, beholder! A ROCK! *throws rock away, beholder in hot pursuit*

...

...

(Oh for f~!*'s sake!!!)

I will now mind control you with my awesome blue ear-tentacles!!!

(... error... does not compute...)


I would certainly love a pathfinder cartoon, but please no meta gaming, or if it has to have meta gaming then make it a comedy.

It certainly can't be for kids, I'd say most, if not all, of the APs don't seem suitable for children.

Also? I have a strong feeling it's gonna happen (either show or animation (most likely animation)), why? They're already working on an audio book of RotRL, they've got novels and comics, where else could they possibly branch out to? They've done a board game, APs for long term adventuring, modules for short term adventuring, scenarios for both events and single sessions and I'd say yes, I'm pretty sure we can look forward to this (unless they've got a video game in mind first).

I haven't gotten too far into the comics, but I'm hoping the stories (and characters) will be more serious, developed and mature than in the comics.

Additionally? I'm REALLY looking forward to the audio books!

Liberty's Edge

cmastah wrote:
Also? I have a strong feeling it's gonna happen (either show or animation (most likely animation)), why? They're already working on an audio book of RotRL, they've got novels and comics, where else could they possibly branch out to? They've done a board game, APs for long term adventuring, modules for short term adventuring, scenarios for both events and single sessions and I'd say yes, I'm pretty sure we can look forward to this (unless they've got a video game in mind first).

Well, there's this rather hush-hush little project they're working on called Pathfinder Online...

Novels, comics, an MMORPG... a cartoon is really the next logical step.


lordzack wrote:
Okay, I agree it should be animated, but why should it be for kids?

To build the next generation of gamers, of course.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:
I have no objection to an animated Pathfinder show, and as a fan of anime, I know very well that "animated" doesn't have to mean "just for kids".

It's still pretty much the perception of Americans that Animation is strictly children's fare. Look up the term "Animation Ghetton" on TV Tropes sometime. It's pretty much the reason why the best animation is generally (although not always) foreign made.

Paizo Employee CEO

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Justin Sluder wrote:

IF Paizo was to do a cartoon or live-action series, it would rock.

Why?

Because Lisa wouldn't let it see the light of day if it didn't.

I have come to trust the judgment of Lisa Stevens and her team.

That is very true. The reason you haven't seen a TV show or a movie is because I am extremely picky about who would do it. I have to be 100% sure of the quality of a licensed product before I hit the button to license Pathfinder.

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Justin Sluder wrote:

IF Paizo was to do a cartoon or live-action series, it would rock.

Why?

Because Lisa wouldn't let it see the light of day if it didn't.

I have come to trust the judgment of Lisa Stevens and her team.

That is very true. The reason you haven't seen a TV show or a movie is because I am extremely picky about who would do it. I have to be 100% sure of the quality of a licensed product before I hit the button to license Pathfinder.

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Television and movies are rather expensive risks to undertake. Unlike an audiobook, or a game like Pathfinder Online, a movie or TV show would actually have to have an appeal to an audience outside your usual comfort zone. I suspect that's why the previous efforts have been such failures, there was practically nothing to like about them, if you weren't obsessed fans of the material it was derived from.


Lisa Stevens wrote:


So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Hey I know! How about Uwe Boll?! :D

@LazarX, I think even obsessed fans cringed on that movie, finding very little joy in the small things that were accurate to the system. I actually found the second movie though to be pretty decent in comparison.


Lisa Stevens wrote:
Justin Sluder wrote:

IF Paizo was to do a cartoon or live-action series, it would rock.

Why?

Because Lisa wouldn't let it see the light of day if it didn't.

I have come to trust the judgment of Lisa Stevens and her team.

That is very true. The reason you haven't seen a TV show or a movie is because I am extremely picky about who would do it. I have to be 100% sure of the quality of a licensed product before I hit the button to license Pathfinder.

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

But "still looking" implies "looking", which is good news in and of itself :)

I think the problem with the earlier movies was that their focus was entirely on special effects and banging us over the head with classic fantasy tropes, handled in the most ham-handed and brute ways imaginable. The reason that, by comparison, a really successful fantasy series like The Lord of the Rings worked was that, while also having the spectacle and fancy special effects, at a more basic level Tolkein supplied it with a soul -- with characters that had depth and real humanity (well, hobbitity anyway)and with issues and themes that resonate with people outside the fantasy genre. The thing that would make or break a show like this is the writers they found for it. They'd have to be writers with soul. Seoni's cleavage would only carry a show so far.


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This conversation makes me think of the Pirates of Darkwater. That was a good fantasy cartoon. Shame it got canceled and the quality dropped off half way through. :/

Contributor

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Lisa Stevens wrote:

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Well, Studio MIR did the animation for Legend of Korra. Their work is beautiful and leagues above most animation studios. If a cartoon is what you want, that's the studio I would recommend.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
donato wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Well, Studio MIR did the animation for Legend of Korra. Their work is beautiful and leagues above most animation studios. If a cartoon is what you want, that's the studio I would recommend.

Problem is I really don't see a Pathfinder cartoon as something suitable for Nickelodeon, and face it... you can't sell an animated feature aimed at adults in America.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
donato wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Well, Studio MIR did the animation for Legend of Korra. Their work is beautiful and leagues above most animation studios. If a cartoon is what you want, that's the studio I would recommend.
Problem is I really don't see a Pathfinder cartoon as something suitable for Nickelodeon, and face it... you can't sell an animated feature aimed at adults in America.

See I disagree, I think you can have a kids/teens version of the Pathfinder universe. The same way you could have a kids/teens version of Wolverine.

You just cut back on the gore, and push up on the adventure and excitement. Goblins make great comic relief.

Grand Lodge

personally the best way to go about doing a tv show, live action or otherwise, is to make the main character(s) a part of the pathfinder society. you select two people to be main characters of the show, mostly they would need to be complete opposites that uniquely complement each other's skill sets. then add in other support characters as appropriate to fill out the supporting cast rolls. having both main characters part of the society means that unless both actors decide to stop playing the characters at the same time the story can continue by the patfinder-Captain assigning a new "partner" to the roll. also it gives the show a reason to run around Golarian and go to anyplace the story needs them to go.


I am not sure if it would catch on or not, but I'm basically neutral towards a Pathfinder show.


Constructacon wrote:
personally the best way to go about doing a tv show, live action or otherwise, is to make the main character(s) a part of the pathfinder society. you select two people to be main characters of the show, mostly they would need to be complete opposites that uniquely complement each other's skill sets. then add in other support characters as appropriate to fill out the supporting cast rolls. having both main characters part of the society means that unless both actors decide to stop playing the characters at the same time the story can continue by the patfinder-Captain assigning a new "partner" to the roll. also it gives the show a reason to run around Golarian and go to anyplace the story needs them to go.

I disagree. There should be four main characters. The traditional gaming group size is four people. There's the fantastic four, four musketeers, four elements, four humors, four teenage mutant ninja turtles, etc. It's all about four. ;)


LazarX wrote:
donato wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

So far, still looking...

-Lisa

Well, Studio MIR did the animation for Legend of Korra. Their work is beautiful and leagues above most animation studios. If a cartoon is what you want, that's the studio I would recommend.
Problem is I really don't see a Pathfinder cartoon as something suitable for Nickelodeon, and face it... you can't sell an animated feature aimed at adults in America.

Adult Swim would like a word with you...

Regarding cast size, I think 5 would be perfect. It's a good number, and it's worked for lots of shows before (e.g. every sentai show ever, even TMNT usually had a fifth support character in the episode like April, Casey Jones, or Splinter). The iconics are already pretty well defined. Valeros, Seoni, Merisiel, Kyra, and Ezren would be an ideal starting group. Over time they could swap out with other characters as necessary (Seoni stays behind with a Varisian clan to help them rebuild, Ezren has to stay in Absolom for his PFS exam, etc.) to give characters like Lini, Lem, and Amiri a chance to shine.


I'd say that they could probably make a kid friendly version of pathfinder cartoons by making them about goblins but PF goblins are 50% wacky fun, 50% people unfriendly.

Alternatively, I'd like to see a show where the main characters are actually kids who WANT to be pathfinders when they grow up and the show follows them on their adventures. Golarion can be a pretty deadly place (actually, any fantasy realm can be a pretty dangerous place), they can find themselves in lairs and such, being forced to use their brains to defeat foes leagues more powerful than they are (I'm picturing kids luring a medusa under a heavy boulder (which gets crushed by it), perhaps getting one of their numbers turned to stone and one of the kids remembering a rumor he'd heard about how medusa blood can reverse petrification or perhaps the blood seeps across the floor to the statue). Heck, we can see their pained and difficult lives unfold as part of the story and not merely their adventures (for example one of their numbers could be an orphan living on the streets, stealing food to live and being beaten frequently for it), oh, did I mention I don't mean for this to be a kids show in this specific example (although it could be, astro boy was directed at children and used to have themes of slavery, death, tyranny and other such mature things)?

The Exchange

Arikiel wrote:
Constructacon wrote:
personally the best way to go about doing a tv show, live action or otherwise, is to make the main character(s) a part of the pathfinder society. you select two people to be main characters of the show, mostly they would need to be complete opposites that uniquely complement each other's skill sets. then add in other support characters as appropriate to fill out the supporting cast rolls. having both main characters part of the society means that unless both actors decide to stop playing the characters at the same time the story can continue by the patfinder-Captain assigning a new "partner" to the roll. also it gives the show a reason to run around Golarian and go to anyplace the story needs them to go.
I disagree. There should be four main characters. The traditional gaming group size is four people. There's the fantastic four, four musketeers, four elements, four humors, four teenage mutant ninja turtles, etc. It's all about four. ;)

Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis... :)


I'm really torn about whether I'd rather see a Pathfinder show pitched at an audience like myself (more mature -- something along the level of adultness of Firefly would probably be the sweet spot for me) or something pitched at a younger crowd where explicit violence and sexuality would be dialed back. I think I could enjoy either, but obviously the former would be more my personal preference, and the latter would be what I think would be best for growing the brand. But if they ever made a show directed at kids, I think Paizo would also be smart to put out more modules and an AP or two that tone down the horror elements. I would never run kids through most of the existing AP's because of the level of creepiness some elements of them reach. But then, I think they'd be smart to put out some milder stuff with or without a TV show :-)


Well, if the show centered around Pathfinders, I think you could get a good "monster of the week" or short arc thing going on. With something like Pathfinder, the more diversity the better. Pathfinder's could be sent on different jobs frequently much like The X-Files.

Grand Lodge

I agree with the idea of a cartoon. One that definitely straddles that maturity line, like Symbionic Titan, or Avatar. So you can have late teens to adults watch it. If it does focus on the signature characters I really hope Paizo fights to keep the things they established in the comics(like Kyra and Meri's romance). Though I'd actually prefer to see all new characters.


The thing about Pathfinder becoming a TV show or movie is that there would have to be a broader appeal to more than just the converted. People are fickle about what they like. Also, the folks that play it have different ideas about what would make a good Pathfinder show or film. What you find appealing in Pathfinder may be very different in what I like. Heck, the theme of an AP divides players and GMs at times. I think that to enter into the milieu of television or film would be a mistake for Pathfinder because it's not directed at a mass market. Shows like Once Upon A Time works on a major network because they deal with characters that most everyone knows with a spin. Pathfinder, I think would be a hard sell.

Grand Lodge

Arikiel wrote:
There should be four main characters. The traditional gaming group size is four people. There's the fantastic four, four musketeers, four elements, four humors, four teenage mutant ninja turtles, etc. It's all about four. ;)

Facinating discussion on that topic.

But don't forget Power Rangers, and the group of five... Although that could be due to the Eastern distrust of the number 4...

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